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  • #16
    Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
    I'm not making this up Slip. I'm a lifetime fan of the U (Miami University), so remember the draft distinctly. That was the wrap on Joseph even in college. He had top 10-15 talent and no motivation. His stock dropped because of this reputation. His work ethic was questionable even for a DT. You may be right in saying he didn't have a character flaw. He may just not have cared about playing football, to those of us who love football this is a definite character flaw. LOL!
    Right, it is, but its a completely different type of issue than having an arrest record

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    • #17
      Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
      Right, it is, but its a completely different type of issue than having an arrest record
      Agree 100% there huge difference between lack of work ethic and having an arrest record. There will be a lot of good players available for the Giants at 19 so why take a guy you have concerns about.

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      • #18
        Ogletree could very well be a top 10 talent in this draft.. maybe a All-Pro for years? does JR takes the risk?... doudt it

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ozzie0075 View Post
          Agree 100% there huge difference between lack of work ethic and having an arrest record. There will be a lot of good players available for the Giants at 19 so why take a guy you have concerns about.
          He looks special. Head and shoulders above anybody else at ILB in this draft. We could put him at OLB like Cincy did with Vontaze Burfict and he could be high impact right now. I think he would be productive at MLB as a rookie.

          Honestly, I don't think he will be there at 19.
          Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

          http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

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          • #20
            we have 3 OLB's if Rivers is re-signed. We need a thumper in the middle that is still athletic enough to cover in the pass game. Ogletree will get swallowed up in the run game as a mike

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            • #21
              If he takes Olgetree in the first round, which I don't think he will, he's pretty much acknowledging that our linebacker situation is pretty ****ed

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              • #22
                Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                This is a thread stemming from the Alex Ogeltree thread. I don't think the Giants have some magic formula for knowing a players character. We err on the safe side. We stay away from any player with red flags in the first round in the JR/TC era.

                So far it's worked out, but good people don't make good players. Good players make good players. Vontaze Burfict wasn't drafted in part because of his character issues (he tends to be a hot head on the field), yet all year long he played like a first round pick. **For those wanting to argue this point- don't. Black Madden has spoken.

                Had I scouted LT in college, and if he had failed a drug test in college I would have still drafted LT. All of this talk about character is baloney. DD is a stand up guy as is Webster, yet how many of us want them to be starters next year at their current level of play. Character doesn't make plays and making plays doesn't give you character. I totally understand not drafting a guy because of the risk he poses of being suspended, but that is about wins and losses not about who's a good person and who's a dirtbag. I realize I don't know any of these kids. I just want them to make plays.
                Well, I think I largely agree with you but let me break it down a little. If a guy can't control his impulses and is a risk to commit a felony every time he goes out with the boys, that is a bad risk for us. If a guy can't control his impulses and get to practice on time, adhere to team rules etc, that is a bad risk for us. I can understand and overlook youthful indiscretions with a guy who is growing into a man. What we need are serious athletes who will put team above all else. Plax for example represents the type of player we do not want to draft. Bradshaw was the type we do want to draft. We don't need choir boys but we do need totally focused team players who put team ahead of all else.
                No one remembers who came in second.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                  This is a thread stemming from the Alex Ogeltree thread. I don't think the Giants have some magic formula for knowing a players character. We err on the safe side. We stay away from any player with red flags in the first round in the JR/TC era.
                  True but I remember the hesitation on Bradshaw, although he was a late pick in the 7th round there were concerns over some trouble he got into in college for stealing a Playstation. IIRC he served voluntary time during the offseason early in his career to make up for it.

                  The Giants will forgive mistakes but they look for players with character.
                  8-Time NFL Champions - 1927 1934 1938 1956 1986 1990 2007 2011

                  "You win close games because you're prepared to do it. It doesn't just come down to luck." -- Bill Parcells

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by FBomb View Post
                    Pisses me off!!! We should hire Gil Brandt.....dude is a "genious"
                    HA. Nice call back, but let's not start that again
                    Last edited by GiantRoc; 03-03-2013, 10:27 PM.
                    # 80 (For FBomb)

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                    • #25
                      Will Hill, Bradshaw, Manningham, Austin, Rhett Bhomar jump to mind. Granted, none of them are #1 picks, but JR clearly has no problem taking a chance on a guy who may have made serious mistakes, but still might be able to help us. It's a risk/reward analysis, and I don't think there's too many guys we'd take off the draft board completely because of character concerns.

                      It's football players JR is looking for, not Eagle Scouts.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                        This is a thread stemming from the Alex Ogeltree thread. I don't think the Giants have some magic formula for knowing a players character. We err on the safe side. We stay away from any player with red flags in the first round in the JR/TC era.

                        So far it's worked out, but good people don't make good players. Good players make good players. Vontaze Burfict wasn't drafted in part because of his character issues (he tends to be a hot head on the field), yet all year long he played like a first round pick. **For those wanting to argue this point- don't. Black Madden has spoken.

                        Had I scouted LT in college, and if he had failed a drug test in college I would have still drafted LT. All of this talk about character is baloney. DD is a stand up guy as is Webster, yet how many of us want them to be starters next year at their current level of play. Character doesn't make plays and making plays doesn't give you character. I totally understand not drafting a guy because of the risk he poses of being suspended, but that is about wins and losses not about who's a good person and who's a dirtbag. I realize I don't know any of these kids. I just want them to make plays.
                        Aside of the past and recent history about the Giants not pulling the trigger in 1st round LB's and always staying for the most part away form players with character issues if Ogletree is available at 19 th he will be a need /value player for the Giants. Can't ignore the fact he is the most highly rated ILB coming out this year and for sure FO will give consideration in drafting him.
                        " Success is never final, but failure can be " B.P.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jomo View Post
                          Well, I think I largely agree with you but let me break it down a little. If a guy can't control his impulses and is a risk to commit a felony every time he goes out with the boys, that is a bad risk for us. If a guy can't control his impulses and get to practice on time, adhere to team rules etc, that is a bad risk for us. I can understand and overlook youthful indiscretions with a guy who is growing into a man. What we need are serious athletes who will put team above all else. Plax for example represents the type of player we do not want to draft. Bradshaw was the type we do want to draft. We don't need choir boys but we do need totally focused team players who put team ahead of all else.
                          Amen to this. I'm not referring to Ogletree as the "Dez Bryant of LB" for nothing... do you REALLY want to have to force Mara to hire a full-time babysitter squad for this kid?

                          I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite team in the NFL.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Toadofsteel View Post
                            Amen to this. I'm not referring to Ogletree as the "Dez Bryant of LB" for nothing... do you REALLY want to have to force Mara to hire a full-time babysitter squad for this kid?
                            comparing ogeltree to bryant is a bit overkill.

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                            • #29
                              I hope they do pick ogeltree so I can see peoples heads explode up in this piece.

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                              • #30
                                If he gets picked i'm going to have nightmares about him shooting himself in a nightclub... but then again JR is the one doing the homework on the draft class. On the other hand, if JR picks him and he goes and gets arrested for something, I'm going to have to hand in my "in reese we trust" card...

                                I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite team in the NFL.

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