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  • Originally posted by Buddy333 View Post
    The play had is importance, no doubt. So did the interception that Eli threw. That was in the red zone. Have to assume that took point off the board no? Also, this play in no way means he didn't play well. It was a great defensive play. The defense was great the entire post season.
    Rodgers threw a pick in the game, too. So, he committed 2 of the Pack's 5 turnovers. It's not like Rodgers played lights out that game save for a couple of missed passes. He committed a couple turnovers and overthrew several passes (one of which would have been another TD [the missed pass to Finley, I believe it was]).

    Also, the LoS on Eli's interception wasn't in the redzone, it was on the 35. For arguments sake, let's say that it was just an incomplete pass, we would have been left with a 52 or 53 yard FG attempt which, if we're being honest, Tynes likely wouldn't have made. Scoring a TD on that drive was far from certain. Definitely nothing like the play that Rodgers fumbled on or his overthrow of Finley.

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    • Lol. Rodgers threw a pick when he just tossed it up at the end of the game. The pick Eli threw was at the 13.

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      • Originally posted by gmen46 View Post
        Since this thread -- as meandering as it's been -- is centered ultimately around Eli and his overall level of play, and not some hypothetical "player who performed poorly on a winning team, let's stick to him.

        How many Giants wins since the middle of 2004 have involved games that Eli "played poorly" in?

        Are you suggesting Eli "played poorly" in any of the 8 post season games--out of a total of 11--the Giants have won since 2004? If so, which ones would you make that claim for?

        If you are not suggesting the above question concerning Eli, then why are you even bringing up the hypothetical "player who performed poorly on a winning team"??

        You have now disintegrated into a transition to the hypothetical to support an opinion, rather than adhere to the subject at hand. You have the right to do so, but it does nothing for your argument, and smells kinda desperate. You're better than that.
        I think my examples just made things more convoluted. It was my parting post as I left work.

        I'm merely saying that I find issue with your statement that a player's performance can rise and fall with the outcome of the game. In Eli's case, the fact that he won 2 SBs didn't make his personal performance for those years any worse or any better. As you said in so many words, football is the ultimate team sport.

        And to be fair, i often use real life examples because that's how I think when it comes to the Giants. I have little emotional attachment to any player and quite frankly I treat them all as chess pieces. I tend to look at things very abstractly.
        http://boards.giants.com/showthread....est-game/page6
        http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html
        http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8732732/is-new-york-giants-qb-eli-manning-worthy-hall-fame-espn-magazine

        Entire Team Let Eli down today - NYG4l

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        • Originally posted by gmen46 View Post
          I disagree with the "everything" part, yes. I wrote a long (I get long-winded at times, I admit) post to that effect, a few pages back.

          Winning--in professional sports, certainly--is everything. Playing well consistently is an important component and contributor to winning.

          "Everything" and "important component" are not the same thing.
          There is one big difference here. You win as a team. You perform as an individual. So as an individual, the best you can do is perform well. Whether or not you win or lose is more or less out of your control.

          And yes, performing well, even in losses is very important. It's essentially saying that you weren't part of the reason your team lost and you did your work.
          Last edited by gumby74; 02-20-2013, 09:43 PM.
          http://boards.giants.com/showthread....est-game/page6
          http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html
          http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8732732/is-new-york-giants-qb-eli-manning-worthy-hall-fame-espn-magazine

          Entire Team Let Eli down today - NYG4l

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Buddy333 View Post
            Lol. Rodgers threw a pick when he just tossed it up at the end of the game. The pick Eli threw was at the 13.
            That's where the ball was intercepted. We never had possession of the ball in the redzone though.

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            • Originally posted by Drez View Post
              That's where the ball was intercepted. We never had possession of the ball in the redzone though.
              Right because it was intercepted.

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              • Originally posted by gumby74 View Post
                There is one big difference here. You win as a team. You perform as an individual. So as an individual, the best you can do is perform well. Whether or not you win or lose is more or less out of your control.And yes, performing well, even in losses is very important. It's essentially saying that you weren't part of the reason your team lost and you did your work.
                This is so true. Can't see how this is being disputed. What benefit does not playing consistent ever have?
                Last edited by Buddy333; 02-20-2013, 10:33 PM.

