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  • #61
    Originally posted by EliManningUp View Post
    And now Drez is left scratching his balls.
    I do tend to scratch my balls when faced with insurmountable stupidity. It distracts me enough to not want to lose faith in humanity.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Marvelousmik View Post
      +1

      Our offense played better when nicks was out and you saw what Randell did when he actually got some playing time on the outside. He had what, 3 touchdowns in one game? we saw what plax did when he played on the outside. we saw what mario manningham did in games where he played on the outside for us.. we saw what steve smith did (more than nicks) when he played a whole season as the #1. as matter of fact we saw what derick hegan did when he was forced to start on the outside.
      LMAO

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Drez View Post
        LMAO

        +1

        Our offense played better when nicks was out and you saw what Randell did when he actually got some playing time on the outside. He had what, 3 touchdowns in one game? we saw what plax did when he played on the outside. we saw what mario manningham did in games where he played on the outside for us.. we saw what steve smith did (more than nicks) when he played a whole season as the #1. as a matter a fact we saw what derick hegan did when he was forced to start on the outside.

        Maybe its just me, but there is a pattern here. And that pattern tells me we have a damn good QB and a offensive system that doesn't get enough credit. if you think nicks is good, then imagine if we had someone like brandon marshall. Or Aj green. I Dont see anything that nicks does that a lot of other guys cant do. Hes not fast, hes not tall, hes not very elusive or quick. hes very average and catches the ball good in traffic. I can name you 20+ other receivers that catches the ball good in traffic

        Lol i think it was just a couple months ago someone on here said nicks is faster than cruz and would probably run the 40 in the high 4.3 range. Lol this whole nicks thing is a joke
        Don't take it personal, we're just debating.

        ~Big Mike~

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        • #64
          I did a lot of editing but anyways im heading out for a jog, ill be back in an hour or so.
          Don't take it personal, we're just debating.

          ~Big Mike~

          Comment


          • #65
            nicks is average? coulda fooled me and every single nfl fan with an iq higher than an eggplants....while its true he isn't 6'5 runnin a sub 4.4 40, he doesnt have to be to play his style game.

            he doesnt get the credit he deserves for his route running, and his game speed rivals any other wr I can think of. When healthy, I cant recall 1 time hes ever been caught from behind...he also makes insane catches look easy with those xxxxxl mits of his...he plucks the ball at its highest point, goes across the middle, gets deep, turns short plays into big ones...sure having eli throw helps a ton, but average? pfff lmao. guy had the 2nd greatest 4 game span in postseason history...average would be the last thing id use to describe anything other than maybe his physical build for a nfl wr

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            • #66
              One thing that hasnt been mentioned here is Nicks' attitude. If you want B Marsh or Dez, go ahead and deal with that headache.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                nicks is average? coulda fooled me and every single nfl fan with an iq higher than an eggplants....while its true he isn't 6'5 runnin a sub 4.4 40, he doesnt have to be to play his style game.

                he doesnt get the credit he deserves for his route running, and his game speed rivals any other wr I can think of. When healthy, I cant recall 1 time hes ever been caught from behind...he also makes insane catches look easy with those xxxxxl mits of his...he plucks the ball at its highest point, goes across the middle, gets deep, turns short plays into big ones...sure having eli throw helps a ton, but average? pfff lmao. guy had the 2nd greatest 4 game span in postseason history...average would be the last thing id use to describe anything other than maybe his physical build for a nfl wr
                Here is the problem. there are a lot of good receivers out there who are better than nicks but dont have the luxury of a top 5 qb throwing them the football. Demaryius thomas was a perfect example of this. Hes much more explosive, quicker and faster than nicks and he has very good hands. Now that peyton is throwing him the football, he straight up blew nicks's averages out of the water with 1400+ yards 94 catches and 10 touchdowns.

                When plax first came to the giants, during his first season as the go to guy he had 1214 yards, 76 catches and 7 touchdowns. And this is during eli's first full season as a starter. This is when eli was young and inexperienced. This is before eli started making the players around him better. I dont have to say much more about plax because we all know how much he meant to our offense and what he did for us on the field.

                When steve smith played the 1 role he had 1220 yards, 107 catches and 7 touchdowns and made it to the probowl. This was arguably better than the regular season performance that nicks had last year when you look at the averages).

