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  • This "It's a business" business

    Just read for the umpteenth time the "let's face it, it's a business" mantra.

    When a player gets cut, you sometimes get: "It's a business. They really don't care about me."

    When the player plays on a Superbowl winner and has the opportunity to play elsewhere for more money, they're often bolting:, "Hey, it's a business. I have to make a decision for my family while I'm in the prime of my career" they might be heard to say.

    When management (a G.M.) decides to let a player who has been a great player for the franchise, particularly in New York, where revenues are large, it's due to a lot of players on the team already being paid a lot of money for what they do. There being a finite limit on dollars to pay everyone, as agreed to by everyone, management and players alike.

    No one is being "cheap" here, at least in the case of when a team is spending up to the salary cap.

    The tag line that often goes with the it's a business line is: "Where's the loyalty?"

    How many players are loyal to their teammates enough to give up some of the limited pie to satisfy their teammates desire to "feed their family"?

    How many players are loyal enough to those who made the game a success before them and are suffering greatly today to give up part of that pie to help them?

    If Victor Cruz were to actually get paid $10 million next year, you can guarantee that pie will be short around the table for a number of teammates, and more of them will actually have to be let go.

    Players' agents are the ones, along with the players themselves, that you'll sometimes hear publicly pleading their cause. Rarely, it ever, does management have the same opportunity to pull on emotions (a.k.a. attempted manipulation to gain bargaining leverage for the agent and/or the player's own increase in sheckels.

    This is a business that wouldn't exist were it not for the owners who built it. And the pie is rather large for everyone to share. Players agree to the system, and the only ones being "cheated" in any negotiation is the fellow athletes whose pie are collectively being slivered away from them.

    Few ever speak on behalf of the owner or what they've created for all of us to enjoy and the athlete to potentially prosper.

    So, yes, that's the business. For the NFL player, it's gaining money in a compe***ive scenario in an effort to squeeze it away from other fellow players, and doing so without really thinking in those terms.
    Last edited by GreenZone; 02-15-2013, 01:46 AM.

  • #2
    We get all these hyperinflated salaries from the fact that players are unionized and have agents. But those two things are necessary because in the days before players unions, free agency, and the like, teams would force players into long (i.e. their entire career) contracts for a pittance with no way out unless they were traded...


    First the owners had all the power, then the players had all the power, and now the power struggle continues to this day. I doubt perfect balance is something that can be achieved...

    I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite team in the NFL.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think the other term that bothers me more than this phrase is the "I'm just trying to feed my family" phrase. What the hell is your family eating...lobster, steak and $900 bottles of wine every day?

      I make a very small percent of what a minimum pay NFLer makes and I feed my family just fine.


      But, it will always be a business and some teams are a bit more compassionate about the business. The Giants are notorious for holding onto players so that they can receive their bonus before letting them go...or they let them go early so they can catch on to another team, where some teams will not cut a player until the last minute.

      Players are going to constantly try to get what they think they are worth even to the detriment of other team mates being signed, but there are those that try to make way for the signing of team mates if they can recoup that loss later or in some bonus.
      Last edited by Rat_bastich; 02-15-2013, 02:11 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Rat_bastich View Post
        I make a very small percent of what a minimum pay NFLer makes and I feed my family just fine.
        But you also probably have a little wisdom concerning how you spend your money, which is another whole separate topic.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Rat_bastich View Post
          I think the other term that bothers me more than this phrase is the "I'm just trying to feed my family" phrase. What the hell is your family eating...lobster, steak and $900 bottles of wine every day?

          I make a very small percent of what a minimum pay NFLer makes and I feed my family just fine.


          But, it will always be a business and some teams are a bit more compassionate about the business. The Giants are notorious for holding onto players so that they can receive their bonus before letting them go...or they let them go early so they can catch on to another team, where some teams will not cut a player until the last minute.

