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  • Originally posted by gmen46 View Post
    This is a frequent--on this board--statement regurgitated every time the issue of Eli's clutch factor is raised, and it is irrelevant every time. And just plain ridiculous.

    Your statement can be raised about every QB comeback.

    Yet do you say the same thing about Montana and all his comebacks? About Peyton and Brady) comeback ability? About Elway and Marino when they had thrilling comeback games? About Unitas? All of these QBs (and a few others throughout history) have been, and continue to be, praised by anyone you can think of--players, ex players, coaches, pundits, fans, HOF writer-voters--for their extraordinary "comeback ability". Which of these QBs would you say had their comebacks in games that they were more than adequate in the first half?

    This ability is in fact highly regarded in the select few QBs who are good at it throughout their career. And Eli--only at mid career so far--is include in this select group. There's a reason for that.

    Because all players are human. Because football is a team sport and sometimes other components come up short for a while. Because most pro football games have an ebb and flow to them. Because pro football is not like college ball where superior teams routinely play drastically inferior teams to vastly lopsided scores and total number of points can impact post season positioning.

    And because of these facts of pro football life, it is impressive (and highly valued) when the QB can not only lead the team to overcome earlier deficiencies, but can do it repeatedly and can do it in big games as well.
    To be honest I agree with most of what you say...and on the surface makes a lot of sense.....but what my eyes tell me is when Eli is bad he can be really bad....and yet still finds a way to make his comeback....makes it seem all the more dramatic.........other OBs...the good ones the hof guys have bad halves ....my eyes tell me not as often and never seem like AS bad as some of the stuff ELI does....I am really glad you guys ...love Eli ...I love him myself and love having him as my QB.........I love the fact that he can bury himself in the first half and was thoughtful enough to bring a shovel with him to dig himself out in the 2nd ....but to be honest it would be nice to just have a lead and play from ahead once in a while.....IT just seems like we are ALWAYS playing from behind....you do realize that just because I find small things wrong with eli....I am still rooting for him right?
    "When I was 15, I could not believe how dumb my father was.....when I was 25, I could not believe how much he had learned in 10 years"

    1st to use the phrase "In Reese we trust"

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    • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
      A reasonable person could argue that Eli regressed last season.
      When Drew Breed had a bad year, full of INT's, you said Drew did not regress.

      What was the difference you cited?

      As to he draft drama; he was a man and completely responsible, regardless of who advised him.
      Still bothers me about him.

      It's a privilege to play in the NFL, and he through he was more privileged than others
      Last edited by Delicreep; 06-19-2013, 05:34 PM.
      Every single day I log onto this message board thinking i've seen it all, every single day I am wrong...NYGiants2120

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      • Originally posted by repeatchamps View Post
        The Giants O-line in the same years you are referring to has been questionable at best in pass blocking. Sack numbers are irrelevant because Eli has the ability to get rid of the ball very quickly limiting sacks against. Meanwhile Rivers due to various factors takes way more sacks than Eli ever does under a similar pass rush to what Rivers has faced in the last couple of years you are referring to. As mentioned earlier in this thread, I have watched Chargers games on NFL ticket almost as much as I have Giants games and have done so since both guys became starters for their respective teams so I can make my own judgements/comparisons of their careers and I'm telling you without a doubt that over their entire careers Rivers has had the better O-line more times than not.
        Name the years Eli has had bad pass protection. Never! His pass protection has been mediocre at worst. If last year is the worst it's been for Eli, he was the least sacked QB in the league or close to that. Kiper said the number one thing SD needed was Oline help in the draft after last year. If you watched SD last year then you watched Rivers get killed and run for his life all season long.

        We always had good pass protection, it's the run blocking that has been in decline, but pass protection hasn't been spotty until last year. Like I said last year wasn't that bad relative to other teams struggles. Cutler and Rivers would have killed for last years pass protection that Eli had. You could surmise that Eli is just better at getting rid of the ball quickly, which is in part true, but the line did it's part in pass protection.

        In 2011 the line was A+++ for the Giants, not so much in SD.
        Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

        http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

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        • Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
          Name the years Eli has had bad pass protection. Never! His pass protection has been mediocre at worst. If last year is the worst it's been for Eli, he was the least sacked QB in the league or close to that. Kiper said the number one thing SD needed was Oline help in the draft after last year. If you watched SD last year then you watched Rivers get killed and run for his life all season long. We always had good pass protection, it's the run blocking that has been in decline, but pass protection hasn't been spotty until last year. Like I said last year wasn't that bad relative to other teams struggles. Cutler and Rivers would have killed for last years pass protection that Eli had. You could surmise that Eli is just better at getting rid of the ball quickly, which is in part true, but the line did it's part in pass protection.In 2011 the line was A+++ for the Giants, not so much in SD.
          In 2011 the line was A++++? O_o
          Mood: WOOF!