                When randell (as a rookie) finally got to play the 1 role during the last game of the season last year, he didnt get many looks but when eli did throw him the ball you seen what he did to the eagles.

                mario manningham has always been the number 3 guy. But in 2010 he had the luxury of playing the 1 role in a number of games for us because of injuries. that year he had 944 yards 60 catches and 9 touchdowns. And he did that as the number 3 guy. when he did start at the 1, he had games where he had 10+ catches for 100+ yards. He averaged about 16 yards a catch and had 944 yards. If he racked up almost 1000 yards in a seaosn as the number 3 guy, imagine if he was the go to guy. In our offensive system we rarely pass the ball to the third receiver..

                Ask yourself this question. What does nicks have that steve smith didnt have? route running? catching? speed?
                History shows that when you get a chance to play the 1 role in our system, you produce and play at a high level.

                If a Qb throws the football to his receiver and the receiver jumps up and catches the ball at the highest point while the defender has his back turned to the football, i look at that as a regular catch. a catch that you're suppose to make. Why? Because i see receivers making those catches all of the time. But i noticed when nicks makes plays like that its HUGE deal, the graffiti falls out of the sky, and hes a top 5 receiver.

                We will agree to disagree about nicks being average. But one thing you cant disagree on is that it doesnt matter who eli is throwing the ball to as long as the offensive line does their job
                Last edited by Marvelousmik; 04-02-2013, 06:41 AM.
                Don't take it personal, we're just debating.

                ~Big Mike~

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Drez View Post
                  I do tend to scratch my balls when faced with insurmountable stupidity. It distracts me enough to not want to lose faith in humanity.
                  This is coming from someone who said a 2 time superbowl champion who has been to the superbowl 3 times, played 10 seasons, has had a consistent career playing at a high level who many regard as a top 5 qb, cant play in our system because its "too complicated". Not to mention he cant read defenses at a high enough level. there have been other comments you've made thats been a little out there as well. That's why i find this remark to be very ironic

                  And i get the whole "you're argument makes no sense and im better than you attitude", but the whole "stupidity and lost faith in humanity" comment was a little too much dont you think? I know you want to sound smart, however you're going about it in the wrong manner. Instead, next time try backing your argument up with something called facts. Or evidence. It makes the discussion more constructive and it gives me a reason to reply to you in the future.
                  Last edited by Marvelousmik; 04-02-2013, 07:04 AM.
                  Don't take it personal, we're just debating.

                  ~Big Mike~

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    If anybody can step in and produce at our #1 receiver spot, why hasnt anyone taken the job from an undoubtably injury-prone Nicks? Seems to me the Giants think he is our best receiver. And i absolutely love how you are ready to anoint Rueben Randle as "ready" to take over for Nicks. He had 1 game, against an awful Philly secondary, in a game that meant nothing. Need i remind you what Nicks did in the 2011 playoffs? Does that get no recognition?? Rueben Randle finished 14th in receptions among rookie receivers last year. 14th! Nicks spent 14 weeks unhealthy, and Randle couldnt edge him out. He couldnt edge out Ramses Barden, and youre ready to give him a go as our #1 receiver? Please tell me what Randle showed you as a rookie that Nicks didnt in his rookie year, besides being called out on national TV for lack of effort in practices?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Marvelousmik View Post
                      Here is the problem. there are a lot of good receivers out there who are better than nicks but dont have the luxury of a top 5 qb throwing them the football. Demaryius thomas was a perfect example of this. Hes much more explosive, quicker and faster than nicks and he has very good hands. Now that peyton is throwing him the football, he straight up blew nicks's averages out of the water with 1400+ yards 94 catches and 10 touchdowns.

                      When plax first came to the giants, during his first season as the go to guy he had 1214 yards, 76 catches and 7 touchdowns. And this is during eli's first full season as a starter. This is when eli was young and inexperienced. This is before eli started making the players around him better. I dont have to say much more about plax because we all know how much he meant to our offense and what he did for us on the field.

                      When steve smith played the 1 role he had 1220 yards, 107 catches and 7 touchdowns and made it to the probowl. This was arguably better than the regular season performance that nicks had last year when you look at the averages).

                      When randell (as a rookie) finally got to play the 1 role during the last game of the season last year, he didnt get many looks but when eli did throw him the ball you seen what he did to the eagles.

                      mario manningham has always been the number 3 guy. But in 2010 he had the luxury of playing the 1 role in a number of games for us because of injuries. that year he had 944 yards 60 catches and 9 touchdowns. And he did that as the number 3 guy. when he did start at the 1, he had games where he had 10+ catches for 100+ yards. He averaged about 16 yards a catch and had 944 yards. If he racked up almost 1000 yards in a seaosn as the number 3 guy, imagine if he was the go to guy. In our offensive system we rarely pass the ball to the third receiver..

