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By seasons end Eli will likely be 6th all time in yards AND TDs

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Harooni View Post
    its quite an accomplishment having his skill set and mechanics. also when watching him his rookie season i would have never thought in a million years he could do this. kudos to him. longevity and not being injured play a role, but credit where it is due.
    Agreed. I'm not sure when but I do remember thinking he wasn't going to amount to what the Giants hoped.

    But he's certainly exceeded my expectations with the Super Bowl wins and amazing moments.



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    • #77
      Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

      All true. But unfortunately, a lot of his picks come from that particular practice.
      Namath threw more picks than TDs and he is a considered an all time great.

      ( I love to bring that up every now and then...... )
      Last edited by GameTime; 07-06-2017, 10:15 PM.
      "Measure Twice......Cut Once"
      You couldn't be more full of **** if you were break dancing in a Port-a-Potty.......Kruunch

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      • #78
        Originally posted by AllHailEli View Post

        That same risk taking also had him throwing that ball to Tyree in the Super Bowl.
        A desperate situation at the end of the game is not a very good example....is it?
        Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

          A desperate situation at the end of the game is not a very good example....is it?
          A lot of his picks are desperate, besides the usual miscommunication, timing, receivers running the wrong routes, unlucky bounce etc. He's trying to make something out of nothing esp when the pocket is collapsing. That kind of risk taking also makes him clutch, allows him to have the game winning drives.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by AllHailEli View Post

            A lot of his picks are desperate, besides the usual miscommunication, timing, receivers running the wrong routes, unlucky bounce etc. He's trying to make something out of nothing esp when the pocket is collapsing. That kind of risk taking also makes him clutch, allows him to have the game winning drives.
            That is SUCH a ridiculous rationalization.

            Eli can make all the throws and has shown a lot of clutch play. But he is also prone to dumb throws into coverage amid a pass rush. And has at a far greater rate than most NFL QB's. It has always been the dilemma of Eli Manning.
            That you don't get that is fine I guess. But lets try to keep it real here.
            Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

              That is SUCH a ridiculous rationalization.

              Eli can make all the throws and has shown a lot of clutch play. But he is also prone to dumb throws into coverage amid a pass rush. And has at a far greater rate than most NFL QB's. It has always been the dilemma of Eli Manning.
              That you don't get that is fine I guess. But lets try to keep it real here.
              I think I heard Sterling Shepard recently talk about Eli having one of the smartest football minds he's ever seen. I can't provide the necessary link because I heard it live at the Giants Town Hall. If someone else went to that please confirm who said it but I digress...

              So anyway it got me thinking. Eli strikes me as a guy who follows instructions - no questions asked. Could it be he follows every play exactly the way it's designed and everyone else does not?

              Food for thought.

              I mean how else could do you explain some of the bone-headed plays we've seen? Eli is the most unusual QB I've ever seen.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                That is SUCH a ridiculous rationalization.

                Eli can make all the throws and has shown a lot of clutch play. But he is also prone to dumb throws into coverage amid a pass rush. And has at a far greater rate than most NFL QB's. It has always been the dilemma of Eli Manning.
                That you don't get that is fine I guess. But lets try to keep it real here.
                If you don't like Eli who almost got intercepted by Samuel, then you should not like Eli who threw that ball up for grabs to Tyree. He is what he is. He can force the issue sometimes and he can be reckless once in a while, but he's got guts and he's a risk taker who's spectacular at a 2-minute offense. It does not really help that he's forced to get rid of the ball in less than 2 seconds. He's not a mobile QB, there's no reason to harp on it. So yeah, I would like Eli to be able to read a novel in the pocket, but the dude can even barely pick up the book with the amount of time he's afforded in the pocket.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by AllHailEli View Post

                  If you don't like Eli who almost got intercepted by Samuel, then you should not like Eli who threw that ball up for grabs to Tyree. He is what he is. He can force the issue sometimes and he can be reckless once in a while, but he's got guts and he's a risk taker who's spectacular at a 2-minute offense. It does not really help that he's forced to get rid of the ball in less than 2 seconds. He's not a mobile QB, there's no reason to harp on it. So yeah, I would like Eli to be able to read a novel in the pocket, but the dude can even barely pick up the book with the amount of time he's afforded in the pocket.
                  If the O line is so bad then why does he get sacked so infrequently? Why was he the third LEAST hit QB in the NFL last year. Only Alex Smith and Derek Carr were hit less frequently.

