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  • #61
    Originally posted by ozzie0075 View Post
    Today is was reported that Greg Jennings wants 12mil per year. So hopefully Cruz knows there is no way the Giants will come near that.
    I know I'm a broken record, but it's all negotiating strategy on both sides.
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
      Truly, we don't know what he's asking for. We know from John Mara that it was "too much" but we don't know what that is or was.
      Just putting 2&2 together. Yeah we don't know the exact price but I know what any agent in Cruz's position would be asking for. He's looking for top money for his client based on the previous two years of Cruz's production. Also the fact that Mara said what you mentioned further confirms it because he already expressed Cruz as a priority.
      "You killed my family, and I don't like that kind of thing."

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by titwio View Post
        Just putting 2&2 together. Yeah we don't know the exact price but I know what any agent in Cruz's position would be asking for. He's looking for top money for his client based on the previous two years of Cruz's production. Also the fact that Mara said what you mentioned further confirms it because he already expressed Cruz as a priority.
        Suppose to John Mara $7M was too much because of the CAP being so tight (when he made the comment)?
        “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
          Suppose to John Mara $7M was too much because of the CAP being so tight (when he made the comment)?
          I think Cruz's agent would be asking for more than that. I could be wrong but I really doubt it.
          "You killed my family, and I don't like that kind of thing."

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by titwio View Post
            I think Cruz's agent would be asking for more than that. I could be wrong but I really doubt it.
            We just don't know is my point. I would ask for the moon and take something reasonable
            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

            Comment


            • #66
              Just my 2 cents!!! I feel that the production of Cruz will be very hard to duplicate, if the Giants try to duplicate it with 2 or 3 different players consictency will be affected. Im sure you all know that Eli needs a go to guy, that go to guy over the last 2 years has been Cruz. Eli trusted Cruz especially on 3rd down.

              Yae I know Cruz had some problems (A Few) with hearing footsteps last season. With Hakeem Nicks injury problems since becoming a Giant, Cruz can and has proven that he can be that guy. What other Wide Out can you say is talented enough to do that on this team at this time?? If we draft one, we all know that because of the difficulty and intricasies of Gilbrides Offense , we'd be lucky to have one surpass the learning curve to be ready by say mid season. Cruz at this point in time is irreplaceable as far as this offense is concerned. I know that that statement is pretty bold, but past history has proven that our Offense takes a very long time to comprehend.

              Peace
              Dan
              Last edited by danme; 03-01-2013, 11:04 PM.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by rebelfan1966 View Post
                Where is Steve Smith now? Don't get me wrong, I don't think for one second Cruz is going anyplace, but if it did happen, just thinking about possible replacements.
                I think we would modify our offense and have more outside targets to Randle and the TE, and our slot receiver would be a 3rd/4th option. I like the idea of Nicks and Randle both on the outside putting pressure on the opposing teams secondary. I think Randle will step up this year.
                Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by danme View Post
                  Just my 2 cents!!! I feel that the production of Cruz will be very hard to duplicate, if the Giants try to duplicate it with 2 or 3 different players consictency will be affected. Im sure you all know that Eli needs a go to guy, that go to guy over the last 2 years has been Cruz. Eli trusted Cruz especially on 3rd down.

                  Yae I know Cruz had some problems (A Few) with hearing footsteps last season. With Hakeem Nicks injury problems since becoming a Giant, Cruz can and has proven that he can be that guy. What other Wide Out can you say is talented enough to do that on this team at this time?? If we draft one, we all know that because of the difficulty and intricasies of Gilbrides Offense , we'd be lucky to have one surpass the learning curve to be ready by say mid season. Cruz at this point in time is irreplaceable as far as this offense is concerned. I know that that statement is pretty bold, but past history has proven that our Offense takes a very long time to comprehend.

                  Peace
                  Dan
                  I really don't think Cruz has proven he can be "that guy." When Nicks was hurt and playing, Cruz's number were horrible. Not just down, they were horrible! The whole league watched as Victor proved he wasn't a legit #1 receiver. If Victor leaves you've got a starting pair of Nicks and Randle, I think a lot of teams would be happy to take that. Then you've got to find a slot receiver, a role Hixon or Jerrnigan could fill, or pehaps a FA or draftee. I love Victor in his current role; but if his agent is looking over $6-7 Mil/ per year, he's way out of line. I'd be surprised if the Giants go much more than $5.5mil for him.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by NorwoodBlue View Post
                    I really don't think Cruz has proven he can be "that guy." When Nicks was hurt and playing, Cruz's number were horrible. Not just down, they were horrible! The whole league watched as Victor proved he wasn't a legit #1 receiver. If Victor leaves you've got a starting pair of Nicks and Randle, I think a lot of teams would be happy to take that. Then you've got to find a slot receiver, a role Hixon or Jerrnigan could fill, or pehaps a FA or draftee. I love Victor in his current role; but if his agent is looking over $6-7 Mil/ per year, he's way out of line. I'd be surprised if the Giants go much more than $5.5mil for him.
                    Apparently you dont understand the intracasies of how defenses work in the NFL. (This is in no way a put down to you so dont take it the wrong way)

                    When you have 2 Wide Outs that can arguably be #1 recievers in this league someone will be open 85% of the time. Yes Cruz;s numbers were down and here is why.