                      Ask yourself this question. What does nicks have that steve smith didnt have? route running? catching? speed?
                      History shows that when you get a chance to play the 1 role in our system, you produce and play at a high level.

                      If a Qb throws the football to his receiver and the receiver jumps up and catches the ball at the highest point while the defender has his back turned to the football, i look at that as a regular catch. a catch that you're suppose to make. Why? Because i see receivers making those catches all of the time. But i noticed when nicks makes plays like that its HUGE deal, the graffiti falls out of the sky, and hes a top 5 receiver.

                      We will agree to disagree about nicks being average. But one thing you cant disagree on is that it doesnt matter who eli is throwing the ball to as long as the offensive line does their job
                      the 1 issue with this is that ss12 107 reception year, he had nicks across him drawing attention. and something like 40 or 50 maybe even more of his receptions that year came from the slot.

                      and d.thomas looks like hes gonna be a great wr, even if he is better, thats still 1 wr outta 1000. i know u used him as an example, and also know u dont rank nicks near top 5 when healthy, so lets just go ahead and u list the wr's better than nicks...clear cut better. id figure u could list maybe 10 wrs before the lst started to look moronic...which makes the "average" term used to describe nicks comical

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                        the 1 issue with this is that ss12 107 reception year, he had nicks across him drawing attention. and something like 40 or 50 maybe even more of his receptions that year came from the slot.

                        and d.thomas looks like hes gonna be a great wr, even if he is better, thats still 1 wr outta 1000. i know u used him as an example, and also know u dont rank nicks near top 5 when healthy, so lets just go ahead and u list the wr's better than nicks...clear cut better. id figure u could list maybe 10 wrs before the lst started to look moronic...which makes the "average" term used to describe nicks comical
                        nicks was a rookie so he wasnt getting that much attention. as a matter a fact i wouldnt be surprised if manningham got more attention that year. and ive listed countless times who i think are better. I think nicks is a top 10 receiver playing under a really good quarterback.
                        Don't take it personal, we're just debating.

                        ~Big Mike~

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Marvelousmik View Post
                          This is coming from someone who said a 2 time superbowl champion who has been to the superbowl 3 times, played 10 seasons, has had a consistent career playing at a high level who many regard as a top 5 qb, cant play in our system because its "too complicated". Not to mention he cant read defenses at a high enough level. there have been other comments you've made thats been a little out there as well. That's why i find this remark to be very ironic

                          And i get the whole "you're argument makes no sense and im better than you attitude", but the whole "stupidity and lost faith in humanity" comment was a little too much dont you think? I know you want to sound smart, however you're going about it in the wrong manner. Instead, next time try backing your argument up with something called facts. Or evidence. It makes the discussion more constructive and it gives me a reason to reply to you in the future.
                          so what your sig really means is, "dont take it personal. my opinion is always right, and ill call that 'debating.'"

                          and, Ben prob couldnt run our system, not as well as eli thats for sure, based off of how hes run offenses not near as complex his entire career. ben has size, and can break tackles. eli cant. coaches can recognize this, i know, shocking. whether he can or cant really isnt even the debate, seeing as hes never before. its more along the lines of extending a play, and finding a wr behind the D.
                          I mean did u bother to realize that Wallace was a shell of himself bc the OC they couldnt wait to fire predicated the offense on shorter-intermediate stuff based on reading the D (more similar to our O than the O's he's led) and what did Ben do? Complain about the offense and get hurt. And what happened with Wallace, he wasnt near as effective...and Pitt missed the playoffs...

                          And its been well documented for some time that Bens strength isnt reading Defenses. In fact, when he does so is when he gets into trouble, which is why defenses want to keep Ben inside the pocket and force him to be a pocket qb snap after snap. the plays he breaks a tackle, escapes outside, are almost always the plays that are the big type plays for Pitt. even in last years offense...

                          Now Im sure Drez didnt word it nearly as sophomoric as you did in the first place, something I've noticed is done for effect...but ultimately, for those who understand logical reasoning/debate, it just represents another logical fallacy...and, you've made some "out there" statements yourself, didnt u claim rodgers never misses throws that eli misses or something i remember u PM'd me that or smething lol

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                            so what your sig really means is, "dont take it personal. my opinion is always right, and ill call that 'debating.'"