          Players are going to constantly try to get what they think they are worth even to the detriment of other team mates being signed, but there are those that try to make way for the signing of team mates if they can recoup that loss later or in some bonus.
          I think the original idea was to set them up for life, but of course most athletes just blow all of it fairly quickly and rarely save or invest with their money.

          Part of the problem is that the NFL needs to set up some kind of program to help athletes adjust to post-athletic life. The charismatic few can land media jobs, the few with the best football intelligence can pick up coaching. The smart few (especially those that didn't declare after junior year and instead went on to finish their degrees) should be able to pick up jobs in the field they graduated from... not many people know this, but Dave Brown is a fairly successful investment banker; he was one of the guys brought in in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis to help Lehman Brothers and is now a senior VP with their company. But he's an exception more than the rule...

          But those are the few that have some form of intelligence (social, academic, or football) that would allow them to do something other than play. Most of these athletes have been training from middle school or earlier pretty much just to play football. High schools often let football players skip classes for practice (thereby teaching them that football supercedes everything, including education), and colleges often build the players' class schedules around the football schedule. Many high school football players that don't get recruited to play for college end up in lower-tier jobs (not always, but often) with no other skills to their name and essentially starting from scratch.

          The NFL (and american sports in general) are actually fairly progressive in this regard. Look up the european concept of the football (soccer) academy sometime... at the very least the NFL generally recruits out of college, where star players have a legitimate chance to earn a legitimate education, but still, many players still don't complete their college degrees.

          Honestly, only social pressure for change will ever make things better. If the NFL required a college degree (or at least proof that graduation was imminent) to enter the draft, that would help to an extent. But the only true way to help athletes is some kind of exit counseling program. Players that make it all the way to the pro level have gone nearly 10 years with constant praise for their football skills, and suddenly, once their career is over, those skills mean pretty much nothing.

          I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite team in the NFL.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Rat_bastich View Post
            I think the other term that bothers me more than this phrase is the "I'm just trying to feed my family" phrase. What the hell is your family eating...lobster, steak and $900 bottles of wine every day?

            I make a very small percent of what a minimum pay NFLer makes and I feed my family just fine.


            But, it will always be a business and some teams are a bit more compassionate about the business. The Giants are notorious for holding onto players so that they can receive their bonus before letting them go...or they let them go early so they can catch on to another team, where some teams will not cut a player until the last minute.

            Players are going to constantly try to get what they think they are worth even to the detriment of other team mates being signed, but there are those that try to make way for the signing of team mates if they can recoup that loss later or in some bonus.
            A lot of the people didn't come from backgrounds where they had money. The fact that you have a computer, have internet, etc means that you already have luxuries that many people can't afford. Now granted, there are plenty of lazy people out there that are just taking advantage of government help, but I'm ignoring those as they are nobodies and deserve to be shot.
            http://boards.giants.com/showthread....est-game/page6
            http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html
            http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8732732/is-new-york-giants-qb-eli-manning-worthy-hall-fame-espn-magazine

            Entire Team Let Eli down today - NYG4l

            Comment


            • #7
              Everyone acts in self interest.
              As fans, its really better to just let the "business" aspect of the game play out and root for our guys when our team is fielded.

              Taking sides or questioning motives of players or teams is hard to sort out.

              I mean......they cut Phil Simms after a Pro Bowl season and a great Giants career. And that wasn't Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder. Thats was Wellington Mara.
              Personally, I have no problem with players trying to make the best deal they can. But once they suit up, I expect them to play hard and play as a team.
              Generally, that is what happens.
              Where I think players often make mistakes, is when they go public with their contract situations. Then we are forced to deal with it as fans. That should be kept between the parties.
              Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                Everyone acts in self interest.
                As fans, its really better to just let the "business" aspect of the game play out and root for our guys when our team is fielded.

                Taking sides or questioning motives of players or teams is hard to sort out.

