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Tonight Did Not Alleviate OL Fears

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  • #16
    What is glaring is that the TE position for the NYG is gonna have a huge impact this year. One problem is that the middle of the OL is by no means stout. Their opponents are eating our QBS lunch on plays. It starts with Richburg.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by gumby74 View Post

      Picking in the high teens, do you think it's possible for an OT to come in right away and make an impact? Most OTs either fail or take multiple years to develop. By that time, Eli would be done and we'd be in rebuilding mode anyway.
      No, probably not, but that wasnt the only way to get an OLman. This is years in the making.
      WE ALREADY HAVE A GREAT RUNNING BACK:

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Giantterp View Post

        Wow...

        I think we should all be concerned about the O-Line. I could care less about last night and I have no different opinion on things because it's pre-season. I am concerned because of the bad play last year and the limited upgrades in the off season.

        However, lighten up! Every NFL team has an area of weakness-with the possible exception of the Pats. It's life in the NFL with a salary cap. Overall, on paper the Giants are stacking up pretty good. Before last year, we had the right to be very critical of Reese...Maybe even think he should be fired. After last year, I don't know what fans want. He rebuild the defense and they were 11-5. Again, there was no real good solutions to upgrade the tackle positions in the off season. Reese made a calculated decision to upgrade other aspects of the team. It was a very weak year in FA and in the draft for this position. Lots of people here seem to forget that there are only 10-15 people on the planet that can play LT.
        I'll start off by saying no offense to you personally, we all want the Giants to win. Having said that, I understand it was a weak draft class for the O line and I also understand he "rebuilt" the defense. I'm still not sold on what a "great" job he did by "rebuilding" the defense. He had a ton of money to spend in FA and went and bought/paid the best price for pretty much the best defensive players available. There was NOTHING genius about that, it was common sense. Giants had one of the worst defenses in the league and some of the most money to spend. How do you fix that? Spend a lot of money.

        I'm sure the Reese supporters will say "but we wouldn't have had that much money to spend if he he wasn't such a great GM" and look where that got us up until that point, one of the worst defenses in the league. Now, since his job was on the line, he went all in on one side of the ball and neglected the other half which is the O line. The O line is what makes or breaks or breaks an offense. It turns average running backs into great running backs and makes great running backs look pedestrian. Eli is in his final years and we all know his mobility is and has been bad, if anything he should have spent more money protecting Eli.

        This draft class was bad but he never built this line like he should have. He went all in on defense and now westuck with what we have which is not good. It doesn't matter how good Ingram, Bmarsh or OBJ are if Eli doesn't have the time to pass or if we can't establish any sort of run. I'm po'd, hungover and sick of typing so my rant ends here FOR NOW.

        I just hope there is some miraculous turn around with the o line but based on last night I don't see it happening. Thanks for nothing JR, you scammed your way into a job for another 5 years.


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        • #19
          Originally posted by Die-Hard View Post
          I dont know how or why anyone would expect a different result from the same 5 guys that were there last season. Its very likely not gonna improve either, because you cant polish a turd
          I had my blinders on last year, It is bad. Watt was coming all night untouched. He is a rookie. What is Von Miller going to do. I hate to think about it.
          Last edited by TEM; 08-12-2017, 08:52 AM.
          The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

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          • #20
            T.J Watt, a damn rookie got sacks on starters...this team won't get far with this O-line, Thanks Reese..

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            • #21
              Originally posted by TheAnalyst View Post

              No, probably not, but that wasnt the only way to get an OLman. This is years in the making.
              I am by no means making any excuses for the "Everything is going to turn out just dandy O-line" . When JPP was tagged. It tied up a big chunk of the Giants cap money. The Giants had like 9 million to spend and more then one spot to fill. There was no way they could bring in a top line men.

              Where I had a problem, they had the entire season last year to a deal done. That I blame on Reese. As far as what happen during the signing frenzy, Fluker was all that the Giants were going to get. I also believe who was available was too expensive for their talent or age.
              The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by TEM View Post

                I am by no means making any excuses for the "Everything is going to turn out just dandy O-line" . When JPP was tagged. It tied up a big chunk of the Giants cap money. The Giants had like 9 million to spend and more then one spot to fill. There was no way they could bring in a top line men.

