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Ernie's scouting report on Eli

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  • Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
    So back in 2004 when we acquired Eli, you were against the move because you wanted Ben? I call bull****.
    Flat out, without question, 'Rooni wanted Big Ben from second 1.

    He actually summed up his thinking in 2004 earlier in this thread - bigger and more NFL ready (in his opinion).
    Every single day I log onto this message board thinking i've seen it all, every single day I am wrong...NYGiants2120

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
      Foundations need to be solid or they won't stand the test of time.

      While the Giants have made a solid investment in him, and I believe he's a "solid" individual, I wouldn't describe his game that way after watching 2012.

      He's delivered the goods no doubt, but there's something about his game that isn't exactly "reassuring". Maybe that's more about the mentality of a long time Giants fan than him, I don't know...
      I believe that feeling that Eli isn't "reassuring" comes from the way he looks and the way he carries himself. His demeanor conveys 'lackadaisical', not confidant in himself, expecting to lose aura. Sometimes he looks like he's ready to cry. When he's playing well and driving the team, you don't see that look of confidance and desire in his eyes. He doesn't walk with his head held high, with a look of fierce determination. He looks like a big hayseed at times... a Boy Scout.... nah, maybe even a Cub Scout, with that doofie blue cap with the tiny brim.
      Eli is the perfect example that you can't judge a book by its cover.
      Easy E.
      His looks belie a fierce competitive nature, as you could see in the home videos of him as a kid, playing with his brothers. Always had to prove himself. It's just the way he is, and I think a lot of detractors are simply constantly waiting for him to mess up strictly because he has never given them a look that THEY can have confidence in. So, when his career is over, just like Simms, they will look back at his body of work, see that he was consistently good, and cut him a break.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Delicreep View Post
        Flat out, without question, 'Rooni wanted Big Ben from second 1.

        He actually summed up his thinking in 2004 earlier in this thread - bigger and more NFL ready (in his opinion).
        1. Its an emperical fact that he's bigger.
        2. Its essentially indisputable that he was more NFL ready given his performance in 2004.
        So Harooni's "opinions" are pretty much facts.
        Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
          Sure they did.
          Well..."a lot" certainly gives MH room to run.

          I remember a lot of crying about the price we paid (mostly from me), but not much else.
          Every single day I log onto this message board thinking i've seen it all, every single day I am wrong...NYGiants2120

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
            I think you might be "misremembering" what the discussion was back at draft time.
            Nah, there were very few people who came out against the move at the actual time of the draft because they wanted Ben instead. I do agree that there are quite a few people who now claim to have held that opinion at the time of the draft, but I think that 90% of them are "misremembering" their draft day opinions.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
              1. Its an emperical fact that he's bigger.
              2. Its essentially indisputable that he was more NFL ready given his performance in 2004.
              So Harooni's "opinions" are pretty much facts.
              No, no no...I'm saying it was his opinion during the draft and prior to the season.
              I'm not sure if a fact can be something that hasn't happened yet.
              Every single day I log onto this message board thinking i've seen it all, every single day I am wrong...NYGiants2120

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
                Nah, there were very few people who came out against the move at the actual time of the draft because they wanted Ben instead. I do agree that there are quite a few people who now claim to have held that opinion at the time of the draft, but I think that 90% of them are "misremembering" their draft day opinions.
                There were plenty of folks who thought we were taken by the Chargers. Especially since there were other QB's rated as highly as Ben and Rivers available to us.
                Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Delicreep View Post
                  No, no no...I'm saying it was his opinion during the draft and prior to the season.
                  I'm not sure if a fact can be something that hasn't happened yet.
                  Well put it this way. Those "opinions" turned out to be right.
                  Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                    There were plenty of folks who thought we were taken by the Chargers. Especially since there were other QB's rated as highly as Ben and Rivers available to us.
                    That's what I remember and it only got worse for a couple 3 years.

                    'member "Frightninglightning" or whatever the heck he went by?
                    Every single day I log onto this message board thinking i've seen it all, every single day I am wrong...NYGiants2120

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                      Well put it this way. Those "opinions" turned out to be right.
                      Not disputing that at all; I was just saying that 'Rooni was vocal and specific.
                      Every single day I log onto this message board thinking i've seen it all, every single day I am wrong...NYGiants2120

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Delicreep View Post
                        Not disputing that at all; I was just saying that 'Rooni was vocal and specific.
                        I see that. I wasn't on the boards at the time so I have no idea.
                        I will say that to answer a few other posters on this thread, it was no a unanimous opinion about Eli at all. Especially when you factor in the trade.

