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  • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
    Alright ladies, I think there is two separate issues going on here:

    What he "deserves"and what he's probably going to get are two separate issues.

    As most of you all know, I love my soon to be husband Victor Cruz. Do I think he deserves $10 mill? Sure, look at the numbers he's put up. Yeah, he didn't have a flashy 2012 season, but neither did a lot of guys on our team. Doesn't make sense to pin him for that.

    HOWEVER, that does not mean he is getting that amount from the Giants. As a matter of fact, I would rather keep Nicks, than pay one player that amount of money. As you all know, we are very tight in cap space, and it's just going to get tighter in the future. We have Nicks contract to deal and sort out, and before you know it, JPP and Randle's, as well as David Wilsons.

    The Giants simply do not have that kind of money to give to Cruz in 2014. I have no doubt in my mind that he will play in 2013. However, If he seriously wants to stay with us, he will have to think 5-8 million..or the $7 million 3 year contract we laid out for him.

    In conclusion, I love Victor Cruz, I do not think he's just a "slot" guy, and he helps our offense tremendously...but the Giants do not and will not give out that type of money to him..especially in the condition we are in now in terms of cap space.
    I do think Victor is a slot guy! A very good slot at that but, as we all saw when Nicks went down, Cruz wasn't nearly as effective as he was when Nicks was healthy! No matter what emotion comes into the argument, Nicks is the Giant's primary receiver! With Nicks at #1, Randle at #2 and Cruz in the slot we're in good shape. Add Louis Murphy to the equation and I think we can match up with any defense. That is, if the OL does its job!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Drez View Post
      We won't sign him for $10m+/yr.
      I'm aware. It was just speculation, and thinking out loud.

      To another point, the team has reportedly offered him over $7 mil per year, right? He has not accepted the deal, right? Stands to reason that he wants more than that, and since all we basically have to go on is what the media tells us at this point, the purported number of $10-$11 per year doesn't sound all that far fetched. Yes, he should get the most money that he can. It doesn't mean that the Giants have to be the ones on the hook for it, especially with so many other needs. The guy is not irreplaceable.

      There is no 'hatred' going on here. People are discussing the situation from different angles. Yes, negotiations are happening, and the player number is always blown up at first. The media tends to have much more information than the common message board user, which is why I tend to lean toward that side for news. If the reports are to be believed, $7 mil is not enough for Cruz. Another report has his number at 10-11. If he got what he wanted, we wouldn't be having this conversation, and yet further reports that claim that they are far apart would not have surfaced. I'd be absolutely floored if a team made an offer for a 1st, so since this option is exceedingly unlikely, we have to assume that the media reports are, thusfar, not completely inaccurate.

      No one os freaking out, we're just talking about the possibilities.
      The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd - Bertrand Russell

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      • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
        Let's forget the contract for a moment. Suppose Cruz is the most productive receiver for Eli for the third year in a row? Which receiver is the one to keep if you can only keep one? Granted, we don't know what Randle of the others might do to alter things, but of the two, who would you be more inclined to keep?
        Most likely Nicks. What Nicks does well is harder to replace than what Cruz does well.

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        • Originally posted by Drez View Post
          Most likely Nicks. What Nicks does well is harder to replace than what Cruz does well.
          Unless Reese prefers a full time receiver I still think Cruz will sign a long term deal in the $8M range once he doesn't have an offer sheet before the April 19th deadline. I would also expect him to push for more than three years. And on that note, I am bidding one and all adieu for the night
          “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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          • Originally posted by bigal1giant View Post
            I do think Victor is a slot guy! A very good slot at that but, as we all saw when Nicks went down, Cruz wasn't nearly as effective as he was when Nicks was healthy! No matter what emotion comes into the argument, Nicks is the Giant's primary receiver! With Nicks at #1, Randle at #2 and Cruz in the slot we're in good shape. Add Louis Murphy to the equation and I think we can match up with any defense. That is, if the OL does its job!
            What about the 2011 season when he set franchise records for receiving yards? And you're right, Nicks is the #1 receiver.
            Mood: WOOF!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
              Alright ladies, I think there is two separate issues going on here:

              What he "deserves"and what he's probably going to get are two separate issues.

              As most of you all know, I love my soon to be husband Victor Cruz. Do I think he deserves $10 mill? Sure, look at the numbers he's put up. Yeah, he didn't have a flashy 2012 season, but neither did a lot of guys on our team. Doesn't make sense to pin him for that.

