Originally posted by brad
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Is Giants WR Odell Beckham in Jerry Rice's class? Joe Montana says ...
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Once again when comparing players from different eras you CAN'T compare them directly to each other, especially in terms of athleticism and things like that.
ODB has had all the benefits of modern day diets, health technology, coaching AND being able to watch and learn from Jerry Rice's play. Later generations will always been bigger stronger faster than previous ones.
Even comparing in comparing their numbers, one thing young fans don't realize is that Jerry numbers are so high while playing a good chunk of his career with a 14 game season. Getting 1,400 yards back then, with the rules AND in 14 games was way less common than the numbers that ODB puts up today.
Most of all, you have to compare the two by how much better they were than their contemporaries. The other WRs that were in the league at the time.
There are plenty of fans out there that would argue that guys like Antonio Brown and Julio Jones are right there with ODB.
In Jerry's time, the closest were guys like Tim Brown and Chris Carter and they weren't even considered close to Jerry.
Could ODB take Jerry's title as the GOAT one day? Sure, he's certainly got the talent. But people need to understand that he needs to be this dominant for another 10 years to even get close to Rice's accomplishments and that's no easy task in football.
All Hail The New York Giants!!
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Originally posted by TE88 View PostBased on the stats alone I would say there is almost zero chance anyone catches Rice.
Rice averaged 1400 yards and 14 TDs a season from 86 to 96...averaged!!!
played 20 years. I doubt very much we will see that again. More talented guys may come along but I don't think there is much chance we ever see the consistency and longetivity again
British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli was credited with first saying: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
No one remembers who came in second.
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Originally posted by YATittle1962 View Post
I'm not sure some understand how great Jerry Rice was
his game was the closest thing to perfect that has ever existed in this league
his preparation tactics are legendary and are attempted to be mimicked by hundreds of players to this day
The guy did not run he glided and was one of the most deceiving, crafty, slippery players ever
Odell cannot be compared to Jerry Rice ... not yet anyway ... he would have to accomplish some pretty amazing things before that conversation was had
I remember the same things popping up when Randy Moss burst on the scene
No one remembers who came in second.
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Originally posted by Eliordie View Post
Catching is a pretty big part of being a WR... if you can't do that then nothing else matters, you suck.. .
and I think you completely misunderstand Jerrys "Stickum" situation
it is not the globs of glue like you saw all over Fed Beletnikoffs socks and arm bands ... that stuff would have never flew in the era Jerry played in
the gloves guys used when Jerry played were basically golf gloves ... or batters gloves .... which basically were useless
the stickum Jerry used was a spray and all it did was give those batters gloves a little tack ... and make them pretty much exactly like the gloves worn today ... Jerry had fantastic hands and absolutely did not need gloves ... just as Odell does not NEED gloves ... they all wear them for the extra assistance
this was the same era where D and O linemen would spray silicone on their jerseys so no one could get a grip on them ...
what I meant by "Jerrys hands were probably the least impressive thing about his abilities" ... was everything else he did was so impeccably perfect and effortless.
probably the best route runner in the history of the game
no one ... and I mean no one ran that shake route like Jerry Rice ... guys like Brown , Odell , AJ Green basically have the skill sets that they have today because of Jerry
Jerry literally created a lot of the breaks and shakes that exist in todays game
remember that route Odell ran against the Bengals for a TD ?.... straight out of the Jerry Rice playbook
Deion didn't have trouble with anyone and Jerry would make Deion look like a child at times
I promise you that you are grossly underestimating Jerry Rice with your nameless scout theory ... grossly underestimating
take a few minutes and watch this and see how seldom there was one guy on Jerry ... and still he would regularly split the coverage and take it to the house ... the man was a phenom and paved the way for the great players today who demand doubles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3LLrUqqS00Last edited by YATittle1962; 07-15-2017, 03:09 PM.
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Eliordie ... I totally respect your opinion and even more so your faith and love in #13 ... I love him as well and sure am glad he wear blue
I also think your knowledge of the game is in the upper echelon of posters on this forum
but it is very early to compare Odell to someone like Rice ... here's to hoping he leaves #80 in the dust
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Originally posted by jomo View PostStats are what the weak use to prove their point, because they can't think beyond their noses.
British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli was credited with first saying: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
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Originally posted by TrueBlue@NYC View PostEven comparing in comparing their numbers, one thing young fans don't realize is that Jerry numbers are so high while playing a good chunk of his career with a 14 game season. Getting 1,400 yards back then, with the rules AND in 14 games was way less common than the numbers that ODB puts up today.
The league went to a 16 game season in 1978. Rice's rookie year was 1985.
