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  • #16
    Originally posted by CowboysSuck View Post
    CWebb is proven, he just had an off year.
    CWebb has proven he is no longer the same player and is past his prime.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by CowboysSuck View Post
      Stevie Brown almost led the league in INT's. Cwebb has been nothing short of great for us, minus a few games last year. Cullen Jenkins is a respectable vet. Kiwi will be a welcome addition to the DE rotation. What is so appalling about what I am saying?

      It's ok to worry about Prince. And hope JPP returns to form. Its ok to think Linval isnt the best DT on our team.
      If Prince was still raw last year, I don't even want to know what his ceiling is.

      Brown, despite having 8 picks, wasn't all that spectacular in coverage. His blown coverage directly resulted in a few big TDs.

      While I think CWeb is going to rebound, I don't think he's going to be as dominant as he used to be. Prince is our #1 CB right now. CWeb was bad for more than just a few games last year, though. Considering his age and the considerable drop off in play, it is a concern whether or not CWeb is going to bounce back or if last year was a sign of permanent decline.

      Linval played well, considering he had crap playing next to him all year.

      JPP, while not racking up a ton of sacks, still was great against the run and got more consistent pressure than any of our other linemen. Also, while TC may have said that JPP should shed a few pounds, that doesn't mean he's overweight. It just means he's not at his optimum playing weight. Weight for a DE, especially a guy like JPP, is very fluid while he and the coaching and conditioning staffs try to figure out how to maximize his strength while not losing his athleticism. Lowering his weight should also help with his conditioning. I don't have the stats in front of me, but I'd be shocked if JPP didn't lead the team in defensive snaps.

      Outside of the SB run last year, Tuck has played like crap the last two years. I don't know if his head and/or heart is truly in the game anymore, or if he's struggling with some greater demon that might be affecting his play (such as clinical depression). He is a question mark going forward. If nothing else, more so than JPP.

      Kiwi is anything but a hole. He's coming back to DE. He might not be the best pass rusher, but he adequate. He's also good against the run. He's not "damaged" or anything like that from having had to play LB for a couple years. He'll slip back into his old position like a hand into a glove.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
        What holes to plug? LB really is the only one. And they just brought in Connor, resigned Rivers, have been developing J Will and Paysinger.
        we just need another good corner like prince.

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        • #19
          2012 stats
          Defense overall- 31st
          Passing- 28th
          Rushing- 25th

          2009 stats
          Defense overall- 19th
          Passing- 18th
          Rushing- 19th

          Bill Sheridan got fired that season, and he was working with less talent.(ie: CC Brown, Aaron Rouse). It's absurd that you guys don't think there is a personnel issue, whether it be players or Coaching. There's no need for an overhaul, but with numbers like that, it shows that there is work that needs to be done, fact not opinion. I'd think you guys would empathize more with OP's topic. I don't understand why some of you are acclimating yourselves to mediocrity. This defense is not good enough the way it is right now.

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          • #20
            im excited to see kiwi at DE. people dont give him enough credit bc of the injuries and switching to LB back n forth. Kiwi had almost an exact carbon copy of JPPs year last season when Kiwi was also a 3rd year DE...he had games of dominance from the DE spot, a 3 sack game vs Washington (or philly cant quite remember) and well, i just never got how some of our more seasoned posters here devalued Kiwi as a DE.

            I def see or saw the potential there and the ceiling was high. the reason we moved him in the frst place is bc he was such a beast we needed him on the field but with stray and a osi/tuck combo in their prime, how do u get a younger guy the snaps? move him to LB where he isnt near the player as he is at DE imo even tho he was an adequate Sam.

            kiwi had a ton of athleticism enterin the league and he has unreal wingspan...wouldnt surprise me if he has a 10 sack season

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            • #21
              Originally posted by EJ Blue View Post
              2012 stats
              Defense overall- 31st
              Passing- 28th
              Rushing- 25th

              2009 stats
              Defense overall- 19th
              Passing- 18th
              Rushing- 19th

              Bill Sheridan got fired that season, and he was working with less talent.(ie: CC Brown, Aaron Rouse). It's absurd that you guys don't think there is a personnel issue, whether it be players or Coaching. There's no need for an overhaul, but with numbers like that, it shows that there is work that needs to be done, fact not opinion. I'd think you guys would empathize more with OP's topic. I don't understand why some of you are acclimating yourselves to mediocrity. This defense is not good enough the way it is right now.
              What was our ranking in point against and turnovers created? The two most important stats for a defense.
              Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                What was our ranking in point against and turnovers created? The two most important stats for a defense.
                I didn't bother to look. From memory, I recall us getting blown out by the Saints, then we got blown out more frequently, especially down the stretch in 2009, then by the Panthers game, this defense quit playing football and allowed anything to happen points wise. Whereas the 2012 defense had a MUCH higher turnover ratio which kept us in some games, but they still couldn't stop people from scoring.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by EJ Blue View Post
                  I didn't bother to look. From memory, I recall us getting blown out by the Saints, then we got blown out more frequently, especially down the stretch in 2009, then by the Panthers game, this defense quit playing football and allowed anything to happen points wise. Whereas the 2012 defense had a MUCH higher turnover ratio which kept us in some games, but they still couldn't stop people from scoring.
                  Well we were 12th best in points allowed and 3rd in turnovers created.
                  Our defense last year, while not great, was far better than the ridiculous "yards per game" rating suggests. We were essentially in the middle of the pack.
                  Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                    Well we were 12th best in points allowed and 3rd in turnovers created.
                    Our defense last year, while not great, was far better than the ridiculous "yards per game" rating suggests. We were essentially in the middle of the pack.

