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  • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
    That's silly to me. So as long as you look good losing it's okay? Since this thread was originally about Herm, I'm going to quote him; "You play to win the game", not "It's okay if you lose, as long as you throw pretty passes".
    Have you ever seen a game where the Giants lost and Eli played well enough to win?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Buddy333 View Post
      So you count the one or two misses he has but not the multiple drops his WR's and TE's had? The fumble did not hurt them. The Giants went 3 and out after that. Both teams then traded field goals and punts.
      So? That was a possession lost that possibly could have been a touchdown. Who cares if we didn't convert a 3rd down afterward. It's a playoff game, turnovers in situations like that are a no no.
      Mood: WOOF!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Buddy333 View Post
        Have you ever seen a game where the Giants lost and Eli played well enough to win?
        The entire 2011 season. Also, didn't I answer this already?
        Mood: WOOF!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by gmen46 View Post
          This is the precise dividing line between those who (like me) believe Eli is a better QB than many Eli "realists" (you may or may not be in that category) are willing to admit. I'm not talking about the "Rodgers,, Brady, etc is a better Qb than Eli" ongoing argument. That's a somewhat subjective argument that depends upon whether the debate is centered on the current year, the respective careers in total, statistics, number of wins vs losses, number of championships played (and won), and so forth. In that context, Brady comes out on top no matter which way you slice it, then the other rankings factor in everything plus personal bias--no way around that, it appears--on either side of the debate.The dividing line I refer to is your last sentence. You say "playing well consistently, win or lose, is everything". I think Lombardi would take issue with that, and I would agree with him. He even went further, in order to make his point about the driving attitude of his that made him such an iconic sports figure. You know it--"winning isn't everything, it's the only thing".That underscores the importance of collective effort and achievement over one's individual importance. Consistently good individual performances are important, even crucial most of the time. But that is not "everything".I'm sure all Packers fans agree with those here who insist that Rodgers is not only the best QB in the NFL today, but that he's the greatest thing on Earth since the invention of the automobile. But you really believe they take solace in the fact he played well in either or both playoff games the past 2 years at the expense of losing both games and the opportunity to repeat as SB champs either year? The fact he played well in either or both games was "everything" to them?I don't.
          There is probably not a single Green Bay fan or football fan that thinks that Rodgers was the reason for those losses.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
            So? That was a possession lost that possibly could have been a touchdown. Who cares if we didn't convert a 3rd down afterward. It's a playoff game, turnovers in situations like that are a no no.
            It didn't effect the game.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Buddy333 View Post
              It didn't effect the game.
              How do you even know that?
              Mood: WOOF!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
                The entire 2011 season. Also, didn't I answer this already?
                So then why keep saying its ok to lose as long as you look good doing so. No one said that.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
                  How do you even know that?
                  They got the ball back right away and both teams exchanged field goals and punts. It happened early in the 3rd quarter.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Buddy333 View Post
                    So then why keep saying its ok to lose as long as you look good doing so. No one said that.
                    Lol okay. Because you keep saying that Eli plays bad when the Giants lose, he almost never plays well.
                    Mood: WOOF!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Buddy333 View Post
                      They got the ball back right away and both teams exchanged field goals and punts. It happened early in the 3rd quarter.
                      Lol k.
                      Mood: WOOF!

                      Comment


                      • So tired of these ESPN ex-athletes/coaches who weren't ever that good but on ESPN they are seen as GODS amongst dorky journalists and other on air ESPN personalities. Marcellus Wiley, this guy prances around every show on their 20 channels just happy to have a job. I can appreciate that. He NEVER acts like he was the man, and he knows he was never the man so he actually has a bit of fun rather than "Well let me tell you how it is."

                        Herm, his socks, he's just so over board. We get it, Coach, you're the man. You can go in to ANY High School locker room and yell for 10 minutes, get the boys hype and all that. We get it, you made a big play, were a decent player, horrible coach. You've DONE IT ALL, Herm. We get it. You're now on ESPN.