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Originally posted by YATittle1962 View Post
who said Jerry couldn't catch ?
and I think you completely misunderstand Jerrys "Stickum" situation
it is not the globs of glue like you saw all over Fed Beletnikoffs socks and arm bands ... that stuff would have never flew in the era Jerry played in
the gloves guys used when Jerry played were basically golf gloves ... or batters gloves .... which basically were useless
the stickum Jerry used was a spray and all it did was give those batters gloves a little tack ... and make them pretty much exactly like the gloves worn today ... Jerry had fantastic hands and absolutely did not need gloves ... just as Odell does not NEED gloves ... they all wear them for the extra assistance
this was the same era where D and O linemen would spray silicone on their jerseys so no one could get a grip on them ...
what I meant by "Jerrys hands were probably the least impressive thing about his abilities" ... was everything else he did was so impeccably perfect and effortless.
probably the best route runner in the history of the game
no one ... and I mean no one ran that shake route like Jerry Rice ... guys like Brown , Odell , AJ Green basically have the skill sets that they have today because of Jerry
Jerry literally created a lot of the breaks and shakes that exist in todays game
remember that route Odell ran against the Bengals for a TD ?.... straight out of the Jerry Rice playbook
Deion didn't have trouble with anyone and Jerry would make Deion look like a child at times
I promise you that you are grossly underestimating Jerry Rice with your nameless scout theory ... grossly underestimating
take a few minutes and watch this and see how seldom there was one guy on Jerry ... and still he would regularly split the coverage and take it to the house ... the man was a phenom and paved the way for the great players today who demand doubles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3LLrUqqS00
Also you don't have to pacify me into being nice lol we disagree on plenty but I still have a tremendous deal of respect for your knowledge and accomplishments that automatically verify a wealth of knowledgeLast edited by Eliordie; 07-15-2017, 09:47 PM.
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Originally posted by TE88 View Post
I agree. But I'm saying even using the weakest metric (stats), Rice is simply out of reach. Statistics that consistent and at that volume indicate something phenomenal
No one remembers who came in second.
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Originally posted by LTMVP View Posttalent isnt even close to everything, hes more talented than rice. but it takes a whole lot more than talent to be great. rice was GREAT. a lot of what made him great was mental. hopefully odell will be great too.
BTW I am a huge OBJ fan.
No one remembers who came in second.
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Originally posted by Pisarczik View Post
Uh, Jerry ain't THAT old.
The league went to a 16 game season in 1978. Rice's rookie year was 1985.
But Rice retired over ten years ago and had started his career over 30 years ago, the game has changed a ton in that time, so has training, medicine and, most significantly, the rules of the game. Rice played during a time DB were still allowed to get physical with a WR, and have to worry about a safety head hunting him down the middle. Comparing ODB to Rice would be like comparing Rice to Frank Gifford.All Hail The New York Giants!!
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Originally posted by jomo View PostYes, and as much as I love and respect Rice, the ultimate measure of greatness will not be in the numbers.
I love Beckham but the case study for this type of thing is Terrell Owens. One of the very best EVER and in fact was mentored by Jerry Rice in the beginning but he soiled his career with stupidity throughout. People don't even realize how good TO was because everybody hates him. Even Randy Moss - arguably the best ever but the knock is that period in his career where he allowed the stupidity to take him off the rails. And in fact it did ruin his production for a period of time
Beckham is not TO but rightly or wrongly he (or anyone else who wants to be considered better than Rice) would have to put up Rice-like numbers AND exhibit the work ethic plus professionalism of Rice to ever really be seen the same way.
The only thing that stopped Rice was age. As YA said, closest thing to perfect the game had seen
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Originally posted by TE88 View Post
Yep which is even more reason why Rice will be untouchable.
I love Beckham but the case study for this type of thing is Terrell Owens. One of the very best EVER and in fact was mentored by Jerry Rice in the beginning but he soiled his career with stupidity throughout. People don't even realize how good TO was because everybody hates him. Even Randy Moss - arguably the best ever but the knock is that period in his career where he allowed the stupidity to take him off the rails. And in fact it did ruin his production for a period of time
Beckham is not TO but rightly or wrongly he (or anyone else who wants to be considered better than Rice) would have to put up Rice-like numbers AND exhibit the work ethic plus professionalism of Rice to ever really be seen the same way.
The only thing that stopped Rice was age. As YA said, closest thing to perfect the game had seen
If you had to pick a career track that OBJ is most likely on right now and the track is TO or Jerry Rice.
I don't think there is any question that it would be TO. Not too shabby but nowhere near the best there ever was.No one remembers who came in second.
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