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Is Giants WR Odell Beckham in Jerry Rice's class? Joe Montana says ...

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  • #61
    Originally posted by brad View Post

    There are a lot of similarities between Odell and Jerry, in particular their ability to get yards after the catch. I don't recall Jerry ever making the insane catches that OBJ does, but it always seemed like the ball was always right where Jerry needed it to be. I think what stood out about Jerry was how professional he was, and how effortless he made it look.

    I agree with you about every age group having their bias. For many of us old-time Giant fans, LT (the original) will always be held up as the greatest to ever play the position. We recognized his flaws as a human being, but loved him for his heart and passion on the field.

    OBJ may one day reach Rice numbers, but he has to achieve a lot more before anyone should suggest he is in his class. Just my two cents.
    +1

    Comment


    • #62
      Once again when comparing players from different eras you CAN'T compare them directly to each other, especially in terms of athleticism and things like that.

      ODB has had all the benefits of modern day diets, health technology, coaching AND being able to watch and learn from Jerry Rice's play. Later generations will always been bigger stronger faster than previous ones.

      Even comparing in comparing their numbers, one thing young fans don't realize is that Jerry numbers are so high while playing a good chunk of his career with a 14 game season. Getting 1,400 yards back then, with the rules AND in 14 games was way less common than the numbers that ODB puts up today.

      Most of all, you have to compare the two by how much better they were than their contemporaries. The other WRs that were in the league at the time.

      There are plenty of fans out there that would argue that guys like Antonio Brown and Julio Jones are right there with ODB.

      In Jerry's time, the closest were guys like Tim Brown and Chris Carter and they weren't even considered close to Jerry.

      Could ODB take Jerry's title as the GOAT one day? Sure, he's certainly got the talent. But people need to understand that he needs to be this dominant for another 10 years to even get close to Rice's accomplishments and that's no easy task in football.



      Last edited by TrueBlue@NYC; 07-15-2017, 02:01 PM. Reason: Corrected spelling
      All Hail The New York Giants!!

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by TE88 View Post
        Based on the stats alone I would say there is almost zero chance anyone catches Rice.

        Rice averaged 1400 yards and 14 TDs a season from 86 to 96...averaged!!!

        played 20 years. I doubt very much we will see that again. More talented guys may come along but I don't think there is much chance we ever see the consistency and longetivity again
        Stats are what the weak use to prove their point, because they can't think beyond their noses.

        British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli was credited with first saying: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
        No one remembers who came in second.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by YATittle1962 View Post

          I'm not sure some understand how great Jerry Rice was

          his game was the closest thing to perfect that has ever existed in this league

          his preparation tactics are legendary and are attempted to be mimicked by hundreds of players to this day

          The guy did not run he glided and was one of the most deceiving, crafty, slippery players ever

          Odell cannot be compared to Jerry Rice ... not yet anyway ... he would have to accomplish some pretty amazing things before that conversation was had

          I remember the same things popping up when Randy Moss burst on the scene

          Rice did all of that without eye popping "measurables". He certainly possessed the "will to prepare to win" that Bobby Knight talks about. He had more of it than any athlete I have ever seen.
          No one remembers who came in second.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Eliordie View Post

            Catching is a pretty big part of being a WR... if you can't do that then nothing else matters, you suck.. .
            who said Jerry couldn't catch ?

            and I think you completely misunderstand Jerrys "Stickum" situation

            it is not the globs of glue like you saw all over Fed Beletnikoffs socks and arm bands ... that stuff would have never flew in the era Jerry played in

            the gloves guys used when Jerry played were basically golf gloves ... or batters gloves .... which basically were useless

            the stickum Jerry used was a spray and all it did was give those batters gloves a little tack ... and make them pretty much exactly like the gloves worn today ... Jerry had fantastic hands and absolutely did not need gloves ... just as Odell does not NEED gloves ... they all wear them for the extra assistance

            this was the same era where D and O linemen would spray silicone on their jerseys so no one could get a grip on them ...

