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  • #46
    Originally posted by gmen46 View Post
    The clear implication, to me, of your repeated comments of "he's a very good QB, but not an all time great", amounts to saying "he's (just) a decent QB", regardless of whether you, MS, have ever said the words "he just a decent QB". Especially when read in the context of your response to anyone's comments about Eli. Perhaps I read you incorrectly, and if so, I apologize. But that is how you come across, relating to most if not all your Eli remarks. In any event, it is--as they say--what it is.

    But perhaps you have chosen to "miss" the point of the first half of my post. The apparent "all" or "nothing" point when most on this board refer to Eli.

    As to your second response, I think we are in agreement. The 2012 Crabtree/Manningham example is to me an excellent example of how the either/or debate about who makes whom, vis a vie QB/WR, is so very challengible. Interestingly, Crabtree, by his curious statement a few months ago, believes the QB "makes" the WR. Who'd a thunk it?
    My "implication" is exactly what I say. And that that he is a "very good QB". Only on the Giants MB does "very good QB" really mean "just OK". In any other forum around the world, "very good" actually means "very good".
    Only those with agenda's would interpret it in any other way.
    Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by jax5338 View Post
      looks like billy and his girlfriend are playing water polo or something....
      Originally posted by FBomb View Post
      Clorophyll, more like BORE-a-phyll...........right?
      O'DOYLE RULES!
      "You killed my family, and I don't like that kind of thing."

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
        My "implication" is exactly what I say. And that that he is a "very good QB". Only on the Giants MB does "very good QB" really mean "just OK". In any other forum around the world, "very good" actually means "very good".
        Only those with agenda's would interpret it in any other way.
        Sure.

        As I said, maybe I read you incorrectly on this particular subject. But I don't think so.

        The "those with agendas" remark cuts both ways.

        Very few "very good" QBs are two time Super Bowl MVPs. None, in fact.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by gmen46 View Post
          Sure.

          As I said, maybe I read you incorrectly on this particular subject. But I don't think so.

          The "those with agendas" remark cuts both ways.

          Very few "very good" QBs are two time Super Bowl MVPs. None, in fact.
          He has accomplished a lot by being the QB for 2 SB winning teams. There is no disputing that.
          But stop with the SB MVP stuff. His offenses scored a total of 38 points in both games. they were team wins. Its a vote cast in a minute after the game and usually goes to the QB. Although I thought he deserved it in 2011.
          He's very good. He also has moments of greatness. he also has moments where he looks like a high school QB. He's a high beta guy.
          Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Captain Chaos View Post
            First of all welcome to the board, second understand your frustration; deal with it you're a Giants fan....
            That was a very tough read but I will follow your lead.............wecome to the boards.
            No one remembers who came in second.

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            • #51
              GIANTS RULE!!!!!!! I believe in them taking it this year. Do you?
              2017 Mock Draft

              1st: Forrest Lamp, OG Western Kentucky
              2nd: Caleb Brantley, DT Florida
              3rd: Gerald Everett, TE South Alabama
              4th: Dont'a Foreman, RB Texas
              5th: Damontae Kazee, CB San Diego State
              6th: KD Cannon, WR Baylor
              7th: Jalen Reeves-Maybin, LB Tennessee

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by nyGiants547 View Post
                Die Hard Giant Fan - Die Hard Rant!

                I want to preface this rant with my Eli Manning support since day 1!!! Also I put out my full admission of riding the Coughlin roller coater but fully respected him after Strahons comments breakdown and especially his NFL special which put him on the highest of pedestals - yes a die hard gMan fan (who in a brutal market) needed his personal story shared on the nefl network to seal the coffin for me. While I wish he he would have retired this past year and allow the giants to hire a new coach i accept and embrace him as our starting coach 2013 season, especially since in my opinion last year giants could have made it to the superbowl and won but the only explanation in my opinion is getting lazy. A recent 2 time wining team is filled with UN-hungry team mates (on 1 and two wins) slacking off. Im hoping, since my long term giant experience was a roller coaster of playoffs and season upsets i welcome the recent success.

                My main RANT... while i dont fault cruz for trying to get paid - I think he is gambling big time. Burress was removed form us after a humen error and hoped to return with major success. Had he returned to Eli he would have seen the promis land. He didn't.... Steve Smith wanted to get paid - no hard feelings - Eagles paid and the contract soared like an eagle. After his injury we wont see (which we did whitness for a period) his post Eli potential which was non existant with the great reborn VIck...... Im upset the Giants didnt hold Ballard and hope beckum will return. The Giants receiving core will be the best worst core in the league as will the running back setup...... It can go either way. Im frustrated Hixon may leave and while im confident cruz is a play on more funds which is respected receivers (which eli respecnts and understnads for great catch/throw stories to continue he needs to throw an aggressive ball into agressive coverage to a top level corner - long story short - all GIANTS top catches - past five years - while many will kick eli when down - whose stats are better? Which receivers fell off post eli pay day? I agree eli needs receivers but question the understanding of how receivers need to utilize eli! Shockey sucked post giants whining.... Steve smith sucked post giants whinning...... Cruz.....?
                WHAT ????????

