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Invest in OL to ensure Eli has a 20 yr career?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
    true. good point.


    then i'd ask you, would it be worth it to take from the defensive allotment to get that OL in this offensive driven league? esp considering our D has been pretty awful the past 2 reg. seasons...
    While I agree that the Defense has been pretty bad, we also have some young guns for the line and secondary who are here for a reason. I think the OLine has to be our focus both short and long term.
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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    • #47
      Originally posted by bearbryant View Post
      I agree... Go OL in the first 7 rounds!!!
      lol

      Stand with Cruz!
      80

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      • #48
        Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
        true. good point.


        then i'd ask you, would it be worth it to take from the defensive allotment to get that OL in this offensive driven league? esp considering our D has been pretty awful the past 2 reg. seasons...
        We've won 2 SB's with balance, and I would keep things close from a payroll standpoint going forward. But I certainly understand your position since we have a very good thing at QB. It makes sense to surround Eli with enough talent to allow him to be at his best. Where you and I differ is that I'm not interested in his personal success, only for that of the team. If he does well, we do well and vice versa.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Drez View Post
          Sacks are not entirely a good indication of how well the line is pass protecting. They gave up a ton of pressure. The lack of sacks is mostly on Eli, not the OL. We were rated as the 22nd or so pass blocking OL in the league. If that's your idea of good, then we have vastly different concepts of what good are.
          Im aware, Eli does know when to get rid of the football. I still watch the same team everyone else does, and I dont see a problem with the pass blocking, in my opinion, it was one of the upsides to last year. No matter how good Elis pocket presence may be, without a line, your gonna get sacked a lot. This line really isnt as bad as many here seem to think.

          edit - all Qbs see a lot of pressure, even the best lines give up pressure against strong defensive fronts. We have a good Oline, when compared across the league. Im not worried about this line at all, Im more worried about having to replace 3 or 4 of these guys next off season.
          Last edited by StrahanSoup92; 03-29-2013, 04:38 PM.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Drez View Post
            Eli covers for the deficiencies of the OL and often makes the OL look better than they are, particularly when it comes to the number of sacks he takes. That is a cold, hard fact.
            Im sorry but I disagree with you, his pocket presence and ability to get the ball out may save a few sacks, but if the Oline isnt doing there job, he would have been sacked a lot more, and that is a fact.

            I still think this is a top ten Oline, no doubt, at least for one more year.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
              LOL, I know that sounds crazy. But hear me out.

              Most QBs do not have the luxury of going, what, 9 seasons going on 10, without missing a game. It just dont happen.

              The few times it has, its produced a guy like Favre.



              Theoretically, Eli would own every passing stat including ints, if he were to play another 10 years out of sheer numbers/volume...kinda like Favre.

              Now, I know every franchise wants a franchise QB, but they also want that franchise HoF all time great QB too. It raises the value of the franchise and makes it more storied. Ex. Babe Ruth and the Yanks, Michael Jordan and the Bulls, Favre and the Packers (even tho that Jets/Vikings spiel)...do you think that at some point, the FO has wondered about this topic?

              If we could invest in an OL that ENSURES Eli gets touched minimally, he should be able to play for as long as possible...I don't see a reason he couldn't rival Favres streak in terms of physical ability. I know its crazy to think anyone hits favres mark and im not saying i think eli does im just saying i think his body could hold up were it needed to...

              So, wouldnt it make sense then to invest in OL before anything else. Like, I'd make sure I'd give him a legit impenetrable wall...


              crazy homer topic i know, its offseason...sue me.
              Eli will NOT have a 20 year NFL career.....be verrrrrry happy if he has a 15 year Giant career.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                There is a slight (and very slight) hint of truth in this, but only in the context that Eli tends to get rid of the ball quickly which limits the amount of sacks we give up. But the reality is that Eli is a different player when he has time. When he has time to set his feet and read coverage, his confidence level goes up tremendously. In this situation, he can make every throw on the field. When there is a lot of pressure, he is prone to throwing the ball too quickly. He doesn't tend to wait until a play develops, and generally can make some horrible decisions.
                Now this is certainly true to an extent of all QB's. But the "Beta" on Eli is greater than most.
                This is why I have been emphasizing the O line all off season. I want the "Good Eli" next year. The best way to get that guy that we all love, is to protect him to the max. That's our best ticket to a SB this season.
                It's not a slight hint of truth. It is total truth. Our sack numbers are as low as they are due more to Eli than the prowess of the OL. That is the only claim I've made. I do not know why you and Rosie are trying to turn this into a discussion of how Eli plays under pressure, but it does not have any bearing on the fact that our sack numbers are more a reflection of Eli getting rid of the ball than the OL giving Eli a ton of time.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                  We had a lot of guys that didn't play very well last season and Eli was one of them.
                  And I ask again, what does that have to do with anything I said?