            what I meant by "Jerrys hands were probably the least impressive thing about his abilities" ... was everything else he did was so impeccably perfect and effortless.

            probably the best route runner in the history of the game

            no one ... and I mean no one ran that shake route like Jerry Rice ... guys like Brown , Odell , AJ Green basically have the skill sets that they have today because of Jerry

            Jerry literally created a lot of the breaks and shakes that exist in todays game

            remember that route Odell ran against the Bengals for a TD ?.... straight out of the Jerry Rice playbook

            Deion didn't have trouble with anyone and Jerry would make Deion look like a child at times

            I promise you that you are grossly underestimating Jerry Rice with your nameless scout theory ... grossly underestimating

            take a few minutes and watch this and see how seldom there was one guy on Jerry ... and still he would regularly split the coverage and take it to the house ... the man was a phenom and paved the way for the great players today who demand doubles

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3LLrUqqS00
            Last edited by YATittle1962; 07-15-2017, 03:09 PM.

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            • #66
              Eliordie ... I totally respect your opinion and even more so your faith and love in #13 ... I love him as well and sure am glad he wear blue

              I also think your knowledge of the game is in the upper echelon of posters on this forum

              but it is very early to compare Odell to someone like Rice ... here's to hoping he leaves #80 in the dust

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by jomo View Post
                Stats are what the weak use to prove their point, because they can't think beyond their noses.

                British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli was credited with first saying: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
                I agree. But I'm saying even using the weakest metric (stats), Rice is simply out of reach. Statistics that consistent and at that volume indicate something phenomenal

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by TrueBlue@NYC View Post
                  Even comparing in comparing their numbers, one thing young fans don't realize is that Jerry numbers are so high while playing a good chunk of his career with a 14 game season. Getting 1,400 yards back then, with the rules AND in 14 games was way less common than the numbers that ODB puts up today.
                  Uh, Jerry ain't THAT old.

                  The league went to a 16 game season in 1978. Rice's rookie year was 1985.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    talent isnt even close to everything, hes more talented than rice. but it takes a whole lot more than talent to be great. rice was GREAT. a lot of what made him great was mental. hopefully odell will be great too.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by YATittle1962 View Post

                      who said Jerry couldn't catch ?

                      and I think you completely misunderstand Jerrys "Stickum" situation

                      it is not the globs of glue like you saw all over Fed Beletnikoffs socks and arm bands ... that stuff would have never flew in the era Jerry played in

                      the gloves guys used when Jerry played were basically golf gloves ... or batters gloves .... which basically were useless

                      the stickum Jerry used was a spray and all it did was give those batters gloves a little tack ... and make them pretty much exactly like the gloves worn today ... Jerry had fantastic hands and absolutely did not need gloves ... just as Odell does not NEED gloves ... they all wear them for the extra assistance

                      this was the same era where D and O linemen would spray silicone on their jerseys so no one could get a grip on them ...

                      what I meant by "Jerrys hands were probably the least impressive thing about his abilities" ... was everything else he did was so impeccably perfect and effortless.

                      probably the best route runner in the history of the game

                      no one ... and I mean no one ran that shake route like Jerry Rice ... guys like Brown , Odell , AJ Green basically have the skill sets that they have today because of Jerry

                      Jerry literally created a lot of the breaks and shakes that exist in todays game

                      remember that route Odell ran against the Bengals for a TD ?.... straight out of the Jerry Rice playbook

                      Deion didn't have trouble with anyone and Jerry would make Deion look like a child at times

                      I promise you that you are grossly underestimating Jerry Rice with your nameless scout theory ... grossly underestimating

                      take a few minutes and watch this and see how seldom there was one guy on Jerry ... and still he would regularly split the coverage and take it to the house ... the man was a phenom and paved the way for the great players today who demand doubles

