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  • Originally posted by Buddy333 View Post
    The problem is consistency. The elite QB's put up great numbers no matter who they throw to.
    Brady's numbers weren't that great until the Pats loaded up the offense. Rodgers and Peyton have always had decent receivers... I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.

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    • Originally posted by Delicreep View Post
      OK...we need to come to terms here:

      Herm and Jaws pretty much have opposite opinions of Eli.
      Both can't be right
      But both are qualified to give their opinions based on the fact that both have intimate knowledge of football.

      No one should object to this. Neither you nor I are saying they are right, we are just saying that they are qualified to give an opinion.
      Right or wrong, they have the background to make an informed opinion*.

      Now...we differ in the fact that Herm was a miserable coach being a qualification, but the concept holds up without it.





      *we both have so far ignored the fact that all of these guys have biases and personal, emotional reactions, and some times their opinions are colored by them.
      What bias would Herm Edwards have against Eli? Makes no sense. Just doesn't seem to be that kind of guy. He has an opinion about our QB, which happens to be shared my many fans around the country. I thought the kids table comment was silly, but its TV. They like guys who are "colorful". Herm has a style that ESPN believes works on TV.

      Agree or disagree.....that's fine. But it comes down to one basic notion on this MB. If you dare to suggest that our QB is not an all time great, there are a group of posters here that will call you every name in the book. They will attack like a wild mob.
      I tend to call that **** out. Yes I am a major pain because I don't let it slide. My life here would be a lot easier if I did. But I feel strongly about it so there it is.
      Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
        What bias would Herm Edwards have against Eli? Makes no sense. Just doesn't seem to be that kind of guy. He has an opinion about our QB, which happens to be shared my many fans around the country. I thought the kids table comment was silly, but its TV. They like guys who are "colorful". Herm has a style that ESPN believes works on TV.

        Agree or disagree.....that's fine. But it comes down to one basic notion on this MB. If you dare to suggest that our QB is not an all time great, there are a group of posters here that will call you every name in the book. They will attack like a wild mob.
        I tend to call that **** out. Yes I am a major pain because I don't let it slide. My life here would be a lot easier if I did. But I feel strongly about it so there it is.
        I wasn't inferring that Herm had any personally bias against Eli. I was saying that they are all human, and it always is a factor.
        In this case, I also can't fathom a why Herm would be influenced in any way by a personal opinion.
        I was actually thinking about Jaws in general, the worlds biggest homer.

        Like I said, I didn't have an issue with Herm's concept OR his wording (it is what he is known for)

        And your last paragraph should be your signature.
        Personally, I have issues letting poor "Anti-Eli/Elite" posts slide by unchallenged. Argue it well, I have no issue; make a ridiculous point and I feel compelled to act. You rarely if ever make that ridiculous point.

        Right now, I am having trouble not responding to Buddy (who I agree with) but he's killing me with his arguments!!
        Every single day I log onto this message board thinking i've seen it all, every single day I am wrong...NYGiants2120

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        • Originally posted by Flip Empty View Post
          Brady's numbers weren't that great until the Pats loaded up the offense. Rodgers and Peyton have always had decent receivers... I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.
          Maybe his first couple of years where not great but his numbers are simply great. He has guys come and go due to contract or injuries and his numbers are always good.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Harooni View Post
            that is a good point about all those Qb's getting in the HOF, However now we have a different NFL you get matt stafford putting up 5000 yards and a matt ryan throwing 32 TD's in a season.

            You are going to have to have way better stats then guys 15- 20 years ago folks.
            Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford are both excellent QBs, so I don't understand why there is always an issue with those guys.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Buddy333 View Post
              Maybe his first couple of years where not great but his numbers are simply great. He has guys come and go due to contract or injuries and his numbers are always good.
              Specifically, tell me what numbers Brady, Brees Peyton and Rodgers have that Eli doesn't.

              And before you start, the issue will be that it is likely that at least one of them will have numbers that match Eli is almost any category you select.

              They are not elite because you can point to a stat or a stat line.
              Every single day I log onto this message board thinking i've seen it all, every single day I am wrong...NYGiants2120

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              • Originally posted by Harooni View Post
                thank you
                see he likes being called out. when he was called skittish by the GM, he stepped it up. tiki comments he stepped it up. when he said he was as good as brady ,people laughed and mocked and Eli delivered . now herm -lets see.
                I think the only reason Eli was even asked about Tiki's comments is because he was an ex teammate.

                "I think Tiki really showed great leadership last season by calling out the coaches and making public statements about retiring when we were worrying about trying to make playoffs" and "It's nice to see Tiki making such a smooth transition in to his new career" were both classic Eli responses when asked about Tiki's comments. I highly doubt that Eli is even ever asked about Herm's comments because Herm just isn't important enough.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by nygfanmaybe View Post
                  I am going to call BS on this statement simply because if he were the best QB in the game today, you would know that his last name is Rodgers and not Rogers. JMO, though.
                  Exactly. Tom Brady is The Best QB in NFL right now.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                    Huge flaw in your logic. The best way to measure a QB is performance. SB victories alone is a poorer measure of a QB's ability than a Qbs actual performance. You can win SBs with defense and a strong running game, none of which have 1 to 1 correlations with QB play. Big Ben had both on his SB winning teams. There are more of those "exceptions" that you listed that contradict your point. Jim Kelly never won a SB and Jim McMahon won one, but who would you rather be your QB? Warren Moon or Flacco? Eli has 2 SBs and AR has one, but by your logic Eli is the better QB because he has more SB victories.