                        I mean if you take a step back and look at both QB's, they have a very similar NFL resume. You can point out specifics that support each guy over the other, but still pretty similar.
                        But one cost the 4th pick in the draft, the 12th player in the draft in 2005 plus a 4th rounder, and the other the 11th player taken in the 2004 draft and nothing else.
                        An argument can be made that it was a bad move by EA. When I say "argument", I'm not saying its correct. But being objective (which isn't possible for Giants or Steelers fans) a reasonable argument could be made.
                        Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by zimonami View Post
                          I believe that feeling that Eli isn't "reassuring" comes from the way he looks and the way he carries himself. His demeanor conveys 'lackadaisical', not confidant in himself, expecting to lose aura. Sometimes he looks like he's ready to cry. When he's playing well and driving the team, you don't see that look of confidance and desire in his eyes. He doesn't walk with his head held high, with a look of fierce determination. He looks like a big hayseed at times... a Boy Scout.... nah, maybe even a Cub Scout, with that doofie blue cap with the tiny brim.
                          Eli is the perfect example that you can't judge a book by its cover.
                          Easy E.
                          His looks belie a fierce competitive nature, as you could see in the home videos of him as a kid, playing with his brothers. Always had to prove himself. It's just the way he is, and I think a lot of detractors are simply constantly waiting for him to mess up strictly because he has never given them a look that THEY can have confidence in. So, when his career is over, just like Simms, they will look back at his body of work, see that he was consistently good, and cut him a break.
                          That's just it. He's not consistently good. It's not a look but it's his play that has you guessing what Eli will show up today. He has to be the most frustrating QB that I've ever cheered for.

                          Kerry was stress free. I knew Kerry was the goods unless the other team started to get pressure on him then he would throw it up for grabs. No stress with the likes of Graham or Brown either. I knew they would play like crap no matter what.

                          Eli though he'll turn your stomach in to knots with his inconsistency, though I prefer his ups and downs to Graham and Brown's downs. I also prefer his inconsistent composure in the pocket when things get rough to Kerry who we new would always throw it up for grabs when things got rough.
                          Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                          http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Delicreep View Post
                            That's what I remember and it only got worse for a couple 3 years.

                            'member "Frightninglightning" or whatever the heck he went by?
                            2 SBs later. I wonder where he is now?
                            http://boards.giants.com/showthread....est-game/page6
                            http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html
                            http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8732732/is-new-york-giants-qb-eli-manning-worthy-hall-fame-espn-magazine

                            Entire Team Let Eli down today - NYG4l

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                              I see that. I wasn't on the boards at the time so I have no idea.
                              I will say that to answer a few other posters on this thread, it was no a unanimous opinion about Eli at all. Especially when you factor in the trade.

                              I mean if you take a step back and look at both QB's, they have a very similar NFL resume. You can point out specifics that support each guy over the other, but still pretty similar.
                              But one cost the 4th pick in the draft, the 12th player in the draft in 2005 plus a 4th rounder, and the other the 11th player taken in the 2004 draft and nothing else.
                              An argument can be made that it was a bad move by EA. When I say "argument", I'm not saying its correct. But being objective (which isn't possible for Giants or Steelers fans) a reasonable argument could be made.
                              From a pure objective point of view, we got fleeced. We gave up the farm for Eli instead of settling for Ben. However, given the results, it really doensn't matter anymore. We won 2. And Pitts won 2 and been to 3.

                              And to be fair, Rivers helped make SD relevant again.
                              http://boards.giants.com/showthread....est-game/page6
                              http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html
                              http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8732732/is-new-york-giants-qb-eli-manning-worthy-hall-fame-espn-magazine

                              Entire Team Let Eli down today - NYG4l

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                                I see that. I wasn't on the boards at the time so I have no idea.
                                I will say that to answer a few other posters on this thread, it was no a unanimous opinion about Eli at all. Especially when you factor in the trade.

                                I mean if you take a step back and look at both QB's, they have a very similar NFL resume. You can point out specifics that support each guy over the other, but still pretty similar.
                                But one cost the 4th pick in the draft, the 12th player in the draft in 2005 plus a 4th rounder, and the other the 11th player taken in the 2004 draft and nothing else.
                                An argument can be made that it was a bad move by EA. When I say "argument", I'm not saying its correct. But being objective (which isn't possible for Giants or Steelers fans) a reasonable argument could be made.
                                I'm happy with how things turned out, but you would have to say it was a bad deal based on how well Ben has turned out. A QB with almost identical performance level, though a much different style of play was available and we wouldn't have to trade away the world.

                                Though I must say the running game and the defense that Ben had to begin was head and shoulders better than anything Eli has had with the exception of 2008. Overall Eli has had better receivers than Ben has had. The Steelers have had better teams overall in the past 9 years.
                                Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                                http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

                                Comment

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