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August 5 Practice Notes - interesting comments about the O-Line

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  • #76
    Originally posted by tdawg1413 View Post

    Not sure you get what I am saying. He is saying LTs are an overrated position. I wholeheartedly disagree. Tyron Smith is not the reason Dallas has done zip in the playoffs. Trent Williams is not the reason the Skins are average at best as a team. Take either of those guys and put them on really good teams. Those teams will improve. What he is saying has zero to do with salary cap implications.
    it's an interesting point to discuss though... I tend to agree that he has overstated how little the LT position means... blind side protection is vital to a QBs confidence to stay in the pocket longer and deliver the ball as we all saw with eli last season.... if you're afraid to get creamed on every pass play by 300 pound+ monsters...who wouldn't get rid of the ball quickly? The blind side is vital importance because well it is the blind side. duh. lol

    IMO your best pass protector in open space is your left tackle...

    does flowers fit that bill? if not, makes no sense to have flowers at LT IMO flowers is better suited for guard duty

    so who becomes the LT? anyone better than flowers in open space pass pro

    it's all about the feet(mobility), ability to get positioning, and balance at the LT position in pass pro in my view..combined with ability to anchor so as not get bull rushed when neccesary


    2 cents
    Last edited by bigpoppy; 08-07-2017, 02:46 PM.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by tdawg1413 View Post

      Flowers has been the worst the past 2 years

      No, it's called pocket integrity. Flowers girth, strength, and size forces the DE to rush past the hinge of the pocket. the DE is taking a wider angle around the arc.

      With Beatty, if you don't get the edge, you can always bull-rush him inside and compress the pocket that way.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by CRF11504 View Post


        When people say LT is the 2nd or 3rd most important position after QB, they are overrating the LT position.
        any coach ... executive ... or owner in the entire league will tell you that the position importance hierarchy looks like this

        1) QB
        2) DE (pass rusher)
        3) LT

        so where you may feel it is not #3 , please understand that the people who actually understand the game and what building a team entails do

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by IrishMike357 View Post
          Neglected far longer than that? Really. Well in 13, 14 and 15 we spent a 1st or 2nd round pick on the line. In that time they also went out and signed Newhouse, Schwartz and Jerry. So they have spent high round draft picks and spent decent money in free agency for 3 years prior to 2016 trying to build the OLine and people say he neglected it lmao. Not all of this worked out, obviously, no one is saying that. The fact is he didn't ignore the problem.

          Like I always ask WHO should he have taken instead? Conklin? Really so when we had the 6th best O in the league and the 30th D we should have taken an OL instead of a defensive player? Yeah makes total sense.

          With that said if you, or anyone, wants to say Reese has not been good finding talent we can go done that road. Pugh and Richburg are good picks, Flowers is not looking good (jury still out) and the free agents, like almost all OL free agents didn't work out in recent years. Fact is teams don't let good linemen walk, all teams try to sign the linemen that do hit the market and Reese has hit on 2/3 (at worst) early round OL. Go criticize his late rounds if you want.

          I'm already on the record in this thread as saying that I think he's a very good GM. I don't see any benefit to attempting to support him with an incompetence defense but I've no desire to stop others from doing so.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by tdawg1413 View Post

            The 3 most important positions in this NFL are QB, LT and a pass rushing DE. CB and playmakers follow that.

            And you just proved that LT is overrated. Thanks.

            Giants have one of the worst LTs in the league and are still considered SB contenders. If it was the 2nd most important position, that would not be the case.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by jay051 View Post

              I dont think its as bad as posters here who tear him down and will go as far as say that 2007 team was all Accorsi. I think its far more here that discredits him as oppose to propping him up. Just MHO!!
              He's the Eli Manning of GMs.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by CRF11504 View Post


                No, it's called pocket integrity. Flowers girth, strength, and size forces the DE to rush past the hinge of the pocket. the DE is taking a wider angle around the arc.

                With Beatty, if you don't get the edge, you can always bull-rush him inside and compress the pocket that way.
                There is a reason why good LTs for the most part go in the 1st round of drafts and Cs and OGs go in the middle rounds. Much easier to find those guys than LTs.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by CRF11504 View Post


                  No, it's called pocket integrity. Flowers girth, strength, and size forces the DE to rush past the hinge of the pocket. the DE is taking a wider angle around the arc.