                    Elite is just a term used to describe QB's who's play is head and shoulders above their peers. IMO, Eli's play over HIS ENTIRE CAREER doesn't justify this label.
                    As an overall regular season QB you would be right. In regard to post season play, I would take Eli Manning over Aaron Rodgers without thinking twice. Eli is head and shoulder better than Aaron Rodgers in post season. Also, I would take Joe Flacco over Warren Moon in a heartbeat. Warren Moon was a very overrated QB.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by nhpgiantsfan View Post
                      I think Nicks had a lot more to do with Eli's year than you're willing to admit. You can't expect any QB to lose a player like that and not suffer a statistical drop off. I mean just look at Eli's performance for the one game that Nicks played like himself. What was it 4 TDs in the 4th quarter against Tampa?
                      Hakeem Nicks is our best receiver. His injury really hurt us this year. What also hurt was losing Mario Manningham, the guy stretches defenses with his speed. Regardless of those losses, we still had a chance to make a run and Eli made some bone headed decisions at critical times that really cost us. We had more injuries in 2011 but Eli didn't make those mistakes, he was the difference that season. Granted, our defense was awful in 2012, our OC was even worse than usual and we lost some players on offense to injury and free agency. However, if Eli had performed at his 2011 level, I think we would have won the division and made the playoffs. I will give Eli credit where it is due because our lives and dies by him, so I must also be critical when he does do poorly.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Delicreep View Post
                        Hmmm...none of the guys you mentioned won 2 SB with 2 completely different groups of WR and TE's.

                        Now I'm not sure how you are going to define "work with anyone", but I am pretty sure it won't have anything to do with winning the ultimate prize in football.
                        Folks fail to realize this. Eli has won not only with two different sets of receivers but two different sets of receivers that are two different types of receivers.

                        Comment


                        • Simple physics. Edwards wore green, played in Filthy and scooped the "FUMBLE". He has intangible defects that dog his every step! None of this has anything to do with Eli's QB skills. Go Giants!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by BuffyBlueII View Post
                            As an overall regular season QB you would be right. In regard to post season play, I would take Eli Manning over Aaron Rodgers without thinking twice. Eli is head and shoulder better than Aaron Rodgers in post season. Also, I would take Joe Flacco over Warren Moon in a heartbeat. Warren Moon was a very overrated QB.
                            OK Buffy...You have been saying this thing about Rodgers for a while and you have to be called out. I get that he's our QB and all of that, but to say that Eli is far better than Rodgers in the post season is ridiculous.

                            Aaron Rodgers offense in the playoffs have averaged 30.1PPG. Eli's offense in the playoffs have averaged 19.8/PPG
                            Aaron Rodgers has 18 TD's and 5 Ints in the playoffs, Eli has 17 TD's and 8 Int's.
                            Aaron Rodgers Compl % in the playoffs is 66.1%, Eli's is 61.5%
                            Aaron Rodgers has averaged 289 yds/game in the playoffs, Eli has averaged 229 yds/game

                            The BIG difference between the 2? The Giants defense has given up 17 PPG in Eli's playoff games. The GB defense has given up 27.4 PPG in AR's playoff games.

                            If the Giants had given up 27 points in every one of Eli's playoff games, he would be 1-10 in the playoffs.
                            If Aaron Rodgers defenses had given up 17 points in every game..He'd be 8-0.

                            Eli had a great run in 2 playoffs and has been an outstanding post season QB, but Rodgers has been friggin lights out. Unfortunately, poor defenses have been his undoing.
                            Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by BuffyBlueII View Post
                              Folks fail to realize this. Eli has won not only with two different sets of receivers but two different sets of receivers that are two different types of receivers.
                              And both sets of WR's played outstanding in both playoff runs. Lets make sure that is said as well. Plaxico had one of the greatest games in playoff history. He abused Al Harris.
                              Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                                What bias would Herm Edwards have against Eli? Makes no sense. Just doesn't seem to be that kind of guy. He has an opinion about our QB, which happens to be shared my many fans around the country. I thought the kids table comment was silly, but its TV. They like guys who are "colorful". Herm has a style that ESPN believes works on TV.

                                Agree or disagree.....that's fine. But it comes down to one basic notion on this MB. If you dare to suggest that our QB is not an all time great, there are a group of posters here that will call you every name in the book. They will attack like a wild mob.
                                I tend to call that **** out. Yes I am a major pain because I don't let it slide. My life here would be a lot easier if I did. But I feel strongly about it so there it is.
                                Here's where the problem with you begins. You tend to lump ANYONE who dares to defend Eli or calls out a commentator for what they consider unfair or insulting remarks against him into the same category.....and then you overstate your point by saying things like "If you dare to suggest that our QB is not an all time great, there are a group of posters here that will call you every name in the book. They will attack like a wild mob." This simply is not true on any level. It's in your head..we've talked about this.....you snapped a while back and now EVERY disagreement anyone has with you about Eli comes to this. No one is saying that Eli is the greatest QB ever, but there is a legit argument that he may be the best QB the Giants have ever had.....and no one is calling you anything......other than myself, as I am calling you obessive about this subject. You don't let anyone get away with defending Eli....EVER.

                                Giants fans SHOULD defend Eli against silly, insulting and unfair comments.
                                I stopped fighting my inner demons. We're on the same side now.

                                Comment

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