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3LLrUqqS00
                      All of this is fair to say, and I get that the guy who invented the wheel will always be held in higher regard than the guy who made it better, also I'm not naive enough to believe that Odell today is even within lightyears of Rice as far as GREATNESS, but how great you are and how good you are.. are 2 different stories, Jerry had a long ILLUSTRIOUS career and obviously far more storied, Beckhams career is still a toddler.. but I'm saying if I gotta pick one guy (in their prime) to be on my team in the front yard, and the guy I don't pick is on the other team.. I'm going with the guy who looks like a biological experiment gone perfectly right from the year 2382

                      Als​​​​​​o you don't have to pacify me into being nice lol we disagree on plenty but I still have a tremendous deal of respect for your knowledge and accomplishments that automatically verify a wealth of knowledge
                      Last edited by Eliordie; 07-15-2017, 09:47 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by TE88 View Post

                        I agree. But I'm saying even using the weakest metric (stats), Rice is simply out of reach. Statistics that consistent and at that volume indicate something phenomenal
                        Yes, and as much as I love and respect Rice, the ultimate measure of greatness will not be in the numbers.

                        No one remembers who came in second.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by LTMVP View Post
                          talent isnt even close to everything, hes more talented than rice. but it takes a whole lot more than talent to be great. rice was GREAT. a lot of what made him great was mental. hopefully odell will be great too.
                          I don't know what "talented" means. Please explain that to us. Is it frosting on the tips of the hair? Is it 40 yard dash time? How exactly do you determine after 2 years that he is more "talented" than Rice?

                          BTW I am a huge OBJ fan.
                          No one remembers who came in second.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Pisarczik View Post

                            Uh, Jerry ain't THAT old.

                            The league went to a 16 game season in 1978. Rice's rookie year was 1985.
                            Ooops, I got my players mixed up with Rice and ****erson in that remark.

                            But Rice retired over ten years ago and had started his career over 30 years ago, the game has changed a ton in that time, so has training, medicine and, most significantly, the rules of the game. Rice played during a time DB were still allowed to get physical with a WR, and have to worry about a safety head hunting him down the middle. Comparing ODB to Rice would be like comparing Rice to Frank Gifford.
                            All Hail The New York Giants!!

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by jomo View Post
                              Yes, and as much as I love and respect Rice, the ultimate measure of greatness will not be in the numbers.
                              Yep which is even more reason why Rice will be untouchable.

                              I love Beckham but the case study for this type of thing is Terrell Owens. One of the very best EVER and in fact was mentored by Jerry Rice in the beginning but he soiled his career with stupidity throughout. People don't even realize how good TO was because everybody hates him. Even Randy Moss - arguably the best ever but the knock is that period in his career where he allowed the stupidity to take him off the rails. And in fact it did ruin his production for a period of time

                              Beckham is not TO but rightly or wrongly he (or anyone else who wants to be considered better than Rice) would have to put up Rice-like numbers AND exhibit the work ethic plus professionalism of Rice to ever really be seen the same way.

                              The only thing that stopped Rice was age. As YA said, closest thing to perfect the game had seen

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by TE88 View Post

                                Yep which is even more reason why Rice will be untouchable.

                                I love Beckham but the case study for this type of thing is Terrell Owens. One of the very best EVER and in fact was mentored by Jerry Rice in the beginning but he soiled his career with stupidity throughout. People don't even realize how good TO was because everybody hates him. Even Randy Moss - arguably the best ever but the knock is that period in his career where he allowed the stupidity to take him off the rails. And in fact it did ruin his production for a period of time

                                Beckham is not TO but rightly or wrongly he (or anyone else who wants to be considered better than Rice) would have to put up Rice-like numbers AND exhibit the work ethic plus professionalism of Rice to ever really be seen the same way.

                                The only thing that stopped Rice was age. As YA said, closest thing to perfect the game had seen
                                All good stuff TE88.
                                If you had to pick a career track that OBJ is most likely on right now and the track is TO or Jerry Rice.
                                I don't think there is any question that it would be TO. Not too shabby but nowhere near the best there ever was.
                                No one remembers who came in second.

                                Comment

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