                    Points per drive is the ultimate evaluator. It basically states how often a team can score on you when they have the ball. So that covers your turnover stats and scoring defense. The Giants were 19th in that department since they only had 170 drives against that defense (lowest in the league). They were also ranked 20th in TDs allowed per drive. It basically menas that they let teams control the game and the clock by not being able to force them off the field.

                    Face facts the Bucaneers, Bengals Ravens and Falcons destroyed them. Even in close games anytime they were counted on to make a big stop they folded like a cheap tent.

                    The offense who everybody wants to "run the ball more" was ranked 2nd in points per drive and 5th in yards per drive but was only given 169 drives all year long because this awful defense couldn't get anyone off the field. How about leave well enough alone ?

                    The cold hard truth is that this defense was pathetic and the fact that Fewell still has a job is a joke.The Giants spent more on defensive cap sapce than anyone but the Jets. Sheridan's defense was better all around and they quit on him. The clowns that compare Fewell to Spagnuolo are delusional.

                    As far as I am concerned this defense is a bottom feeder that should have been scrapped and rebuilt this year

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by BlueBlooded1979 View Post
                      Points per drive is the ultimate evaluator. It basically states how often a team can score on you when they have the ball. So that covers your turnover stats and scoring defense. The Giants were 19th in that department since they only had 170 drives against that defense (lowest in the league). They were also ranked 20th in TDs allowed per drive. It basically menas that they let teams control the game and the clock by not being able to force them off the field.

                      Face facts the Bucaneers, Bengals Ravens and Falcons destroyed them. Even in close games anytime they were counted on to make a big stop they folded like a cheap tent.

                      The offense who everybody wants to "run the ball more" was ranked 2nd in points per drive and 5th in yards per drive but was only given 169 drives all year long because this awful defense couldn't get anyone off the field. How about leave well enough alone ?

                      The cold hard truth is that this defense was pathetic and the fact that Fewell still has a job is a joke.The Giants spent more on defensive cap sapce than anyone but the Jets. Sheridan's defense was better all around and they quit on him. The clowns that compare Fewell to Spagnuolo are delusional.

                      As far as I am concerned this defense is a bottom feeder that should have been scrapped and rebuilt this year
                      i think the bucs game, ya know when we finally took the lead late and the D let TB walk down the field in succeeding drives in like 3 plays, that the reality of the situation hit home. we all know im a big homer, i couldnt even really convince myself of our D ability after that 1. and that was the story the rest of the year, big play TD after big play TD, sometimes the O was able to keep a lead sometimes we were blown out...

                      but i agree, some here claim the D did its job and it was the O who is more to blame or even more comical, the assertion the D struggled because of the O....the D was PUTRID the majority of the season with maybe a few AT MOST quality performances...9ers game, GB game...Carolina game, and really the O was more dominant if anythng which helped the D out...

                      Im excited and think Kiwi to DE will be part of the solution. A.Brown in rd 2 would g a long way too imo

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                      • #26
                        and, what really scares me, is our record w/o KP...thought last yrs D was terrible??? It was its worst when we didn have KP...

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                        • #27
                          CB scares me the most, and without a stud DT more getting run on all day like welcome mats... If things play out draft day how they do in my head we can be right back in the thick of it, but we can all dream cant we? Jerry Reese knows what he is doing, two rings should display his technique is effective. I would counter my own point and say that I pray we get some impact playmaking lb's and ballhawking cb;s in the draft...
                          NYG Til I Die... Even Tatted in "Big Blue" Blood

                          Is it football season yet?

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                          • #28
                            It should worry everyone. They have one reliable DE, one reliable DT, one reliable CB, a couple of promising Safeties, and a patch work group of LB's.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by nhpgiantsfan View Post
                              The holes are plugged but they are not plugged with good talent. CWebb, Stevie, Hosley, Tuck, Jenkins, Kiwi, and the entire LB unit, are all question marks.

                              I guess I just should've said the only guys that we can have any confidence in is JPP, Prince, and Linval.
                              Shouldn't we wait to see how they play?
                              “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by EJ Blue View Post
                                I didn't bother to look. From memory, I recall us getting blown out by the Saints, then we got blown out more frequently, especially down the stretch in 2009, then by the Panthers game, this defense quit playing football and allowed anything to happen points wise. Whereas the 2012 defense had a MUCH higher turnover ratio which kept us in some games, but they still couldn't stop people from scoring.
                                They actually where ranked 12th in points against so they didn't just get scored on at will. The last two losses of the season throw those stats up a bit and the entire team did not show up in those games so the offense needs to eat it too. A lot of those points where set up by offensive TO's as well. No, they where not a great unit last year and might be even worse this year, but those rankings are based on YPG and the difference between the 31st defense and the 10th defense was 50 yards a game.

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