                            and, Ben prob couldnt run our system, not as well as eli thats for sure, based off of how hes run offenses not near as complex his entire career. ben has size, and can break tackles. eli cant. coaches can recognize this, i know, shocking. whether he can or cant really isnt even the debate, seeing as hes never before. its more along the lines of extending a play, and finding a wr behind the D.
                            I mean did u bother to realize that Wallace was a shell of himself bc the OC they couldnt wait to fire predicated the offense on shorter-intermediate stuff based on reading the D (more similar to our O than the O's he's led) and what did Ben do? Complain about the offense and get hurt. And what happened with Wallace, he wasnt near as effective...and Pitt missed the playoffs...

                            And its been well documented for some time that Bens strength isnt reading Defenses. In fact, when he does so is when he gets into trouble, which is why defenses want to keep Ben inside the pocket and force him to be a pocket qb snap after snap. the plays he breaks a tackle, escapes outside, are almost always the plays that are the big type plays for Pitt. even in last years offense...

                            Now Im sure Drez didnt word it nearly as sophomoric as you did in the first place, something I've noticed is done for effect...but ultimately, for those who understand logical reasoning/debate, it just represents another logical fallacy...and, you've made some "out there" statements yourself, didnt u claim rodgers never misses throws that eli misses or something i remember u PM'd me that or smething lol
                            No offense, but your posts are unreadable.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by AceOspadZ4 View Post
                              Will have a huuuge season and demand even more money than he would get right now? Haha obviously i wouldnt be disappointed. Love watchin a healthy Nicks play
                              Hell no, that's exactly what we want him to do.
                              “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                                so what your sig really means is, "dont take it personal. my opinion is always right, and ill call that 'debating.'"
                                Im not sure where you're getting at with this, or how you came to this conclusion. So ill ignore it until you further explain your reasoning behind this comment.

                                and, Ben prob couldnt run our system, not as well as eli thats for sure, based off of how hes run offenses not near as complex his entire career. ben has size, and can break tackles. eli cant. coaches can recognize this, i know, shocking. whether he can or cant really isnt even the debate, seeing as hes never before. its more along the lines of extending a play, and finding a wr behind the D.
                                I understand that when we think of big ben we think of breaking tackles and extending the play because thats his trade mark. mahammad ali was known for his quick jab, but he had to throw hooks and upper cuts too. Calvin johnson is known for jumping up and catching the football over multiple people. But at the end of the day he has to block, run short to intermediate routes and be a receiver just like everyone else.

                                Yes big ben is known for extending the play because hes good at it, but at the end of the day he has to be a QB. that means he has to stand in the pocket and deliver throws into tight areas and read defenses just like everyone else.

                                I mean did u bother to realize that Wallace was a shell of himself bc the OC they couldnt wait to fire predicated the offense on shorter-intermediate stuff based on reading the D (more similar to our O than the O's he's led)
                                last time i checked our offense needs to dink and dunk more and use more short passes, which is something you agreed and tried to point out before. the big play Offense he led in the past seems more similar to how we run our offense now. We dont use a lot of short passes at all in our offense.

                                also, what does wallace not playing good have to do with the fact ben played good? he missed 3 games but had 28 tds to only 6 interceptions, and 3,265 passing yards. and how is a dink and dunk offense complicated? isnt that simplifying things more?


                                And its been well documented for some time that Bens strength isnt reading Defenses.
                                His strength is extending the play. But because his best attribute is extending the play, it doesnt mean he cant read defenses at a high level. You have to be able to read defenses in order to last as a qb in the nfl. You've made this point about rg3 many times before. I am going to highlight these words and please feel free to quote me on this. In order to be a successful QB in this league, you have to be able to read defenses.

                                In fact, when he does so is when he gets into trouble, which is why defenses want to keep Ben inside the pocket and force him to be a pocket qb snap after snap. the plays he breaks a tackle, escapes outside, are almost always the plays that are the big type plays for Pitt. even in last years offense...
                                its not just ben. when qbs are able to buy extra time, in general it usually doesnt end well for the defense. It can be any QB.

                                Now Im sure Drez didnt word it nearly as sophomoric as you did in the first place, something I've noticed is done for effect...but ultimately, for those who understand logical reasoning/debate, it just represents another logical fallacy...and, you've made some "out there" statements yourself, didnt u claim rodgers never misses throws that eli misses or something i remember u PM'd me that or smething lol
                                That wasnt done for effect. I made the point about ben the same way i did in this post back then. And he stood by his argument that ben cant read defenses. I'll say it again. As a QB you have to be able to read defenses or else you wont last long in this league.
                                Last edited by Marvelousmik; 04-02-2013, 08:42 AM.
                                Don't take it personal, we're just debating.

                                ~Big Mike~

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