                I mean......they cut Phil Simms after a Pro Bowl season and a great Giants career. And that wasn't Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder. Thats was Wellington Mara.
                Personally, I have no problem with players trying to make the best deal they can. But once they suit up, I expect them to play hard and play as a team.
                Generally, that is what happens.
                Where I think players often make mistakes, is when they go public with their contract situations. Then we are forced to deal with it as fans. That should be kept between the parties.
                Sometimes it's not even the players... it's the agents. And it's leaked deliberately, as a leveraging tactic from the agent. Like with the Cruz example: Cruz has said plenty of times that he doesn't even as much as think about his contract, he just goes out and plays the game and lets his agent handle all the contract issues. So it's his agent that is going to the media with a 10 mill figure. I don't know whether it was the agent or Reese that leaked it, nor do I know who it benefits more...

                I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite team in the NFL.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Players always hit a point of diminishing return for their salaries. Some sooner than later due to injury. So can you really fault them for taking bread away from the families of their teammates?

                  Each player has an ever changing market value determined by 32 teams. Most every player when they hit the open market, go to the highest bidder for their services. Really doesn't have much to do with their teammates, other than their play can help or hurt the market value of the individual players. Even when someone is willing to take a discount to remain with their team, I doubt their teammates factor into that decision much. They most likely would like to keep their family in a familiar home and neighborhood, feel the team they are on is more capable of winning a SB or a better organization, etc.
                  Do not feed the trolls.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Toadofsteel View Post
                    Sometimes it's not even the players... it's the agents. And it's leaked deliberately, as a leveraging tactic from the agent. Like with the Cruz example: Cruz has said plenty of times that he doesn't even as much as think about his contract, he just goes out and plays the game and lets his agent handle all the contract issues. So it's his agent that is going to the media with a 10 mill figure. I don't know whether it was the agent or Reese that leaked it, nor do I know who it benefits more...
                    I think thats definitely right.
                    And we fans aren't much different. We've had all kinds of calls for "cutting DD, cutting Webby!" Our loyalty is to the Giants and not necessarily our players.

                    So as I said, everyone acts in self interest.

                    1. The player wants the best deal and best work conditions.
                    2. The club wants to field a winning team and be profitable.
                    3. The fans want a winner. (and if that means cutting a long time beloved player and bringing in someone else?..So be it)
                    Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                      I think thats definitely right.
                      And we fans aren't much different. We've had all kinds of calls for "cutting DD, cutting Webby!" Our loyalty is to the Giants and not necessarily our players.

                      So as I said, everyone acts in self interest.

                      1. The player wants the best deal and best work conditions.
                      2. The club wants to field a winning team and be profitable.
                      3. The fans want a winner. (and if that means cutting a long time beloved player and bringing in someone else?..So be it)
                      That's part of why even though I've bought lots of Giants apparel over the years, I have NEVER bought a jersey. My loyalty is to the team more than the players. I wish former Giants players well on their future endeavors and generally thank them for their service, unless they start openly dissing the organization...

                      I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite team in the NFL.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Toadofsteel View Post
                        That's part of why even though I've bought lots of Giants apparel over the years, I have NEVER bought a jersey. My loyalty is to the team more than the players. I wish former Giants players well on their future endeavors and generally thank them for their service, unless they start openly dissing the organization...
                        I suppose everyone is different. There are always players that will be among my favorite. I have a Tuck and a Nicks jersey. And I LOVED Brandon Jacobs and I admit I loved Jeremy Shockey before that.

                        And of course there is that QB who wore # 11. I kind of liked him as well.
                        Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Toadofsteel View Post
                          We get all these hyperinflated salaries from the fact that players are unionized and have agents. But those two things are necessary because in the days before players unions, free agency, and the like, teams would force players into long (i.e. their entire career) contracts for a pittance with no way out unless they were traded...


                          First the owners had all the power, then the players had all the power, and now the power struggle continues to this day. I doubt perfect balance is something that can be achieved...
                          I disagree that the players union and agents are the reason we have these inflated salaries. Don't the owners set the salary cap? And the owners decide what each player is worth to them. If an owner decides he is willing to pay some rediculous salary to a player, well now he has just set a market that other players of comparable ability are going to go after.