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                • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
                  Doesn't mean it wasn't a wasted drive. It's your opinion though so that's okay.
                  It was momentum killing as well as game impacting and it was all on Aaron Rodgers.
                  Last edited by BuffyBlueII; 02-21-2013, 02:04 AM.

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                  • Originally posted by Marvelousmik View Post
                    I have a question for you or anyone who wants to answer it. This question is not who is better in post season, pre season, regular season, off season, off the field, in the December or anything like that. the question is this.



                    Who is the better all around Quarterback? Eli Manning or Aaron Rodgers?
                    So, are you going to answer the question or not? Here, I will post it again for you. Who is the more successful post season QB, Aaron Rodgers or
                    Eli Manning?

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                    • Originally posted by Drez View Post
                      Actually, that play wasn't so much lucky as it was great execution on our part and lax defensive effort on GBs part.

                      And how is that play even germane to this discussion?
                      He will continue to bring it up to try and state how miserable Green Bay's defense was and there was no blame on Aaron Rodgers. Funny because that defense led NFL in take aways that year and was good enough for them to go 15-1.

                      That play was executed perfectly.

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                      • Originally posted by BuffyBlueII View Post
                        So, are you going to answer the question or not? Here, I will post it again for you. Who is the more successful post season QB, Aaron Rodgers or
                        Eli Manning?

                        eli is the more successful post season qb.

                        Now answer my question. WHo is the better all around QB? rodgers or eli?
                        Don't take it personal, we're just debating.

                        ~Big Mike~

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                        • Originally posted by Marvelousmik View Post
                          eli is the more successful post season qb.

                          Now answer my question. WHo is the better all around QB? rodgers or eli?
                          You have already read my view on this in a different thread but I will write it again if you like. After this season and the way Aaron Rodgers basically carried his team to the playoffs, I don't think there is any way around it and I would rate him as the better all around QB than Eli Manning. I would think that the list would have to be 1-Tom Brady 2-Peyton Manning 3-Aaron Rodgers. I would put Eli Manning at number 4 but it is very close between him Drew Brees and Ben Rothlisberger so I can see how some would have him at number 5. I also think that there is no way to ignore Joe Flacco. In fact, I think that he is very much like Eli Manning was at the same point in his career.

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                          • Originally posted by BuffyBlueII View Post
                            You have already read my view on this in a different thread but I will write it again if you like. After this season and the way Aaron Rodgers basically carried his team to the playoffs, I don't think there is any way around it and I would rate him as the better all around QB than Eli Manning. I would think that the list would have to be 1-Tom Brady 2-Peyton Manning 3-Aaron Rodgers. I would put Eli Manning at number 4 but it is very close between him Drew Brees and Ben Rothlisberger so I can see how some would have him at number 5. I also think that there is no way to ignore Joe Flacco. In fact, I think that he is very much like Eli Manning was at the same point in his career.
                            Deep down i think rodgers is the best qb in the nfl. I really want to say tom brady, and i almost feel guilty not saying it, but ive seen games where tom played horrible. Same goes for brees, ben, flaco, and peyton. i have never seen a game where rodgers played horrible giving all the circumstances. (not saying he hasnt). But i am yet to see one. Ive seen him miss throws while not under pressure like every qb has. hes only human. But i cant remember ever watching a game and saying rodgers played like crap. i remember being shocked when webster intercepted a pass from him because rodgers rarely turns the ball over.

                            This year he had 39 touchdowns and 8 interceptions. last year 46 touchdowns 6 interceptions. for the last 4 years no one has played the qb position better than rodgers has.

                            my list goes rodgers brady, peyton, brees, eli.

                            I agree with you about eli playing great in the post season. Id take eli in the post season over any qb in the nfl except for rodgers. and again. thats because ive yet to see him play horrible..
                            Last edited by Marvelousmik; 02-21-2013, 04:00 AM.
                            Don't take it personal, we're just debating.

                            ~Big Mike~

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by BuffyBlueII View Post
                              It was momentum killing as well as game impacting and it was all on Aaron Rodgers.
                              It was the first drive if the second half. That impacted the game? Maybe a little but to say that was the game is wrong. How was that all on Rodgers by the way?

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                              • Originally posted by Buddy333 View Post
                                Have you ever seen a game where the Giants lost and Eli played well enough to win?
                                I've seen games where Rodgers played poorly and the Packers still won. NGCG against he Bears comes to mind. I can't imagine the Giants winning any playoff game if Eli plays poorly.

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