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It's not crazy if Giants pick Nicks over Cruz

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Drez View Post
    Yes, he probably did. So, then he got the money a few months sooner, as in one check in March as opposed to getting it in paychecks throughout the season? That seems a pretty minor detail to me, really. And to be completely honest, and to clarify since I wasn't being very specific, when I said it didn't affect when he got the money, I was talking more about the calendar/season year, meaning he was going to get that money in 2012.
    Its a minor point but that's not what you meant at all.
    I said that he got the money up front and you retorted that it didn't effect when he got the money.
    Lets keep it real here my friend.
    Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
      And you missed what I said entirely.

      The slot position manufacturers yards. Probably in the range of 600-800 yards. It's easy to replace that yardage with a new player. Cruz's value is what he does beyond that. Turning the 600-800 yards into 1100-1500 yards.
      And without Cruz adding those yards, we would not have won the SB. Plain and simple.
      I would never argue that Nicks isn't far more important a player. I think Nicks is a top 5 WR. But I would also not suggest that Cruz can be easily replaced by a 600-800 yard WR. The kid has proven that he can play. I wouldn't pay him top 10 money, but I'm not going to suggest he doesn't deserve something in the $5 to $6 MM/year range. Which is a hell of a lot more than a 600-800 yard "Jason Avante" type player would get.
      Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
        And without Cruz adding those yards, we would not have won the SB. Plain and simple.
        I would never argue that Nicks isn't far more important a player. I think Nicks is a top 5 WR. But I would also not suggest that Cruz can be easily replaced by a 600-800 yard WR. The kid has proven that he can play. I wouldn't pay him top 10 money, but I'm not going to suggest he doesn't deserve something in the $5 to $6 MM/year range. Which is a hell of a lot more than a 600-800 yard "Jason Avante" type player would get.
        Sigh. You clearly are missing my point.

        Like I said, his value is closer to A receiver who is around 800-1000 yards. Not a guy who has 1,500 yards
        Last edited by slipknottin; 02-19-2013, 02:10 PM.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
          Sigh. You clearly are missing my point.
          Well dumb it down for me.
          You say that Cruz should get paid like a 600-800 yard WR. I say that's nuts. You say all we need is a 600-800 yard replacement for Cruz. Is it your view that a 600-800 yard WR would produce like Cruz does in the slot. If so, show me the evidence.
          Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
            Well dumb it down for me.
            You say that Cruz should get paid like a 600-800 yard WR. I say that's nuts. You say all we need is a 600-800 yard replacement for Cruz. Is it your view that a 600-800 yard WR would produce like Cruz does in the slot. If so, show me the evidence.
            No. The slot position creates 600-800 yards. Cruz should get paid off what he creates on top of that. Somewhere around 800-1000 yards. Max he should get is about the contract colston got. 5 year ~37 mil


            I'm saying any moderately intelligent/tough receiver would have 600-800 yards in the slot. Not that you can take any 600-800 yard receiver and get 1,500 yards out of them by moving them to the slot

            Comment


            • #66
              What makes Cruz special is what he does after the catch, which is something that not many other slot receivers can do. With that being said, numbers tend to be inflated when a receiver is playing in the slot compared to what he would do on the outside especially when you take into account the system that is run here. I find it similar to Welker in Miami vs Welker in New England. The man should be paid like an elite slot receiver, but he shouldn't sniff Fitzgerald money and shouldn't make more than someone like Nicks.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                No. The slot position creates 600-800 yards. Cruz should get paid off what he creates on top of that. Somewhere around 800-1000 yards. Max he should get is about the contract colston got. 5 year ~37 mil


                I'm saying any moderately intelligent/tough receiver would have 600-800 yards in the slot. Not that you can take any 600-800 yard receiver and get 1,500 yards out of them by moving them to the slot
                OK...Now you're making no sense.
                You said in a previous post that Cruz should make "600-800 yards WR" money. Now you say he should be paid like Marcus Colston, who is a heck of a lot better than a 600-800 yard WR.
                And makes a hell of a lot more money than the pedestrian contract you say Cruz is worth.
                What the hell, Slippy!!!

                here's your comment......

                "My point is he should be paid like a 600-900 yard receiver."
                Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                  OK...Now you're making no sense.
                  You said in a previous post that Cruz should make "600-800 yards WR" money. Now you say he should be paid like Marcus Colston, who is a heck of a lot better than a 600-800 yard WR.
                  And makes a hell of a lot more money than the pedestrian contract you say Cruz is worth.
                  What the hell, Slippy!!!
                  I never said Cruz should get paid like he's a 600-800 yard receiver. Try reading again.

                  Cruz turned that 600-800 yards into 1,500 yards. That difference is what he is actually worth.