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                  He has accomplished a lot by being the QB for 2 SB winning teams. There is no disputing that.
                  But stop with the SB MVP stuff. His offenses scored a total of 38 points in both games. they were team wins. Its a vote cast in a minute after the game and usually goes to the QB. Although I thought he deserved it in 2011.
                  He's very good. He also has moments of greatness. he also has moments where he looks like a high school QB. He's a high beta guy.
                  ALL games are "team wins" ot "team losses". You can't pick and choose which games are "team wins" and which ones are not. That is a specious argument, usually used specifically when applying the term to games involving Eli Manning, for some reason.

                  Nonetheless, the MVP vote has been cast a minute after each of the 47 SBs to date. There was nothing unique about the vote for Eli each time that was different from all other QBs elected SB MVP.

                  The only QBs, aside from Eli, to have been voted SB MVP more than once (actually twice for each of them except Montana, who was voted three times) have been Starr, Bradshaw, Montana, Brady. Period.

                  Staubach (winner of 2 SBs), Aikman (winner of 3 SBs), Roethlisburger (winner of 2 SBs) don't have 2 SB MVP awards. Certainly Plunkett (winner of 2 SBs) doesn't.

                  For you to attempt to dismiss the significance for Eli to have been placed in that rare company--as you do by pointing out the MVP is "a vote cast in a minute after the game and usually goes to the QB" is absurd. And it doesn't serve you well.

                  No, I won't "stop with the SB MVP stuff". It's pertinent to the discussion, whether you personally like it or not.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Captain Chaos View Post
                    First of all welcome to the board, second understand your frustration; deal with it you're a Giants fan....
                    nailed it....

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                      You do realize Cruz and the Giants are negotiating right? You should also realize it's everyone's right to seek the best deal they can get from their employer in sports and everywhere else. If you are suggesting Cruz has been whining can you offer some proof of that? Life is a gamble, but most of the information we have available to us would indicate Cruz wants to be here long term and changed agents to make that happen.

                      Nothing is ever guaranteed, but why don't we just wait to see what actually happens.
                      Cruz and the Giants are negotiating? What did I miss? That got by me. I was under the impression the Giants have made there best offer and Cruz did not sign it. An offer to make him a "very rich young man". Are you implying since Condon is on board that the Giants best offer is gonna increase just because Condon's the agent? Or is Cruz now going to accept the offer because he has a new agent? The general consensus is the Giants are not going to overpay Cruz and there best offer is already on the table. Clue me in, I'm confused?

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        I can help. The fact that Cruz hasn't signed and is waiting til the April 19th deadline to hear other offers is a "negoitiating tactic". If he gets one, then the Giants have to consider matching it. If he doesn't get one better than the Giants offer, Cruz has to decide then if he wants to sign the tender, or the offer.

                        That's negotiating 101
                        Last edited by FBomb; 03-30-2013, 12:54 PM.
                        I stopped fighting my inner demons. We're on the same side now.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                          I prefer to think that QBs and receivers complement each other as Nicks and Cruz do and Hixon did with Eli. It's as much a two-way trust issue as anything else. That assumes talent on both ends, of course.
                          I agree, plus you have to factor in the fact that MM went to a run first offense from a pass oriented attack. The system is the crucial determinate.
                          Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                          http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                            I agree, plus you have to factor in the fact that MM went to a run first offense from a pass oriented attack. The system is the crucial determinate.
                            I guess that "run first offense" system explains why Crabtree had his first 1000+ reception yards in his 4 year career (along with the most receptions of his career), while Manningham--even though he played the exact same number of games in 2012 (and more receptions) as he did in 2011--had the least productive year since his 2008 rookie year.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                              He has accomplished a lot by being the QB for 2 SB winning teams. There is no disputing that.
                              But stop with the SB MVP stuff. His offenses scored a total of 38 points in both games. they were team wins. Its a vote cast in a minute after the game and usually goes to the QB. Although I thought he deserved it in 2011.
                              He's very good. He also has moments of greatness. he also has moments where he looks like a high school QB. He's a high beta guy.
                              what the hell is a high beta guy.....almost alpha? I'm not sure what the hell you mean by that statement...Eli has many traits of the beta male and many of the alpha distinction "most of the good one's by what little I can gather"...I'll take him over any true alpha male .....just saying... don't understand the need to stereotype here .....Eli is who he is we all know that, and he does a pretty good job of being his own man....anyhow Eli will go down as the greatest Giant QB ever before it all ove...book it MH ......

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by FBomb View Post
                                I can help. The fact that Cruz hasn't signed and is waiting til the April 19th deadline to hear other offers is a "negoitiating tactic". If he gets one, then the Giants have to consider matching it. If he doesn't get one better than the Giants offer, Cruz has to decide then if he wants to sign the tender, or the offer.

                                That's negotiating 101
                                Ok, hard to argue with that thought process. Thanks!

                                Comment

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