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                    We've won 2 SB's with balance, and I would keep things close from a payroll standpoint going forward. But I certainly understand your position since we have a very good thing at QB. It makes sense to surround Eli with enough talent to allow him to be at his best. Where you and I differ is that I'm not interested in his personal success, only for that of the team. If he does well, we do well and vice versa.
                    well to be clear its not really my position, im just throwing out a thought i had...i know it was kinda comical but i think the discussions been pretty good.

                    imo, id prob agree with ur statement that we won with balance and id stay that way. i think RF summed it up well

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Drez View Post
                      It's not a slight hint of truth. It is total truth. Our sack numbers are as low as they are due more to Eli than the prowess of the OL. That is the only claim I've made. I do not know why you and Rosie are trying to turn this into a discussion of how Eli plays under pressure, but it does not have any bearing on the fact that our sack numbers are more a reflection of Eli getting rid of the ball than the OL giving Eli a ton of time.
                      No. Eli reduces the number of sacks because he doesn't like to hang in the pocket and wait for receivers to break open amid a pass rush.
                      That's a far cry from "making the O line look good".
                      Even TC said before the 2011 season that he wanted Eli to take more sacks. Guess what, in 2011 he did. He also threw it away more instead of chucking it early into coverage. And we did pretty well as a team.
                      In 2012, he reverted to the guy who threw the ball too soon often.
                      Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by StrahanSoup92 View Post
                        Im sorry but I disagree with you, his pocket presence and ability to get the ball out may save a few sacks, but if the Oline isnt doing there job, he would have been sacked a lot more, and that is a fact.

                        I still think this is a top ten Oline, no doubt, at least for one more year.
                        no its not a fact at all and ud prob be surprised to learn ur prob in the 1% minority to feel the way u posted here

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by StrahanSoup92 View Post
                          Im sorry but I disagree with you, his pocket presence and ability to get the ball out may save a few sacks, but if the Oline isnt doing there job, he would have been sacked a lot more, and that is a fact.

                          I still think this is a top ten Oline, no doubt, at least for one more year.
                          You disagreeing with me doesn't change the veracity of my statement. Eli, viz our sack numbers, makes the OL look better than they are by being able to either adjust the protections of the RBs and TEs or by unloading the ball before the pressure gets home.

                          If you think our OL has been a top 10 OL the past 2 seasons, then I really have no idea what to say to that. Eli was the most pressured QB in the NFL in '11, being pressured on ~40% of his dropbacks and helped the team to having the last place rushing attack. Last year, while there was improvement (more in run blocking than pass protecting), Eli was still harassed with frequency. I think the OL ranked out as the 22 or so pass blocking OL. That is not top 10.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                            No. Eli reduces the number of sacks because he doesn't like to hang in the pocket and wait for receivers to break open amid a pass rush.
                            That's a far cry from "making the O line look good".
                            Even TC said before the 2011 season that he wanted Eli to take more sacks. Guess what, in 2011 he did. He also threw it away more instead of chucking it early into coverage. And we did pretty well as a team.
                            In 2012, he reverted to the guy who threw the ball too soon often.
                            Viz our sack numbers, Eli makes the OL look good. It isn't because the OL is giving Eli a ton of time that they only gave up 20 sacks, it's because Eli either kept a TE or RB in or got rid of the ball, what happened after that not being germane to the discussion.

                            It isn't about him not being patient enough to let a receiver get open, it's that 1) last season receivers just weren't getting open, 2) the OL wasn't giving Eli enough time to allow a receiver to get open.

                            So, again, viz our sack numbers, Eli makes the OL look better than they are.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Drez View Post
                              You disagreeing with me doesn't change the veracity of my statement. Eli, viz our sack numbers, makes the OL look better than they are by being able to either adjust the protections of the RBs and TEs or by unloading the ball before the pressure gets home.

                              If you think our OL has been a top 10 OL the past 2 seasons, then I really have no idea what to say to that. Eli was the most pressured QB in the NFL in '11, being pressured on ~40% of his dropbacks and helped the team to having the last place rushing attack. Last year, while there was improvement (more in run blocking than pass protecting), Eli was still harassed with frequency. I think the OL ranked out as the 22 or so pass blocking OL. That is not top 10.
                              Since no one thinks they're any good, how is it anyone is making them look better.
                              Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Drez View Post
                                Viz our sack numbers, Eli makes the OL look good. It isn't because the OL is giving Eli a ton of time that they only gave up 20 sacks, it's because Eli either kept a TE or RB in or got rid of the ball, what happened after that not being germane to the discussion.

                                It isn't about him not being patient enough to let a receiver get open, it's that 1) last season receivers just weren't getting open, 2) the OL wasn't giving Eli enough time to allow a receiver to get open.

                                So, again, viz our sack numbers, Eli makes the OL look better than they are.
                                But everyone thinks they stink! I don't get you're point.
                                Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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