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  • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
    According to John Mara and Steve Tisch, he was offered a long term contract which is probably in the $7M range. We don't know anything else because no one who is involved in the negotiations has publicly said anything else about it.

    We also know Cruz changed agents and is now represented by Tom Condon, of CAA which is now affiliated with Roc Nation (Jay-Z). This change in football agents was said to be a good thing by John Mara who suggested Cruz's old agent was impossible to work with.

    None of us knows how this will end, but everyone involved, Cruz and several members of the organization, have said they want to work this out. Contract negotiations are, by design, back and forth processes. Offers and counteroffers are the norm.

    An analogy most of us have dealt with is a new car purchase. We see the car we want, take a test drive, and then do we pay the sticker price? No, we don't (hopefully). So we say I'm not paying THAT, but I will pay this and the negotiation process begins. The initial offer of the car manufacturer is known to be cosmetic and inflated yet there it is, on the sticker.

    We know we're not going to pay that sticker price, they know we're not going to pay that. But what we are willing to pay isn't going to work either (for them) so they come down and we come up. It's how the process works and that's exactly how contract negotiations work. EVERYONE wants to win and that's where Jerry Reese and Tom Condon make their money and their reputations.

    I say let them work it out and ***** about the published end result if we don't like it, not the speculation we're being treated to courtesy of the media.

    Don't expect anything to happen before the offer sheet deadline on 4/19/2013
    That was beautiful!!!! Thank God it isn't going to make a difference.
    I stopped fighting my inner demons. We're on the same side now.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by gumby74 View Post
      I was just about to say this. Where there is smoke there is usually fire.
      Yeah but there is only "reported" smoke.
      I think its all a "smoke" screen.

      The reality is that we know NOTHING.
      Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by AllHailEli View Post
        So you are saying that there was no truth about Lance Armstrong steroid use the whole entire time that he was being accused of it while he kept denying it, right? The whole entire time those were just unfounded rumors and all the accusers were liars until he came clean and admitted it. Must everyone have to admit the truth or make an official statement to not have this speculation just be an idle gossip? That's what unnamed sources are for.
        Horrible analogy, There was sworn testimony from other teammates and members of the association about Lance Armstrong. The only thing you have here are rumors based on circumstantial evidence. There is nothing wrong with how Cruz is handling the situation. There's no public sniping, no threats to hold out. Just waiting til the deadline to make sure he's getting the best possible deal he can. There's a reason deadlines exist.
        I stopped fighting my inner demons. We're on the same side now.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by FBomb View Post
          Horrible analogy, There was sworn testimony from other teammates and members of the association about Lance Armstrong. The only thing you have here are rumors based on circumstantial evidence. There is nothing wrong with how Cruz is handling the situation. There's no public sniping, no threats to hold out. Just waiting til the deadline to make sure he's getting the best possible deal he can. There's a reason deadlines exist.
          Seriously? What do you have the unnamed sources for then? Here's the excerpt from the NY Daily News:

          "Several NFL sources said his asking price was closer to $10 million-$11 million per year, which is about the going rate for a No. 1 receiver in the NFL. With the two sides not close, the Giants gave Cruz a “first-round tender” before the free-agent market opened in early March, which would get him a salary of $2.879 million 2013 if he signs it."

          Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...#ixzz2Pd1hv95Y

          There are unnamed sources much like Lebron James "Decision" debacle. Guess who turned out to be those unnamed sources? Lebron's handlers after they took a lot of flak for what a nightmare publicity it was turning out to be. By the way, if the NY Daily News is not credible enough, then NFL.com should not be carrying this story either. He got tendered because it's pretty obvious they're NOT even close, not with $10 million and upwards he's looking for. If their numbers are close, what is the holdup after months and months of negotiations? The sad thing is that $7m is actually a fair deal, but surely not close enough to not get anything done. This smoke is choking me! Not that I think he'll end up with his final number, but the Giants are no way in hell close to his numbers.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by FBomb View Post
            That was beautiful!!!! Thank God it isn't going to make a difference.
            I live to serve
            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

            Comment


            • Originally posted by AllHailEli View Post
              Seriously? What do you have the unnamed sources for then? Here's the excerpt from the NY Daily News:

              "Several NFL sources said his asking price was closer to $10 million-$11 million per year, which is about the going rate for a No. 1 receiver in the NFL. With the two sides not close, the Giants gave Cruz a “first-round tender” before the free-agent market opened in early March, which would get him a salary of $2.879 million 2013 if he signs it."

              Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...#ixzz2Pd1hv95Y

              There are unnamed sources much like Lebron James "Decision" debacle. Guess who turned out to be those unnamed sources? Lebron's handlers after they took a lot of flak for what a nightmare publicity it was turning out to be. By the way, if the NY Daily News is not credible enough, then NFL.com should not be carrying this story either. He got tendered because it's pretty obvious they're NOT even close, not with $10 million and upwards he's looking for. If their numbers are close, what is the holdup after months and months of negotiations? The sad thing is that $7m is actually a fair deal, but surely not close enough to not get anything done. This smoke is choking me! Not that I think he'll end up with his final number, but the Giants are no way in hell close to his numbers.
              This was the rumor reported with the agent before Condon.
              “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

              Comment


              • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                This was the rumor reported with the agent before Condon.
                I don't get it. That is the number he wanted that caused the impasse. What are we trying to say here? He was not looking for $10m and upwards?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by AllHailEli View Post
                  I don't get it. That is the number he wanted that caused the impasse. What are we trying to say here? He was not looking for $10m and upwards?
                  We don't know what his initial demand was, that's what I've been trying to say with no success. You can choose to believe the media hype, no problem. I choose to work with facts of which we have very little to make any sort of educated guesses. There is no impasse and there won't be an impasse until June when Cruz has to sign the tender. Even then he will still have to play for the Giants at 110% of his 2012 salary.

                  People are thinking that simply because Cruz hasn't signed the original offer, that he's not going to sign an offer which is just silly. I am going to say this until someone understand negotiating; it doesn't matter what he asks for. It doesn't matter what the Giants' initial offer is. What matters is can they come to an agreement on a long term deal.

                  I think that answer is yes, but to expect any player so simply sign the first offer put in front of them is foolhardy. That's not how contract negotiations work. In this particular case, Condon would be misrepresenting his client if he let Cruz sign before the offer sheet deadline passes.
                  “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                    We don't know what his initial demand was, that's what I've been trying to say with no success. You can choose to believe the media hype, no problem. I choose to work with facts of which we have very little to make any sort of educated guesses. There is no impasse and there won't be an impasse until June when Cruz has to sign the tender. Even then he will still have to play for the Giants at 110% of his 2012 salary.

                    People are thinking that simply because Cruz hasn't signed the original offer, that he's not going to sign an offer which is just silly. I am going to say this until someone understand negotiating; it doesn't matter what he asks for. It doesn't matter what the Giants' initial offer is. What matters is can they come to an agreement on a long term deal.

                    I think that answer is yes, but to expect any player so simply sign the first offer put in front of them is foolhardy. That's not how contract negotiations work. In this particular case, Condon would be misrepresenting his client if he let Cruz sign before the offer sheet deadline passes.
                    They were in negotiations for MONTHS. I say they reached an impasse when the Giants gave him a tender. Giants basically said "Go and test free agency because we can't give you what you're currently asking for." You think that was an initial offer from the Giants after months and months of negotiations? I can't imagine what Cruz's initial asking price if after months and months of negotiations they're no closer to an agreed number. They can continue to negotiate but at this point they are at an impasse with the number. And yes, I tend to believe he wants $10m and upwards. Nothing wrong with looking to get paid, but the Giants can't afford it at his number. And yes, I would like to let him go if he finds someone willing to give us a first round and Cruz $10m a year.

                    What are all these suggestions not to believe speculations anyway? It is someone's prerogative to believe it or not. As I said, not everything is idle gossip. These people have sources, and usually credible sources, no matter if they are unnamed or not.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by AllHailEli View Post
                      They were in negotiations for MONTHS. I say they reached an impasse when the Giants gave him a tender. Giants basically said "Go and test free agency because we can't give you what you're currently asking for." You think that was an initial offer from the Giants after months and months of negotiations? I can't imagine what Cruz's initial asking price if after months and months of negotiations they're no closer to an agreed number. They can continue to negotiate but at this point they are at an impasse with the number. And yes, I tend to believe he wants $10m and upwards. Nothing wrong with looking to get paid, but the Giants can't afford it at his number. And yes, I would like to let him go if he finds someone willing to give us a first round and Cruz $10m a year.

