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  • Stopping the run

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...mqb/index.html

    This is an interesting article by Peter King, written at the time Harry Carson was enshrined into the Hall of Fame.

    I'm posting it to show how important the linebacker position is to stopping the run.


    "....

    Carson did the one thing no defensive player ever gets enough credit for, even though it's the first thing every defensive coach talks about with his team every week: He defended the run. You've heard it a hundred times: If we don't stop the run, we can't win. And when the Giants contended consistently, the hallmark of that team was not the running game or Lawrence Taylor terrorizing quarterbacks. It was having opponents in second-and-9. And that was Carson's job. From 1981 to 1987, the peak of his career, when he was making the Pro Bowl every year as a run-stuffing inside linebacker, the Giants averaged 3.59 yards per opponents' rushing attempt.
    Consider these three stats about that 3.59 over the seven-year period that Carson was at his peak:

    1. The great Chicago Bears defense of 1985, one of the best of all time, with defensive tackles Steve McMichael and Dan Hampton and middle linebacker Mike Singletary, gave up an average of 3.64 yards per rush. The Giants beat that ... over a seven-year period.
    2. Only three teams in 2005 were better than 3.59 yards per opponents' rush, for a single season.
    3. Mike Shanahan said the Patriots had one of the best run defenses he'd ever seen before he faced them in the playoffs. New England allowed 3.62 per opponents' rush.

    And consider that none of Carson's run-stopping 'mates over a seven-year period -- good but not star players like Erik Howard, Jim Burt, Gary Reasons, Kenny Hill, Byron Hunt, Greg Lasker, Herb Welch, Terry Kinard -- will ever be discussed for the Hall of Fame. And you think: if Carson was the on- and off-field leader of this group, if Bill Belichick considered Carson the best all-around linebacker he ever coached, and given the way that Carson stopped the run, shouldn't the guy make the Hall of Fame?

    ...."

    Harry Carson was a 4th round draft pick.
    Last edited by joemorrisforprez; 05-04-2013, 04:53 PM.
    "I like linebackers. I collect 'em. You can't have too many good ones." - Bill Parcells

    "Name the starting linebackers from 2007." - Jerry Reese

  • #2
    Originally posted by joemorrisforprez View Post
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...mqb/index.html

    This is an interesting article concerning Harry Carson when he was enshrined into the Hall of Fame.

    I'm posting it to show how important the linebacker position is to stopping the run.




    Harry Carson was a 4th round draft pick.
    And your point is?

    We didn't draft a LB. Time to get over it and move on, buckaroo.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Drez View Post
      And your point is?

      We didn't draft a LB. Time to get over it and move on, buckaroo.
      My point is that if we are looking to stop the run, linebackers are important.

      Just trying to drop some knowledge on you, bro.
      "I like linebackers. I collect 'em. You can't have too many good ones." - Bill Parcells

      "Name the starting linebackers from 2007." - Jerry Reese

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by joemorrisforprez View Post
        My point is that if we are looking to stop the run, linebackers are important.

        Just trying to drop some knowledge on you, bro.
        Stopping the run starts with the DL. If the DL, particularly the DTs in a 43, aren't doing their jobs you can have 3 Carson's out there and they're going to look like garbage.

        You're not dropping anything. Stopping the run starts with the DL, not the LB.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Drez View Post
          And your point is?

          We didn't draft a LB. Time to get over it and move on, buckaroo.
          since the draft was only a week ago isn't this the time for people to express their feelings of not getting the player they wanted, we will all get over it but its still fun to discuss disappointments...

          Comment


          • #6
            there is a plan to put a 4-3 defense all DT's this will stop the opposing run to a halt.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JesseJames View Post
              since the draft was only a week ago isn't this the time for people to express their feelings of not getting the player they wanted, we will all get over it but its still fun to discuss disappointments...
              You'd think so, right?

              Last time I checked, this was a message board for fans to post up stuff related to the Giants.

              I figured an article about Harry Carson being one of the best run-stuffing linebackers of all time was fair game....but apparently it strikes a nerve with Drez.
              "I like linebackers. I collect 'em. You can't have too many good ones." - Bill Parcells

              "Name the starting linebackers from 2007." - Jerry Reese

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Drez View Post
                Stopping the run starts with the DL. If the DL, particularly the DTs in a 43, aren't doing their jobs you can have 3 Carson's out there and they're going to look like garbage.