                        ESPN is what we have, as sports fans, and I think we all love the HIGHLIGHTS/good information portions of SportsCenter and such but then when you have a bum talking about a guy currently playing? Save that for Sports Radio. Personally all I want from ESPN are highlights, team news, offensive/defensive matchups, and I'd much rather have ESPN Classics be merged with ESPN, get rid of all those corny shows like Around the Horn and ANYTHING not named Sportscenter [30 for 30 is really good! THAT Type of stuff, ESPN] and show us classic games in between their actual coverage of today's games/SportsCenters.

                        If I want to hear hate/disgruntled opinions I'll turn on AM Sports Talk.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by gumby74 View Post
                          Hey. If a player plays well while losing, at least you know that that player is not the problem. Playing well consistently, win or lose, is everything.
                          Originally posted by gmen46 View Post
                          This is the precise dividing line between those who (like me) believe Eli is a better QB than many Eli "realists" (you may or may not be in that category) are willing to admit.

                          I'm not talking about the "Rodgers,, Brady, etc is a better Qb than Eli" ongoing argument. That's a somewhat subjective argument that depends upon whether the debate is centered on the current year, the respective careers in total, statistics, number of wins vs losses, number of championships played (and won), and so forth. In that context, Brady comes out on top no matter which way you slice it, then the other rankings factor in everything plus personal bias--no way around that, it appears--on either side of the debate.

                          The dividing line I refer to is your last sentence. You say "playing well consistently, win or lose, is everything". I think Lombardi would take issue with that, and I would agree with him. He even went further, in order to make his point about the driving attitude of his that made him such an iconic sports figure.

                          You know it--"winning isn't everything, it's the only thing".

                          That underscores the importance of collective effort and achievement over one's individual importance. Consistently good individual performances are important, even crucial most of the time. But that is not "everything".

                          I'm sure all Packers fans agree with those here who insist that Rodgers is not only the best QB in the NFL today, but that he's the greatest thing on Earth since the invention of the automobile. But you really believe they take solace in the fact he played well in either or both playoff games the past 2 years at the expense of losing both games and the opportunity to repeat as SB champs either year? The fact he played well in either or both games was "everything" to them?

                          I don't.
                          So then let me ask you something. If you place such a big emphasis on winning, and as you said already that winning is the consumate team achievement, does that make a player who performed poorly on a winning team a good player? After all, he's a winner right?

                          That is essentially what you are saying. I personally find that ridiculous. If I have a team of 5 people who work for me and we just won a 5 million dollar advertising contract, but 1 of those 5 team members is an underperformer, trust me, I'll replace that 1 guy as soon as I can. Win or lose, he's not pulling his weight and is a detriment to the team.

                          And regarding Packer fans. The fact that Rodgers played well but still lost a bunch of playoff games means that fans know that Rodgers did his job and he was not to the reason why they lost. While they'll give their right arm for another SB win, they know that blaming Rodgers is just silly.

                          The point gotten from this post is that it's a team sport and an individual is only a smallish % of the overall outcome. Being a good or bad performer is absolute. Winning or losing should have no bearing on that.
                          Last edited by gumby74; 02-20-2013, 05:12 PM.
                          http://boards.giants.com/showthread....est-game/page6
                          http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html
                          http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8732732/is-new-york-giants-qb-eli-manning-worthy-hall-fame-espn-magazine

                          Entire Team Let Eli down today - NYG4l

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
                            Lol okay. Because you keep saying that Eli plays bad when the Giants lose, he almost never plays well.
                            Yeah, because in most of their losses this year he did play bad along with most of the team. It is what it is.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
                              Lol k.
                              Facts.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Buddy333 View Post
                                Facts.
                                Doesn't mean it wasn't a wasted drive. It's your opinion though so that's okay.
                                Mood: WOOF!

                                Comment

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