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          • Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
            That's not an option you have. If I have the option of drafting the #1 pick in the draft I have the rights to the best player available. He should be happy to have a chance to play football for a living.
            K
            Mood: WOOF!

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            • Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
              and for me, its way different with eli making the mistakes hes made, and learning/progressing seadily over the years as opposed to rivers and this huge regresion. eli has had his share of moronic plays. but thats something thats improving over time, not regressing over time like rivers. if eli were making the mistakes he was making in succession, each on worse than the next, and continually getting worse, i'd say the same thing about eli as i am right now about rivers.
              Dude what huge regression are you talking about? You obviously haven't watched Rivers play. 2011 was bad but it was more a really rough patch of games where he played really bad. He picked up his performance near the end of the season, if my memory serves me correct. Last year I thought he played admirably behind a very bad line. Not as good as his first 5 years, but his first 5 years he was looking like a HOFer.

              I thought Eli regressed last year too, but he by no means looked awful for the entire season. In fat he regressed only in light of how well he performed in 2011. In 2011 he looked like a HOF. Will Eli be the QB we saw in 2011 or is 2012 more representative of the play we should expect?

              I say a healthy Nicks and an improved 3rd receiver and an upgraded receiving threat at TE bode well for his future. I think improved run blocking will do wonders for him as well. I'm predicting 2011 performance levels will be the new norm for Eli.
              Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

              http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

              Comment


              • Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                Name the years Eli has had bad pass protection. Never! His pass protection has been mediocre at worst. If last year is the worst it's been for Eli, he was the least sacked QB in the league or close to that. Kiper said the number one thing SD needed was Oline help in the draft after last year. If you watched SD last year then you watched Rivers get killed and run for his life all season long.

                We always had good pass protection, it's the run blocking that has been in decline, but pass protection hasn't been spotty until last year. Like I said last year wasn't that bad relative to other teams struggles. Cutler and Rivers would have killed for last years pass protection that Eli had. You could surmise that Eli is just better at getting rid of the ball quickly, which is in part true, but the line did it's part in pass protection.

                In 2011 the line was A+++ for the Giants, not so much in SD.
                I just cannot agree. Perhaps San Diego the last couple years has fallen to a bit worse than the Giants but overall Rivers has had the better O-line. Eli's pass protection has never been great. It is misleading to see the low sack numbers. Eli has always had a ridiculously quick release even in his rookie year. I know what I've seen since 2006 (when both Rivers and Eli were starters). Rivers has had it better for more seasons than Eli. You want to give the nod to Rivers having it worse last year fine but it is by a small margin and no way was 2011 a good year for the Giants pass protection wasn't great for SD either so I consider it a wash. However other than 2008, Rivers had a better o-line in front of him in 2006, 2007, 2009 and 2010.
                Last edited by repeatchamps; 06-20-2013, 12:18 AM.
                Over 7000 posts, advanced member, joined March 2002. 1st post (as anonymous) was the day after Super Bowl 35

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                • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
                  In 2011 the line was A++++? O_o
                  Think about how man times Eli dropped back. When you played us that year you never game planned for the running game. We had nothing to slow down the pass rush. Pass protections was damn good considering those factors. I don't recall many teams smacking Eli around that year, even though they never had to play the run much. I give the line all the credit in the world.
                  Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                  http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                    Think about how man times Eli dropped back. When you played us that year you never game planned for the running game. We had nothing to slow down the pass rush. Pass protections was damn good considering those factors. I don't recall many teams smacking Eli around that year, even though they never had to play the run much. I give the line all the credit in the world.
                    I don't. That's the reason we were last in rushing, and Eli passed for all those yards. Line was not good by any stretch of the imagination.
                    Mood: WOOF!

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                    • Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                      Name the years Eli has had bad pass protection. Never! His pass protection has been mediocre at worst. If last year is the worst it's been for Eli, he was the least sacked QB in the league or close to that. Kiper said the number one thing SD needed was Oline help in the draft after last year. If you watched SD last year then you watched Rivers get killed and run for his life all season long.

                      We always had good pass protection, it's the run blocking that has been in decline, but pass protection hasn't been spotty until last year. Like I said last year wasn't that bad relative to other teams struggles. Cutler and Rivers would have killed for last years pass protection that Eli had. You could surmise that Eli is just better at getting rid of the ball quickly, which is in part true, but the line did it's part in pass protection.