                      What are all these suggestions not to believe speculations anyway? It is someone's prerogative to believe it or not. As I said, not everything is idle gossip. These people have sources, and usually credible sources, no matter if they are unnamed or not.
                      If it's on the internet, it has to be true, I forgot.
                      “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by AllHailEli View Post
                        Seriously? What do you have the unnamed sources for then? Here's the excerpt from the NY Daily News:

                        "Several NFL sources said his asking price was closer to $10 million-$11 million per year, which is about the going rate for a No. 1 receiver in the NFL. With the two sides not close, the Giants gave Cruz a “first-round tender” before the free-agent market opened in early March, which would get him a salary of $2.879 million 2013 if he signs it."

                        Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...#ixzz2Pd1hv95Y

                        There are unnamed sources much like Lebron James "Decision" debacle. Guess who turned out to be those unnamed sources? Lebron's handlers after they took a lot of flak for what a nightmare publicity it was turning out to be. By the way, if the NY Daily News is not credible enough, then NFL.com should not be carrying this story either. He got tendered because it's pretty obvious they're NOT even close, not with $10 million and upwards he's looking for. If their numbers are close, what is the holdup after months and months of negotiations? The sad thing is that $7m is actually a fair deal, but surely not close enough to not get anything done. This smoke is choking me! Not that I think he'll end up with his final number, but the Giants are no way in hell close to his numbers.
                        Explain how "NFL sources" would have any information about confidential negotiations. Answer: They don't. The only information would come from either the Giants camp or the Cruz camp. And I doubt they are talking in any way other than to try to sway public opinion.
                        "NFL sources" would have no information more than any of us would.
                        Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Jahh View Post
                          Not worth $10M+ a year
                          Neither is Bowe lol

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                            Explain how "NFL sources" would have any information about confidential negotiations. Answer: They don't. The only information would come from either the Giants camp or the Cruz camp. And I doubt they are talking in any way other than to try to sway public opinion.
                            "NFL sources" would have no information more than any of us would.
                            You know, the fact that there now seems to be a cone of silence on both sides could mean Condon's presence is having the desired effect; reasonable talks.
                            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Dorothy View Post
                              greed may find Cruz on a team not named Giants. Hope not, but there is only so much money in the budget. Unlike the goverment, the Giants can't borrow from China.
                              Agreed. You have to draw the line somewhere. Cruz at this point doesn't have a leg to stand on. We are giving him the best offer that many other teams aren't willing to match or exceed.
                              Lets go, Giants!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by AllHailEli View Post
                                Seriously? What do you have the unnamed sources for then? Here's the excerpt from the NY Daily News:

                                "Several NFL sources said his asking price was closer to $10 million-$11 million per year, which is about the going rate for a No. 1 receiver in the NFL. With the two sides not close, the Giants gave Cruz a “first-round tender” before the free-agent market opened in early March, which would get him a salary of $2.879 million 2013 if he signs it."

                                Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...#ixzz2Pd1hv95Y

                                There are unnamed sources much like Lebron James "Decision" debacle. Guess who turned out to be those unnamed sources? Lebron's handlers after they took a lot of flak for what a nightmare publicity it was turning out to be. By the way, if the NY Daily News is not credible enough, then NFL.com should not be carrying this story either. He got tendered because it's pretty obvious they're NOT even close, not with $10 million and upwards he's looking for. If their numbers are close, what is the holdup after months and months of negotiations? The sad thing is that $7m is actually a fair deal, but surely not close enough to not get anything done. This smoke is choking me! Not that I think he'll end up with his final number, but the Giants are no way in hell close to his numbers.
                                No, I'm not kidding. I can say an "unnamed source" told me that AllHailEli has a disturbing ice cream fetish. Does that make it fact?

                                RF already explained to you what's going on. It was in English and fairly easy to understand. You, and posters like you, are looking for a reason to *****. Posters like you are the reason the media gets away with passing off rumors as "news".
                                I stopped fighting my inner demons. We're on the same side now.

                                Comment

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