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  • #91
    Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
    Maybe. Either way. He is never really a free agent. Giants always get to match any offer that Cruz signs. And if they chose not to match they get a first round pick in compensation.
    True. We seem to both agree that he ends up signing a tender for 2013 anyway. His future past next season is up in the air.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
      You've said before you'd rather that scenario but I always prefer the known performer to the "who will we get" unknown.
      Everyone can be replaced. A first round pick plus an additional $10 or so million of cap room is not all that bad

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      • #93
        Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
        True. We seem to both agree that he ends up signing a tender for 2013 anyway. His future past next season is up in the air.
        Unless all he gets are average deals as an RFA and signs one of them. Then the giants match and keep him for average money.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
          I already explained this to you. Saying "total money means nothing" is the equivalent of telling a sales person that his base salary is all that matters and commission means nothing.

          Players absolutely make substantial money above what they are guaranteed.

          Since you ignored my Eli example. Lets try with another player. Boley.

          Boley has 1 year left and may be released before he is paid his 4.5 base salary.

          Means he has only made the $11 mil he was guaranteed, right? Turns out he has made $20 million. Short of his $25 million total potential, but if you want to tell me that $9 million he has made over his guaranteed money is meaningless, well. You are wrong
          It means very little because rarely does a player play out the entirety of any long term contract. Contracts are either restructured down the road or a player is released. The fact that they are not guaranteed is why they mean very little.
          Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
            It means very little because rarely does a player play out the entirety of any long term contract. Contracts are either restructured down the road or a player is released. The fact that they are not guaranteed is why they mean very little.
            As I just said, boley could get released this season before his contract ends. He will still have made almost twice as much as he was guaranteed. How is that insignificant?

            And restructures DO NOT pay the player less. They convert base salary into an up front guaranteed signing bonus.

            Players rarely seeing the total amount of the contract is not at all the same thing as saying the total value doesn't matter.
            Last edited by slipknottin; 01-31-2013, 03:00 PM.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
              What does team friendly mean?
              Less than we would be able to sign him for if he was completely unrestricted and could sign with the highest bidder. Either way it won't be cheap.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                Everyone can be replaced. A first round pick plus an additional $10 or so million of cap room is not all that bad
                It depends on perspective. I don't see Cruz as a one hit wonder with no future value.
                “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
                  Less than we would be able to sign him for if he was completely unrestricted and could sign with the highest bidder. Either way it won't be cheap.
                  I guess we'll know by mid-March. Another alternative could be an agreement to tender him and continue negotiating a long term deal to be finalized before the season starts.
                  “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                    It depends on perspective. I don't see Cruz as a one hit wonder with no future value.
                    Me neither. But that doesn't mean he is irreplaceable either. Giants won plenty of games without him.

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                    • Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                      Me neither. But that doesn't mean he is irreplaceable either. Giants won plenty of games without him.
                      They won a lot of games with Eli and Lawrence Taylor too.
                      “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                        It depends on perspective. I don't see Cruz as a one hit wonder with no future value.
                        I doubt he's a system player like some speculate but he doesn't come off as a "can't miss" player like Megatron is with the Lions or AP is with the Vikings.

                        Anyway, I think something around 5 years/$55mil with around 10-20 guaranteed is a very reasonable expectation for a long term solution between the two sides.

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                        • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                          They won a lot of games with Eli and Lawrence Taylor too.
                          And soon Eli won't be on the team either. Have to just do your best to place dollar values on a guys production on the field and stick to that. For $10 million + a first round pick could they find another 1300 yard receiver? Well welker is a free agent. And he could probably be had for $10 million or less a season. Perhaps not a long term solution. But there are always options.

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                          • http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/stor...ew-york-giants

                            Excerpt: "Cruz will be a restricted free agent but the receiver hopes he remains a priority for Giants brass. The Giants have several free agents and are projected to be $4.7 million over the cap for 2013.

                            "I think so, I would hope so," Cruz said of being a priority. "I consider myself as a pretty high priority in the Giants organization right now. Hopefully, they feel the same way and we can get to an agreement."

                            If the two sides do not come to an agreement on an extension by March 12 when free agency begins, the Giants will likely give Cruz a first-round, restricted free-agent, one-year tender of $2.879 million. The Giants will receive a first-round pick as compensation if Cruz signs an offer with another team and the Giants opt not to match."I have no feeling whether I want to be tendered, how I feel about it," Cruz said when asked by reporters about the RFA tender. "Either way, I just want to come to an agreement where something will keep me in New York." Read more...


                            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                              And soon Eli won't be on the team either. Have to just do your best to place dollar values on a guys production on the field and stick to that. For $10 million + a first round pick could they find another 1300 yard receiver? Well welker is a free agent. And he could probably be had for $10 million or less a season. Perhaps not a long term solution. But there are always options.
                              Options abound. I still prefer Cruz play and retire here.
                              Last edited by RoanokeFan; 01-31-2013, 03:31 PM.
                              “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                                As I just said, boley could get released this season before his contract ends. He will still have made almost twice as much as he was guaranteed. How is that insignificant?

                                And restructures DO NOT pay the player less. They convert base salary into an up front guaranteed signing bonus.

                                Players rarely seeing the total amount of the contract is not at all the same thing as saying the total value doesn't matter.
                                That is not always true at all about the restructure.
                                Sometimes a team will ask a player to redo his deal or be released. Ala Kerry Collins in 2004. He refused but if he had agreed, he would have taken a huge pay cut. In the case of Eli, he restructured to make 2012 more cap friendly but probably got more money overall to do it.

                                I'm not saying that the guaranteed money is all a player gets. I'm saying that when the guaranteed is paid, its completely up to the team as to whether or not a contract is continued. If they believe the player is worth it at the time,(like Michael Boley) they keep it in place. If not they can ask for a restructure or the player can be released. The point is the team has all the power at that time. The only thing they have to honor is the guarantee.
                                Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                                Comment

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