                  Colston is mostly a slot receiver as well. Who has similar numbers to Cruz.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                    I never said Cruz should get paid like he's a 600-800 yard receiver. Try reading again.

                    Cruz turned that 600-800 yards into 1,500 yards. That difference is what he is actually worth.

                    Colston is mostly a slot receiver as well. Who has similar numbers to Cruz.
                    You didn't?..........

                    "I never said anything about Cruz not being a good player. My point is he should be paid like a 600-900 yard receiver. Not a 1,500 yard receiver. If Cruz expects to be one of the highest paid receivers in the league he can find that money elsewhere. The giants meanwhile will find someone else who makes almost nothing and get 800 or so yards from them in the slot position".....


                    .....Love,

                    Slippy
                    Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                      Next year or this year? I agree for 2013, but not for 2014 nexcessarily
                      I wouldnt be so sure about even this year. Cruz is a RFA... Meaning he can field offers from other teams. The giants have the right to match any offer. if the offer is some CRAZY money then the giants will have to let him go. end of story. Also according to another Thread the Giants may not use their franchise tag. I thought they might with Cruz.. so there is no Guarantee that we start 2013 with both of them
                      Football has been very, very good to us.
                      After losing seasons 2013-15, the giants put up 11 wins in 16.. they are on way Back
                      But for now we can console ourselves with this fact-

                      # of Super Bowl victories since 1985:

                      1-Chicago, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Seattle
                      2-Washington, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore
                      3-San Francisco, Dallas, Denver
                      4-New York Giants!!!
                      5-NE
                      Let's make it 5 in 2016 so we can be on a LINE NE again!!!

                      ***Stat provided by "Schloss22"***

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by miked1958 View Post
                        I wouldnt be so sure about even this year. Cruz is a RFA... Meaning he can field offers from other teams. The giants have the right to match any offer. if the offer is some CRAZY money then the giants will have to let him go. end of story. Also according to another Thread the Giants may not use their franchise tag. I thought they might with Cruz.. so there is no Guarantee that we start 2013 with both of them
                        It's unlikely that a team will give up a 1st AND a big contract to Cruz. If it were one or the other, very possibly, but I think the combination will prove too rich for most GMs to seriously consider.

                        There'd be no good reason to use our franchise tag on Cruz. The franchise tag would cost us nearly $10m in salary this season, where as the tender would only cost $3m. I don't think the very, very, very slim possibility of getting an extra 1st would be worth the difference in pay this season.
                        Last edited by Drez; 02-19-2013, 02:50 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by miked1958 View Post
                          I wouldnt be so sure about even this year. Cruz is a RFA... Meaning he can field offers from other teams. The giants have the right to match any offer. if the offer is some CRAZY money then the giants will have to let him go. end of story. Also according to another Thread the Giants may not use their franchise tag. I thought they might with Cruz.. so there is no Guarantee that we start 2013 with both of them
                          Cruz will either negotiate a cap friendly long term contract, or get paid a little less than $2.5MM. Thats the tender amount.
                          I have said for weeks that I think he's worth something like 4 to 5 years and $26 to $30MM.
                          That's top 15 or so money which he is deserving of.
                          Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by miked1958 View Post
                            Also according to another Thread the Giants may not use their franchise tag. I thought they might with Cruz.. so there is no Guarantee that we start 2013 with both of them
                            The Giants also have the option of tendering him.
                            Placing a 1st round tender on Cruz would lock him in on a one-year, 2.88 million dollar contract. The only catch is that any team can acquire him if they give up a 1st round pick and are willing to sign Cruz to a new contract.

                            Given the terms, it's highly unlikely that Cruz will be playing for any other team this coming season.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                              Cruz will either negotiate a cap friendly long term contract, or get paid a little less than $2.5MM. Thats the tender amount.
                              I have said for weeks that I think he's worth something like 4 to 5 years and $26 to $30MM.
                              That's top 15 or so money which he is deserving of.
                              agreed
                              Football has been very, very good to us.
                              After losing seasons 2013-15, the giants put up 11 wins in 16.. they are on way Back
                              But for now we can console ourselves with this fact-

                              # of Super Bowl victories since 1985:

                              1-Chicago, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Seattle
                              2-Washington, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore
                              3-San Francisco, Dallas, Denver
                              4-New York Giants!!!
                              5-NE
                              Let's make it 5 in 2016 so we can be on a LINE NE again!!!

                              ***Stat provided by "Schloss22"***

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                                Its a minor point but that's not what you meant at all.
                                I said that he got the money up front and you retorted that it didn't effect when he got the money.
                                Lets keep it real here my friend.
                                How do you know exactly what I meant? I said it didn't change when he got the money. When I said that I meant 2012. Nothing more, nothing less. You presume too much.

                                Comment

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