                  I'll tell you why. Because he doesn't like to sit in the pocket. He likes to throw it fast before he's touched. All NFL players are courageous. Including Eli and I wouldn't suggest otherwise. But he gets rid of the ball often before the play has developed. He's very impatient in the pocket. And last year I saw a lot of panic even when he had a clean pocket. I saw that for the first time last year.

                  Now you can wear your rose colored glasses if you want. I know you will actually. But for the record he's a good QB but far from a great one. Too many flaws in his game. He's been a fine franchise QB for us since 2004. He's been a great Giant. But God he drives me nuts.
                  Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                    If the O line is so bad then why does he get sacked so infrequently? Why was he the third LEAST hit QB in the NFL last year. Only Alex Smith and Derek Carr were hit less frequently.

                    I'll tell you why. Because he doesn't like to sit in the pocket. He likes to throw it fast before he's touched. All NFL players are courageous. Including Eli and I wouldn't suggest otherwise. But he gets rid of the ball often before the play has developed. He's very impatient in the pocket. And last year I saw a lot of panic even when he had a clean pocket. I saw that for the first time last year.

                    Now you can wear your rose colored glasses if you want. I know you will actually. But for the record he's a good QB but far from a great one. Too many flaws in his game. He's been a fine franchise QB for us since 2004. He's been a great Giant. But God he drives me nuts.
                    What you say here is true, but only a partial truth. And as such, a bit disingenuous.

                    The quickness of Eli's release has been the case since Macadoo was hired in 2014. And he was hired in large part to alter Eli's game so he CAN release the ball quickly. Why?

                    As you know, it was because in 2013 Eli finally ran into a wall in terms of his performance and production. His offensive scheme--the offense he ran pretty successfully for his college and first 10 NFL seasons, and with which his team won 2 SBs-- finally failed him, and he consequently failed it. He suffered his most sacks in a season, he threw his most INTs in a season, he threw his fewest TDs since his rookie year, we bled RBs early in the year and were picking up RBs off their couch resulting in a lack of run game to help him. He was thrashed all season, and he would probably not have survived another full season with that offense, let alone another 3 years and counting.

                    Eli's "impatience in the pocket" is partially due to his survival instinct, but is also due in large degree to his offensive scheme of the last 3 years AND due to a continued profound lack of an efficient run game the last 6 years. To omit, overlook or ignore those facts when analyzing Eli's current game is (conveniently?) omitting a crucial context of the offense he is asked to excel at.

                    Yes, Eli is a flawed QB statistically speaking. But as you know, and have acknowledged in the past, there is much more to being a successful pro QB than mere stats--leadership on and off the field, work ethic, poise on the field in high stress moments of a game's final moments, enabling his team mates to believe they can produce in those high stress moments, proven ability to exhibit this poise and skill in the biggest games of their careers--his positive intangibles have ultimately far outweighed any of his statistical flaws.

                    Whether or not Eli is, or will be after retirement, considered a "great NFL QB" will always be a subjective judgement--and will always depend upon whoever is judging and upon their respective values applied to make that judgement. As you always say, passing stats are not very reliable criterion these days--but they never have been a sole criterion, in my view.

                    The intangibles I referred to and that I believe can ultimately qualify Eli as a "great" QB, are shared by him to varying degrees with QBs of the past who've had less stellar stat success than modern day stats (Starr, Griese, Staubach, Aikman, Sims after his first 5 years, Montana, several others of the era), as well as with those of today who are superior statistically to him but also have great intangibles (Brady, Rodgers, Brees).

                    Musings of a Big Blue fan.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                      If the O line is so bad then why does he get sacked so infrequently? Why was he the third LEAST hit QB in the NFL last year. Only Alex Smith and Derek Carr were hit less frequently.

                      I'll tell you why. Because he doesn't like to sit in the pocket. He likes to throw it fast before he's touched. All NFL players are courageous. Including Eli and I wouldn't suggest otherwise. But he gets rid of the ball often before the play has developed. He's very impatient in the pocket. And last year I saw a lot of panic even when he had a clean pocket. I saw that for the first time last year.

                      Now you can wear your rose colored glasses if you want. I know you will actually. But for the record he's a good QB but far from a great one. Too many flaws in his game. He's been a fine franchise QB for us since 2004. He's been a great Giant. But God he drives me nuts.
                      Seriously do you even watch football? Lol

                      I seriously​​​​​​ shouldn't have to even make such elementary points but I'll sum them up as best I can

                      -Modern day football, quick release pass game
                      -you clearly don't know what goes into killing a play as you're leaving out 2 thirds of equation, until you can tell me what they are you should stop speaking on the subject as you've been proven uninformed
                      Last edited by Eliordie; 07-07-2017, 05:17 PM.
                      If you've never played your opinion is invalid

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        [QUOTE=gmen46;n2930815]

                        What you say here is true, but only a partial truth. And as such, a bit disingenuous.