                    WIthout Nicks on the field and when he was on the field he couldn't run flat out and his cuts were lame as all hell, so the Defenses that the Giants played, shifted their coverage to Victor Cruz. He was DOUBLED On every play and alot of the time the other safety was underneath. (Cruz beat the coverage more times than not) The reason being for that is because RANDLE didnt scare anyone. So defenses Singled up on Randle and put their BEST CORNER on Cruz With a Safety Doubleing him up, and more times that not the other Safety was playing underneath. There it is plain and Simple as to why Cruz's numbers were down. Trust me no one fears any of our Backup Recieversin this league

                    Cruz and Nicks on the field at the same time (when Nicks is healthy) scares Defense's. Those 2 recievers are arguably the best Wide Reciever tandem in the league. Although BOTH NICKS AND CRUZ's numbers were down this season (Mostly because Nicks was hurt) but if your going to look at numbers you have to look at the WHOLE PICTURE and why the numbers were down.

                    Numbers/Stats NEVER NEVER tell the whole story or address the BIG PICTURE.


                    Peace
                    Dan
                    Last edited by danme; 03-03-2013, 03:36 PM. Reason: Spelling and Additional Information

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by rebelfan1966 View Post
                      Where is Steve Smith now? Don't get me wrong, I don't think for one second Cruz is going anyplace, but if it did happen, just thinking about possible replacements.
                      Smith is not the answer and you are right, Cruz is not going anywhere.
                      No one remembers who came in second.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by jomo View Post
                        Smith is not the answer and you are right, Cruz is not going anywhere.
                        i think they will tender him. I doubt anyone would be willing to pay the 8-10m a year it would take to sign him plus a first round draft pick. But will see
                        Football has been very, very good to us.
                        After losing seasons 2013-15, the giants put up 11 wins in 16.. they are on way Back
                        But for now we can console ourselves with this fact-

                        # of Super Bowl victories since 1985:

                        1-Chicago, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Seattle
                        2-Washington, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore
                        3-San Francisco, Dallas, Denver
                        4-New York Giants!!!
                        5-NE
                        Let's make it 5 in 2016 so we can be on a LINE NE again!!!

                        ***Stat provided by "Schloss22"***

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by fizzlesticks View Post
                          Cruz can't leave.

                          He's the only current Giant left that I have a jersey for.
                          I am with ya on this one!!!! I am tired of buying jerseys only to have to retire them after 2-3 years for one reason or another!!! We need to sign him for this reason only. Ok, ok, One other reason........He kicks ***.
                          "KILL'EM ALL AND LET THE PARAMEDICS SORT'EM OUT!"

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by danme View Post
                            Apparently you dont understand the intracasies of how defenses work in the NFL. (This is in no way a put down to you so dont take it the wrong way)

                            When you have 2 Wide Outs that can arguably be #1 recievers in this league someone will be open 85% of the time. Yes Cruz;s numbers were down and here is why.

                            WIthout Nicks on the field and when he was on the field he couldn't run flat out and his cuts were lame as all hell, so the Defenses that the Giants played, shifted their coverage to Victor Cruz. He was DOUBLED On every play and alot of the time the other safety was underneath. (Cruz beat the coverage more times than not) The reason being for that is because RANDLE didnt scare anyone. So defenses Singled up on Randle and put their BEST CORNER on Cruz With a Safety Doubleing him up, and more times that not the other Safety was playing underneath. There it is plain and Simple as to why Cruz's numbers were down. Trust me no one fears any of our Backup Recieversin this league

                            Cruz and Nicks on the field at the same time (when Nicks is healthy) scares Defense's. Those 2 recievers are arguably the best Wide Reciever tandem in the league. Although BOTH NICKS AND CRUZ's numbers were down this season (Mostly because Nicks was hurt) but if your going to look at numbers you have to look at the WHOLE PICTURE and why the numbers were down.

                            Numbers/Stats NEVER NEVER tell the whole story or address the BIG PICTURE.


                            Peace
                            Dan
                            Nicks, when healthy, can consistently win routes when covered up, either singled or doubled. And he can do it on the outside where the route options are much more limited. Cruz' numbers dipped because he couldn't routinely beat those coverages. And honestly, if you can't win routes when you're covered up, you're not worth top receiver money.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by danielboone View Post
                              I think people are really underestimating Victor Cruz. This is no one-game lucky to be here player. This is the guy who has led the team in receiving two years straight even setting a team all-time record one of those years. This is the guy who played ahead of all those guys you think will easily replace him. In other words he beat them out in practice and in game performance. And people are willing to trade him so easily for an unknown late first round pick? The percentage for first rounders turning into first rate players is much smaller than people here realize.
                              +1000 !!! Its about time that someone actually states this. Cruz is NOT a one man NFL show, but with proper placing of personnel around him, I truly believe he is a game changer for us. We cannot afford to lose him at this point. And thats the bottom line.
                              "KILL'EM ALL AND LET THE PARAMEDICS SORT'EM OUT!"

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by danielboone View Post
                                I think people are really underestimating Victor Cruz. This is no one-game lucky to be here player. This is the guy who has led the team in receiving two years straight even setting a team all-time record one of those years. This is the guy who played ahead of all those guys you think will easily replace him. In other words he beat them out in practice and in game performance. And people are willing to trade him so easily for an unknown late first round pick? The percentage for first rounders turning into first rate players is much smaller than people here realize.
                                No sane person is saying that Cruz isn't a great receiver. However, he isn't the best receiver on the team. He may be the most dynamic, but that doesn't mean he's the best. I'd be reticent to give him much more than the $5m-$8m range.

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