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This is what separates Victor Cruz from Wes Welker

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  • Originally posted by Drez View Post
    Those drops are more forgivable when you set the all time receiving yards record and are essentially the only offensive weapon on the team.
    The issue is drops/targets. Cruz's rate isn't any higher than the best WR in the game, and with Cruz's production it is an overblown issue.

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    • Not to mention age and speed separate them.. Cruz still has more room to grow potential wise... Although he may never replicate his sophomore season #'s. by he can definitely get more consistent with he silly drops making a move before he secures the catch. I also still believe that He has a lot of room to improve an area of blocking...
      NYG Til I Die... Even Tatted in "Big Blue" Blood

      Is it football season yet?

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      • Originally posted by Drez View Post
        Not that he's uncoachable, per se, but just prone to lapses in focus.
        I'm not saying you're wrong, but every player on this team has flaws to their game them, and we can easily argue whether or not their pay is commensurate with their salary.

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        • Dumbest argument

          Are we really nitpicking about the age and maturity and drops... You want to point to a negative in Cruz's game, fine, cite a few more drops than average. How many positives does he bring to the table, talents that are not found in too many receivers? On his current climb he will easily be the best slot receiver in the NFL for the next several years. While maybe we can do as well with a less skilled slot WR, it doesnt mean Cruz himself is easily replaceable.
          Not injury prone, big game performances, very likeable, local product... I would be very upset if he didnt stay here long term.

          Problem is I would be equally upset about Nicks, and I'm not sure they can get both locked up long term.
          Last edited by GiantsInSB38; 04-10-2013, 10:22 AM.

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          • Originally posted by moosedrool View Post
            The issue is drops/targets. Cruz's rate isn't any higher than the best WR in the game, and with Cruz's production it is an overblown issue.
            Agreed.

            And us older guys remember Jerry Rice dropping a pass that was right in his hands and would have led to an early 7 pt. lead in the playoffs.

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            • It doesn't matter what the statistics say about these other receivers. Cruz needs to focus more on catching the football. For 2 season's in a row he's had the habit of taking his eyes off of the ball too soon, and it's resulted in a lot of easy catches that were dropped. . It's an area that Cruz needs to be more consistent in.
              Last edited by Marvelousmik; 04-10-2013, 11:07 AM.
              Don't take it personal, we're just debating.

              ~Big Mike~

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              • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                Agreed.

                And us older guys remember Jerry Rice dropping a pass that was right in his hands and would have led to an early 7 pt. lead in the playoffs.
                Every receiver drops passes. There's nothing wrong with wanting Victor to not be at the forefront in that area.
                “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                • Originally posted by Marvelousmik View Post
                  It doesn't matter what the statistics say about these other receivers. Cruz needs to focus more on catching the football. For 2 season's in a row he's had the habit of taking his eyes off of the ball too soon, and it's resulted in a lot of easy catches that were dropped. . It's an area that Cruz needs to be more consistent in.
                  +1 There's no excuse to be leading the league in drops for 2 years in a row.
                  Mood: WOOF!

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                  • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                    Every receiver drops passes. There's nothing wrong with wanting Victor to not be at the forefront in that area.
                    No not at all, just making that point based off the multitude of critiques I've read by Drez on Cruz.

                    When a player has more upside I tend to cut them slack, but that's just me.

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                    • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                      No not at all, just making that point based off the multitude of critiques I've read by Drez on Cruz.

                      When a player has more upside I tend to cut them slack, but that's just me.
                      I think it's best to look at a player's entire body of work. He's still been Eli's most productive receiver for two years running.
                      “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                      • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                        Agreed.

                        And us older guys remember Jerry Rice dropping a pass that was right in his hands and would have led to an early 7 pt. lead in the playoffs.

                        Yea, that was an "oh no", quicky followed by a "oh yes".

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                        • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
                          +1 There's no excuse to be leading the league in drops for 2 years in a row.
                          Cruz has not led the league in drops in either of the last two seasons.

                          Last year Calvin Johnson, Wes Welker, and Brandon Marshall all had more drops than Cruz.

                          In 2011 Wes Welker, Roddy White, and Brandon Marshall all had more drops than Cruz.

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                          • Originally posted by moosedrool View Post
                            Cruz has not led the league in drops in either of the last two seasons.

                            Last year Calvin Johnson, Wes Welker, and Brandon Marshall all had more drops than Cruz.

                            In 2011 Wes Welker, Roddy White, and Brandon Marshall all had more drops than Cruz.
                            I understand your point and agree with you, but he does need to work on improving. He knows he's doing it, it's a matter of keeping his head in the game all the time. I know he's trying to get more yards and he does.
                            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                            • Cruz is better then Welker at this point in their careers so you cannot expect Cruz to take "WELKER MONEY" Welker is 31 years old and gets injured a lot and he is also much smaller

                              The last 2 years Cruz been better then Welker...we can only judge Cruz on the last 2 season because so far that is his career, sure Welker had the better career but Cruz is basically just getting started in his career while Welker is on the way out

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                              • Originally posted by GiantsInSB38 View Post
                                Are we really nitpicking about the age and maturity and drops... You want to point to a negative in Cruz's game, fine, cite a few more drops than average. How many positives does he bring to the table, talents that are not found in too many receivers? On his current climb he will easily be the best slot receiver in the NFL for the next several years. While maybe we can do as well with a less skilled slot WR, it doesnt mean Cruz himself is easily replaceable.
                                Not injury prone, big game performances, very likeable, local product... I would be very upset if he didnt stay here long term.

                                Problem is I would be equally upset about Nicks, and I'm not sure they can get both locked up long term.
                                When have I ever said that Cruz isn't an excellent receiver, isn't either the best or second best slot receiver in the game, or that I think he'd be easily replaceable? However, people tend to look at my critiques and believe that I think he sucks, which is far from the truth.

                                Cruz drops a lot of passes. I believe the root cause of that lies in a personalty trait of his, one where he tends to lose focus. This can be backed up by not only his on the field play (having 10+ drops in consecutive seasons), as well as in some of his off the field issues (getting kicked out of school for bad grades). That doesn't mean I think he's a horrible player; it just means I think he'll have difficulty overcoming that particular flaw in his game.

                                And if someone brings up that Calvin Johnson had x number of drops his second year as a starter, then yes, age and maturity as a player are germane to the discussion.

                                About Cruz not being injury prone, he did spend a good part of his rookie season on IR. Call it a stash move or not, an independent doctor said that Cruz would have needed to miss at least 6 games with that hammy... So, it's not like he hasn't had any issues with injuries in his career thus far.

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