                  With Beatty, if you don't get the edge, you can always bull-rush him inside and compress the pocket that way.
                  In Flowers case, you are 100% wrong. How many times have we seen rushers bull him and put him on skates? I dont care about his size and any measurable he has. He is not good.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by tdawg1413 View Post

                    Not sure you get what I am saying. He is saying LTs are an overrated position. I wholeheartedly disagree. Tyron Smith is not the reason Dallas has done zip in the playoffs. Trent Williams is not the reason the Skins are average at best as a team. Take either of those guys and put them on really good teams. Those teams will improve. What he is saying has zero to do with salary cap implications.
                    Well...I understand your point here. However, part of this debate is about salary and money. Sure, every team in the NFL would love a top LT. Unfortunately, there are only a few great LT in the world. So, as a team you team you have to decide where to spend your money. LT, Pass rushers, shut down corners, and of course QB's are the hardest positions to find. As a GM you can't just spend money everywhere. Right or wrong, the Giants have tied up their money in pass rush, QB, and shut down corners. It's a strategic decision based upon salary cap and availability. It's not stupidity...Of course, it could be a bad decision though...

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by CRF11504 View Post


                      And you just proved that LT is overrated. Thanks.

                      Giants have one of the worst LTs in the league and are still considered SB contenders. If it was the 2nd most important position, that would not be the case.
                      this makes absolutely zero sense

                      and I am 100% convinced that you are a character with far too much time on his hands playing up schtick ...

                      it really is a simple formula ... extremely simple ..

                      who is the most important player on the field ?... QB ... easy right ?...

                      ok

                      who is trying to put the QB to sleep ?... a DE ...

                      where are the majority of the best DEs in the league playing ? ... on a right handed QBs blind side

                      who protects that blind side ?

                      it really is very simple ... and I know you understand that ... your schtick is not working

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Giantterp View Post

                        Well...I understand your point here. However, part of this debate is about salary and money. Sure, every team in the NFL would love a top LT. Unfortunately, there are only a few great LT in the world. So, as a team you team you have to decide where to spend your money. LT, Pass rushers, shut down corners, and of course QB's are the hardest positions to find. As a GM you can't just spend money everywhere. Right or wrong, the Giants have tied up their money in pass rush, QB, and shut down corners. It's a strategic decision based upon salary cap and availability. It's not stupidity...Of course, it could be a bad decision though...
                        The debate as a whole, yes. This guys debate...no. All he is trying to do is make his guy John Jerry look good. That is his whole shtick.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          If only we had 53 John Jerry's on this team.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by bigpoppy View Post

                            it's an interesting point to discuss though... I tend to agree that he has overstated how little the LT position means... blind side protection is vital to a QBs confidence to stay in the pocket longer and deliver the ball as we all saw with eli last season.... if you're afraid to get creamed on every pass play by 300 pound+ monsters...who wouldn't get rid of the ball quickly? The blind side is vital importance because well it is the blind side. duh. lol

                            IMO your best pass protector in open space is your left tackle...

                            does flowers fit that bill? if not, makes no sense to have flowers at LT IMO flowers is better suited for guard duty

                            so who becomes the LT? anyone better than flowers in open space pass pro

                            it's all about the feet(mobility), ability to get positioning, and balance at the LT position in pass pro in my view..combined with ability to anchor so as not get bull rushed when neccesary


                            2 cents

                            "Flowers is better suited for guard duty"

                            In the WCO, Flowers could never ever ever play Guard. Ever.

                            That's something the Giants won't ever consider for a second.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by YATittle1962 View Post

                              any coach ... executive ... or owner in the entire league will tell you that the position importance hierarchy looks like this

                              1) QB
                              2) DE (pass rusher)
                              3) LT

                              so where you may feel it is not #3 , please understand that the people who actually understand the game and what building a team entails do

                              And that is why the last time a great LT won the Super Bowl was over a decade ago.

                              Overrated.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by tdawg1413 View Post

                                There is a reason why good LTs for the most part go in the 1st round of drafts and Cs and OGs go in the middle rounds. Much easier to find those guys than LTs.
                                It's an overrated position. You do not need a great LT to win a SB. You don't even need an above average LT to win a SB.

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