                You're not dropping anything. Stopping the run starts with the DL, not the LB.
                Doubtful.

                And the linebacker's primary responsibility is stopping the run. I can understand why some people wouldn't know that, based on recent performance.

                Obviously, they have other duties as well, depending on their position, and whether you're running a 4-3 or 3-4. It's a very demanding position....which is why the very best linebackers normally elevate the defense as a whole, and why crap sandwich linebackers can make the entire unit look confused, soft, or both.
                Last edited by joemorrisforprez; 05-04-2013, 05:16 PM.
                "I like linebackers. I collect 'em. You can't have too many good ones." - Bill Parcells

                "Name the starting linebackers from 2007." - Jerry Reese

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by joemorrisforprez View Post
                  Doubtful.

                  And the linebacker's primary responsibility is stopping the run. I can understand why some people wouldn't know that, based on recent performance.

                  Obviously, they have other duties as well, depending on their position, and whether you're running a 4-3 or 3-4. It's a very demanding position....which is why the very best linebackers normally elevate the defense as a whole, and why crap sandwich linebackers can make the entire unit look confused, soft, or both.
                  The primary job of the OLB is to get to the QB.

                  The ILB on the other hand wears many hats. He's the QB of the defense. He has to read what the offense is doing and relay that to his defense ASAP. If the offense is running he has to help stop the run. If they are passing he either has to help rush the QB or drop back to cover the slot receiver, or the TE depending on the type of pass play it is.

                  An ILB has to be able to do a little of everything, be very smart and think on his feet, tough, hit hard, and do the unglamourous things no one wants to do. In essence the ILB has to be like Harry Carson.
                  Last edited by Cool Papa B.; 05-04-2013, 05:26 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    They've made a few rule changes since those days. Harry Carson would probably be a two down LBer if he could jump forward in time and play in this era.
                    Do not feed the trolls.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Harooni View Post
                      there is a plan to put a 4-3 defense all DT's this will stop the opposing run to a halt.
                      If only that wasn't pretty much hard-countered by play action...

                      I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite team in the NFL.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I am pretty sure Harry Carson played behind D-Line that was extremely stingy against the run as well which helped make him that much better. You find me a team with a crappy D-Line and great Linebackers that's ranked among the best in the NFL against the run. At anytime in the last 30 years!!!!!
                        Its not gonna happen cause any Defense that's very good to great against the run had a very good D-Line to go with those LBers.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DT2012 View Post
                          I am pretty sure Harry Carson played behind D-Line that was extremely stingy against the run as well which helped make him that much better. You find me a team with a crappy D-Line and great Linebackers that's ranked among the best in the NFL against the run. At anytime in the last 30 years!!!!!
                          Its not gonna happen cause any Defense that's very good to great against the run had a very good D-Line to go with those LBers.
                          A good DL will make mediocre LB look good. A bad DL will make good LB look mediocre or worse.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Drez View Post
                            A good DL will make mediocre LB look good. A bad DL will make good LB look mediocre or worse.
                            I think we are on the same page on this one. I don't see how a LBer would have done anything when our D-Line was simply not built to stop the run. At least not in the form they were in last year. They tried to address the run D last year with Sean Rogers but he was put out of commission with a blood clot. So the Giants staff knew what they needed. This year they drafted a Space eating Double team requiring DT who stops the run. And who can play anywhere across the D-Line.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DT2012 View Post
                              I think we are on the same page on this one. I don't see how a LBer would have done anything when our D-Line was simply not built to stop the run. At least not in the form they were in last year. They tried to address the run D last year with Sean Rogers but he was put out of commission with a blood clot. So the Giants staff knew what they needed. This year they drafted a Space eating Double team requiring DT who stops the run. And who can play anywhere across the D-Line.
                              Don't get me wrong, I think we need an overall improvement in play from our LBs, but our main issue last season was the DL not getting it done. If they take care of their job, it makes the LBs job significantly easier.

                              Comment

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