              HOWEVER, that does not mean he is getting that amount from the Giants. As a matter of fact, I would rather keep Nicks, than pay one player that amount of money. As you all know, we are very tight in cap space, and it's just going to get tighter in the future. We have Nicks contract to deal and sort out, and before you know it, JPP and Randle's, as well as David Wilsons.

              The Giants simply do not have that kind of money to give to Cruz in 2014. I have no doubt in my mind that he will play in 2013. However, If he seriously wants to stay with us, he will have to think 5-8 million..or the $7 million 3 year contract we laid out for him.

              In conclusion, I love Victor Cruz, I do not think he's just a "slot" guy, and he helps our offense tremendously...but the Giants do not and will not give out that type of money to him..especially in the condition we are in now in terms of cap space.
              If Nicks stays healthy next year, he will most likely get close to $10m/yr. If he doesn't (and depending on the severity), he could be closer to $8m.

              And Cruz is a slot guy. He's only an okay/good outside receiver. He butters his bread out of the slot.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Drez View Post
                If Nicks stays healthy next year, he will most likely get close to $10m/yr. If he doesn't (and depending on the severity), he could be closer to $8m.

                And Cruz is a slot guy. He's only an okay/good outside receiver. He butters his bread out of the slot.
                I think he can be more than just a slot guy. Just my opinion because well..I love him.

                Nicks deserves more tho
                Mood: WOOF!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
                  What about the 2011 season when he set franchise records for receiving yards? And you're right, Nicks is the #1 receiver.
                  Well, that means that Nicks was healthy the, no? Meaning that Nicks helped draw coverage away from Cruz, or if nothing else teams were not able to double Cruz as frequently. Cruz was also an unknown in '11, there wasn't a lot of tape on his game for defenses to go off of.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Drez View Post
                    Well, that means that Nicks was healthy the, no? Meaning that Nicks helped draw coverage away from Cruz, or if nothing else teams were not able to double Cruz as frequently. Cruz was also an unknown in '11, there wasn't a lot of tape on his game for defenses to go off of.
                    I didn't see his other claim where he said he's not "nearly" as good when Nicks went down. (I have this habit of just skimming posts and missing important information, waah".

                    Anyway yeah, so what? 1000+ yards and 10 touchdowns.
                    Mood: WOOF!

                    Comment


                    • can't blame cruz when scrubs like desean jackson got paid big money.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                        Do you think Cruz is talented?
                        Yes.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
                          I think he can be more than just a slot guy. Just my opinion because well..I love him.

                          Nicks deserves more tho
                          why would you say a reciever who has demonstrated that he cant stay healthy deserves more? even when he does play the majority of the time it is at less than a hundred percent which actaully hurts the team because other teams simply double cruz because they dont have to worry about nicks. this situation is touchier than a wolverine high on pcp.
                          Last edited by ELI_HOF_NYG; 04-04-2013, 09:32 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Die-Hard View Post
                            we have to assume that the media reports are, thusfar, not completely inaccurate.

                            No one os freaking out, we're just talking about the possibilities.
                            Yeah, where there's smoke, there's fire, basically. And there's been a heck of a lot of smoke.

                            Media reports and summations have been largely accurate in regards to this year's free agent negotiations. The purported Mike Wallace numbers were correct, the Percy Harvin trade and contract rumours were correct, Dwayne Bowe remaining with KC, Carson Palmer to Arizona, Wes Welker unlikely to return to NE... All correct.

                            While the media isn't averse to taking certain liberties in order to drive reader interest, their reports generally have some basis in reality.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ELI_HOF_NYG View Post
                              why would you say a reciever who has demonstrated that he cant stay healthy deserves more? even when he does play the majority of the time it is at less than a hundred percent which actaully hurts the team because other teams simply double cruz because they dont have to worry about nicks. this situation is touchier than a wolverine high on pcp.
                              Because Nicks is the better receiver? When he's healthy, it's no brainer. I would rather pay and keep Nicks than Cruz..but Nicks HAS to stay healthy.
                              Mood: WOOF!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by kNicksGiants View Post
                                can't blame cruz when scrubs like desean jackson got paid big money.
                                Even though I don't think Jackson is worth the contract he got, he has something that Cruz doesn't, elite speed; scary speed. He isn't necessarily physically dominant on the outside in the way that a Megatron, Fitz, or even Nicks is, but he can flat outrun your defense. There are not many guys who possess that kind of speed.

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