                          If no owners were willing to pay a salary that a free agent was looking for, would the player quit football? No. He would sign for the best salary that he was being offered, whatever that would be. It is compe***ion and desire to win that makes the owners spend what they spend to get "their" guy.

                          If the owners wanted to reduce salaries bad enough they could all agree to a pact saying that they are not going to pay more than a certain amount for a certain player, They could even set the prices up by position. But, that will never happen because the owners are almost as compe***ive as the players and all want to put the best team on the field.
                          #80

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by nhpgiantsfan View Post
                            I disagree that the players union and agents are the reason we have these inflated salaries. Don't the owners set the salary cap? And the owners decide what each player is worth to them. If an owner decides he is willing to pay some rediculous salary to a player, well now he has just set a market that other players of comparable ability are going to go after.

                            If no owners were willing to pay a salary that a free agent was looking for, would the player quit football? No. He would sign for the best salary that he was being offered, whatever that would be. It is compe***ion and desire to win that makes the owners spend what they spend to get "their" guy.

                            If the owners wanted to reduce salaries bad enough they could all agree to a pact saying that they are not going to pay more than a certain amount for a certain player, They could even set the prices up by position. But, that will never happen because the owners are almost as compe***ive as the players and all want to put the best team on the field.
                            Actually...what you are suggesting is illegal. Its called collusion. The MLB owners were harshly punished for that in the courts years ago.
                            The players get their % of the total revenues. That's the negotiated deal. That's the CBA.
                            The owners don't set the cap number. The cap number is dictated by total NFL revenues.
                            Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GreenZone View Post
                              Just read for the umpteenth time the "let's face it, it's a business" mantra.

                              When a player gets cut, you sometimes get: "It's a business. They really don't care about me."

                              When the player plays on a Superbowl winner and has the opportunity to play elsewhere for more money, they're often bolting:, "Hey, it's a business. I have to make a decision for my family while I'm in the prime of my career" they might be heard to say.

                              When management (a G.M.) decides to let a player who has been a great player for the franchise, particularly in New York, where revenues are large, it's due to a lot of players on the team already being paid a lot of money for what they do. There being a finite limit on dollars to pay everyone, as agreed to by everyone, management and players alike.

                              No one is being "cheap" here, at least in the case of when a team is spending up to the salary cap.

                              The tag line that often goes with the it's a business line is: "Where's the loyalty?"

                              How many players are loyal to their teammates enough to give up some of the limited pie to satisfy their teammates desire to "feed their family"?

                              How many players are loyal enough to those who made the game a success before them and are suffering greatly today to give up part of that pie to help them?

                              If Victor Cruz were to actually get paid $10 million next year, you can guarantee that pie will be short around the table for a number of teammates, and more of them will actually have to be let go.

                              Players' agents are the ones, along with the players themselves, that you'll sometimes hear publicly pleading their cause. Rarely, it ever, does management have the same opportunity to pull on emotions (a.k.a. attempted manipulation to gain bargaining leverage for the agent and/or the player's own increase in sheckels.

                              This is a business that wouldn't exist were it not for the owners who built it. And the pie is rather large for everyone to share. Players agree to the system, and the only ones being "cheated" in any negotiation is the fellow athletes whose pie are collectively being slivered away from them.

                              Few ever speak on behalf of the owner or what they've created for all of us to enjoy and the athlete to potentially prosper.

                              So, yes, that's the business. For the NFL player, it's gaining money in a compe***ive scenario in an effort to squeeze it away from other fellow players, and doing so without really thinking in those terms.
                              If you'd turn down an extra $4m a year or a significant chunk of guaranteed money out of "loyalty," I'd have another adjective to describe that decision.

                              Just because there's a limited pool of money from which to pay players doesn't mean that if Player A gets x dollars, Player B can only get y. Here's my response to that... If you want to make more money, be a better player.

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