                        The quickness of Eli's release has been the case since Macadoo was hired in 2014. And he was hired in large part to alter Eli's game so he CAN release the ball quickly. Why?

                        As you know, it was because in 2013 Eli finally ran into a wall in terms of his performance and production. His offensive scheme--the offense he ran pretty successfully for his college and first 10 NFL seasons, and with which his team won 2 SBs-- finally failed him, and he consequently failed it. He suffered his most sacks in a season, he threw his most INTs in a season, he threw his fewest TDs since his rookie year, we bled RBs early in the year and were picking up RBs off their couch resulting in a lack of run game to help him. He was thrashed all season, and he would probably not have survived another full season with that offense, let alone another 3 years and counting.

                        Eli's "impatience in the pocket" is partially due to his survival instinct, but is also due in large degree to his offensive scheme of the last 3 years AND due to a continued profound lack of an efficient run game the last 6 years. To omit, overlook or ignore those facts when analyzing Eli's current game is (conveniently?) omitting a crucial context of the offense he is asked to excel at.

                        Yes, Eli is a flawed QB statistically speaking. But as you know, and have acknowledged in the past, there is much more to being a successful pro QB than mere stats--leadership on and off the field, work ethic, poise on the field in high stress moments of a game's final moments, enabling his team mates to believe they can produce in those high stress moments, proven ability to exhibit this poise and skill in the biggest games of their careers--his positive intangibles have ultimately far outweighed any of his statistical flaws.

                        Whether or not Eli is, or will be after retirement, considered a "great NFL QB" will always be a subjective judgement--and will always depend upon whoever is judging and upon their respective values applied to make that judgement. As you always say, passing stats are not very reliable criterion these days--but they never have been a sole criterion, in my view.

                        The intangibles I referred to and that I believe can ultimately qualify Eli as a "great" QB, are shared by him to varying degrees with QBs of the past who've had less stellar stat success than modern day stats (Starr, Griese, Staubach, Aikman, Sims after his first 5 years, Montana, several others of the era), as well as with those of today who are superior statistically to him but also have great intangibles (Brady, Rodgers, Brees).

                        Musings of a Big Blue fan.[/QUOTE

                        " Flawed "? That's hysterical
                        hes suffered some of the worst lines, TEs and RBs since 2011 and yet produces

                        put him in NE and I bet he'd have pretty good success but you go with the team you have

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by sonosam View Post
                          " Flawed "? That's hysterical
                          hes suffered some of the worst lines, TEs and RBs since 2011 and yet produces

                          put him in NE and I bet he'd have pretty good success but you go with the team you have
                          Eli is not flawed?

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            If Elisha Manning can put up a good season this year and with his career passing yards, with his 2 SB rings and 2 SB MVP's he should be able to get in the HOF. Not as a first year voter but maybe second year

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                            • #89
                              I have more respect for a QB who takes chances trying to win games at the risk of throwing INT than a QB throwing the ball away on 4th down with the game on the line like Rivers, or stat conscious QB like Rodgers who love to take 20 yard sacks instead of throwing the ball away.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by TCHOF View Post

                                Eli is not flawed?
                                Well he's not fast (which I prefer)

                                Only real thing I can point to as a weakness of Eli's (and it's really really specific) is swing passes, for some reason he always had a tough time with them.. any other measure of QBing skill though, Eli is pretty much A-grades across the board

                                Arm​​​​​​ strength- B+ not quite the velocity he used to have, happens when youre 34-35
                                Mechanics- A
                                Accuracy- A
                                Pocket prensence- A
                                Knowledge, recognition, and awareness- A+

                                His individual talent has been hidden in a muk for a long time, I've never seen a HOF QB with so many years possessing COMBINATIONS of bottom 3 olines, bottom 3 running games, bottom 3 receiving targets that don't get open and constantly are at the top of the league in drops (including the single worst TEs, consistently) bottom 3 defenses, STs that only turn the ball over and give **** field position, play calling that is literally a punchline around the league, all of these have been pretty consistent factors for the last 10 years, it's pretty embarrassing, so many years where if you traded Eli with the pats or packers for Brady or Rodgers.. their stats would trade too
                                If you've never played your opinion is invalid

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