                Where I had a problem, they had the entire season last year to a deal done. That I blame on Reese. As far as what happen during the signing frenzy, Fluker was all that the Giants were going to get. I also believe who was available was too expensive for their talent or age.
                "...too expensive for their talent or age" or unaffordable under the cap. There's a difference. Really hard to win consistently or go all the way without the horses in the trenches.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Trapblock View Post

                  "...too expensive for their talent or age" or unaffordable under the cap. There's a difference. Really hard to win consistently or go all the way without the horses in the trenches.

                  I was using 2 examples one with cap space one without.

                  This where I see the problem; It is of no consequence who is on the field at any given time, the same exact problems manifest. Just brining in a 625 thousand a game lineman is not fixing that. It needs to be fixed from the ground up. It starts with the O-line coach... I believe the entire system of protection sucks. It is not the players. It is the assignments that the system dictates are flawed. Just putting a different player ( no matter how expensive he is) into a ****ty O-line system won't fix that problem.

                  The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

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                  • #24
                    Flowers was surprisingly good last night
                    Pugh was decent
                    Ritchburgh was sub part to say the least
                    Jerry played quite well
                    Hart has no business as a starter
                    Come check the G-Fambulance and The Scarf Soldiers every home game in Lot L6, and like us on facebook and instagam 'NYG Scarf Soldiers'

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                    • #25
                      most teams around the league have O line problems, not all but most, the question is can our coaching staff identify and fix these problems, so far it doesn't look promising. I don't understand how Reese could expect the line to improve over last year when he didn't do anything to make that happen....

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by TrueBlue@NYC View Post
                        I was at the game tonight and gotta say it did not help any of my OL concerns at all. Started nice with that first 7 yard run which looked great. But after that they got blown off the ball the whole night. The only time they moved the ball in the first couple of quarters were on misdirection plays and bootlegs, which is not good, these early preseason games are about seeing if players improved on specific technqiues and their ability to win one on one battles, and the OL guys did not do that.

                        Gave up sacks the first two pass plays, gave up a few more throughout the game, QBs got hurries a bunch as well and no push in the run game until very late.

                        The starting OL was most concerning IMO. Flowers still looks very bad. He gets pushed back way too much for a man his size. Plays to straight up. Richburg was aweful and missed a couple of assignments, which shouldn't happen considering he's supposed to be calling them out on the line.

                        On another note, Geno started out OK but looked worse and worse as the game went on. He missed quite a few open players downfield and his second pick was horrid. Johnson didn't look much better but frankly, he did not have much help with PITs DL on top of him every play.

                        On the positive. Liked how the TEs were used in a bunch of ways. Adams and Ellison made impactful plays both blocking and receiving.

                        The backup DL players showed well against PITs backups. Bromley, Tomlinson and Wynn were all very active and each made a couple of splash plays.

                        The back-up secondary guys played very poorly and were bailed out at least 3-4 times by either a poor throw or a drop.

                        This game was about measuring the OL (I think they were the only starting unit that played all the starters), the kickers (Rosas looked good) and the back-ups (mixed) so I think they did a good job answering some questions there, unfortunately not all of the answers were positive.

                        Hope JR is considering some additional OL options because they can't afford for the OL to be as poor as it was last year and tonight.
                        Do I hear William Beatty signing? If he was the answer last year, why not this year?

                        No one remembers who came in second.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by mrmeng View Post

                          I'll start off by saying no offense to you personally, we all want the Giants to win. Having said that, I understand it was a weak draft class for the O line and I also understand he "rebuilt" the defense. I'm still not sold on what a "great" job he did by "rebuilding" the defense. He had a ton of money to spend in FA and went and bought/paid the best price for pretty much the best defensive players available. There was NOTHING genius about that, it was common sense. Giants had one of the worst defenses in the league and some of the most money to spend. How do you fix that? Spend a lot of money.