                      In 2011 the line was A+++ for the Giants, not so much in SD.
                      If you came to the conclusion that the Giants o-line was an A+++ then the only number your looking at, is the times he got sacked, not the whole picture. If our o-line was so good why did we draft one in the first round this year??
                      sigpicShould the Giants fire Gilbride....

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONL7L...yer_detailpage

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                      • Originally posted by repeatchamps View Post
                        I just cannot agree. Perhaps San Diego the last couple years has fallen to a bit worse than the Giants but overall Rivers has had the better O-line. Eli's pass protection has never been great. It is misleading to see the low sack numbers. Eli has always had s ridiculously quick release even in his rookie year. I know what I've seen since 2006 (when both Rivers and Eli were starters). Rivers has had it better for more seasons than Eli. You want to give the nod to Rivers having it worse last year fine but it is by a small margin and no way was 2011 a good year for the Giants pass protection wasn't great for SD either so I consider it a wash. However other than 2008, Rivers had a better o-line in front of him in 2006, 2007, 2009 and 2010. Also you can't discount run blocking as important to a QB's success. You run the ball better the better your QB will look and other than 2008 the Giants have not run blocked better than SD since Eli and Rivers have been at QB.
                        Maybe I was wrong, but I felt like they did the job in pass protection. Besides SF nobody really got to Eli during the run at the end of the season.
                        Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                        http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                          Cam, Wilson, Kap, and RG3 haven't been doing it long enough to get a vote over a QB that over 9 years has a higher QB rating than Eli and that is with his 67 fumbles.

                          Romo is even less clutch than Rivers, but on paper and when you see him play he's better than Eli except when it counts the most. In quarters one through three Romo is, dare I say, elite.

                          You can make a legitimate argument for Stafford and Ryan being better than Rivers.

                          Vick...c'mon. Cutler gambles too much.

                          I like what I see out of Dalton. Haven't watched him enough and compared him to Rivers.

                          Rivers will have a good year this year with no real star at WR and an aging Gates. In terms of pure throwing ability he's better than Eli, fortunately for us it takes more than throwing ability to make a GREAT QB.
                          First off, fumbles don't factor into QB rating.

                          Second off, you can say what I want about the whole 9 years hes been in the league, but what have u done for me lately? Your lying to yourself if u say u wouldn't take Kapernick, Wilson, or RG3 over rivers going into this year. What rivers did 5 years ago really has nothing to do with the argument at hand. Saying you wouldn't take those guys over Rivers is the equivalent of saying you would t take AJ Green over Anquon Boldin or so etching like that.

                          Cam is going into his 3rd year. Not only are his throwing numbers pretty comparable to Rivers but obviously his running game completely puts him over the top.

                          You can't talk numbers to make ur point about Rivers, then back away from it when it comes to Romo. Romo ****s on rivers numbers.

                          Regardless of if u seen Dalton, you shouldn't even be mentioning him because he was drafted same year as Cam.

                          You obviously haven't watched Rivers the past few seasons. Chargers have blown and hes been ahead of that.
                          https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheeBloodSport/

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                          • Originally posted by Eliscruzzz View Post
                            If you came to the conclusion that the Giants o-line was an A+++ then the only number your looking at, is the times he got sacked, not the whole picture. If our o-line was so good why did we draft one in the first round this year??
                            I thought the pass protection was good given how bad the run blocking was. I don't think it was a great line, but if you can't run block and your QB leads you to a SB victory don't you get some credit for doing a decent job pass blocking?

                            We were probably closer to bad then good in 2011. Maybe A+++ is too much. I should say A for effort given how bad the run block.
                            Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                            http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

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                            • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                              You are probably right about Rivers but I have a feeling he's going to have a resurgence this season with a new coaching staff and system.
                              That was a toxic situation in SD.
                              I mean thats fine, I guess I could see him doing better but hes not one of the guys nipping on Eli's heel.

                              And all these young QBs look just as good if not better than Rivers.
                              https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheeBloodSport/

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                              • Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                                No way. Tubby built that team to win with defense first then he kicked up the offense. For most of the time Tubby was there they were defense first. I do agree he's had some of the worst lines ever and until Marshall not much to throw to. He may have the best arm in the league, but he makes awful decisions. He's gotten better the past couple of years.
                                Cutler should of been able to prosecute his lineman for accessory to assault. He got killed. No QB is going to look good. Well see more about cutler this year. Their line got better. Plus lets not forget Martz was there most of his time in Chicago.
                                https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheeBloodSport/

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