                          I'm sure the Reese supporters will say "but we wouldn't have had that much money to spend if he he wasn't such a great GM" and look where that got us up until that point, one of the worst defenses in the league. Now, since his job was on the line, he went all in on one side of the ball and neglected the other half which is the O line. The O line is what makes or breaks or breaks an offense. It turns average running backs into great running backs and makes great running backs look pedestrian. Eli is in his final years and we all know his mobility is and has been bad, if anything he should have spent more money protecting Eli.

                          This draft class was bad but he never built this line like he should have. He went all in on defense and now westuck with what we have which is not good. It doesn't matter how good Ingram, Bmarsh or OBJ are if Eli doesn't have the time to pass or if we can't establish any sort of run. I'm po'd, hungover and sick of typing so my rant ends here FOR NOW.

                          I just hope there is some miraculous turn around with the o line but based on last night I don't see it happening. Thanks for nothing JR, you scammed your way into a job for another 5 years.

                          I wonder how Reese has any supporters at all. Three or four good draft picks does not make up for years of unbelievably bad draft classes. The reaches and bad picks up and down the draft every year should have a had this clown out the door yeara ago.

                          The line will not improve because he is unwilling to admit when he has blew it. You simply cannot bury your head in the sand and blame everyone around you for your failures.

                          You cannot swing and miss on your first round pick. Especially a top 10 pick. A GM cannot get caught flat-footed and be out manuvered multiple times. The sad state of the OL rests solely on Reese and his terrible staff.

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                          • #28
                            The main thing we should be doing right now with Eli going into his upper 30s is build him a damn wall. Protect the future HOFer. We all know how he is with 5-6 seconds of time as opposed to 2-3 seconds. Flowers Richburg Pugh just isn't making it work.
                            WE ALREADY HAVE A GREAT RUNNING BACK:

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by TheAnalyst View Post

                              No, probably not, but that wasnt the only way to get an OLman. This is years in the making.
                              JR is certainly to blame for our OL problems, but while our OL is not good, most teams have OL issues. For me, it's about whether or not our OL is good enough to win with and how we compare to other teams in the league. The good teams, make it work. The bad teams don't.

                              The whole "our OL was aging, he should have seen that coming" is an easy way to call out any coach. If you have a strength at a certain area, you ride that position as long as you can given how thin money is spread out these days among the rest of the players. An example is Pittsburgh. They rode that defense until it was shot. Same with the OL. It took them years and years to rebuild the OL. The defense is still recovering. Yet somehow, they still won.
                              http://boards.giants.com/showthread....est-game/page6
                              http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html
                              http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8732732/is-new-york-giants-qb-eli-manning-worthy-hall-fame-espn-magazine

                              Entire Team Let Eli down today - NYG4l

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by GeoGoGo View Post

                                I wonder how Reese has any supporters at all. Three or four good draft picks does not make up for years of unbelievably bad draft classes. The reaches and bad picks up and down the draft every year should have a had this clown out the door yeara ago.

                                The line will not improve because he is unwilling to admit when he has blew it. You simply cannot bury your head in the sand and blame everyone around you for your failures.

                                You cannot swing and miss on your first round pick. Especially a top 10 pick. A GM cannot get caught flat-footed and be out manuvered multiple times. The sad state of the OL rests solely on Reese and his terrible staff.
                                You need to compare him to other GMs throughout the league. Then you'll get your answer. But, it's much easier to see that he's missed on a lot of draft picks and assume other GMs don't. JRs problem isn't his hit/miss ratio. It's that all of his misses came at 1 position (OL) and they all missed in consecutive years. He had a bad couple years. But it's nothing out of the ordinary for GMs. Even the best ones.
                                http://boards.giants.com/showthread....est-game/page6
                                http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html
                                http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8732732/is-new-york-giants-qb-eli-manning-worthy-hall-fame-espn-magazine

                                Entire Team Let Eli down today - NYG4l

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