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  • QB wont matter if ....

    I know there are some willing to over look all the injuries, the porous o-line, the bad coaching, and the collapse of the defense that had a stellar last season....

    But let me just say this, if we don't fix the line, it won't matter who we have at QB. Some people think a mobile QB that can extend plays will be the cure all that provides cover for a poor o-line.... I say that is living in fantasy land. Why? If we can't pound the rock to keep the defense honest, our pass game is always going to struggle and we will dink and dunk hoping for a WR to break a tackle and pick up some yac yards. Being able to run the ball successfully sucks the LBers in when we go play action, and it opens stuff up over the middle and down the seam.

    We were not able to run the ball this season! Teams did not respect our run game, and they were able to get pressure on the QB with three or four rushers, leaving more DBs to shut down our WRs.

    So our woes wouldn't even be fixed with the reincarnation of Joe Montana if we can't run the ball. The Eagles game was probably the best we ran all season....

  • #2
    too much focus on the line, there are many issues,line is 1 however it includes declining qb play, most important is who the HC is then many other issues.

    Comment


    • #3
      The problem with the line is there's almost no magic fix through the draft. Colleges are not producing quality olinemen than can contruibe right away, (most of the time). So now you go to plan b, free agency, but sense the giants have a ton of cape space being taken up by two underperforming de, they are in trouble. And why do they have two underperforming De? That answer to that is simple. Jr wasn't smart with his money. And the fact that none of his mid to late round picks at De never did anything. Will expect for d Moore. He got a lot of stupid penalties.
      Last edited by bigbluejeep8888; 12-19-2017, 11:12 AM.
      [SIGPIC]

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rebelfan1966 View Post
        I know there are some willing to over look all the injuries, the porous o-line, the bad coaching, and the collapse of the defense that had a stellar last season....

        But let me just say this, if we don't fix the line, it won't matter who we have at QB. Some people think a mobile QB that can extend plays will be the cure all that provides cover for a poor o-line.... I say that is living in fantasy land. Why? If we can't pound the rock to keep the defense honest, our pass game is always going to struggle and we will dink and dunk hoping for a WR to break a tackle and pick up some yac yards. Being able to run the ball successfully sucks the LBers in when we go play action, and it opens stuff up over the middle and down the seam.

        We were not able to run the ball this season! Teams did not respect our run game, and they were able to get pressure on the QB with three or four rushers, leaving more DBs to shut down our WRs.

        So our woes wouldn't even be fixed with the reincarnation of Joe Montana if we can't run the ball. The Eagles game was probably the best we ran all season....
        A QB that can move would make that O line look a heck of a lot better. Yes they need to upgrade the line...No doubt. But counting on a lot of time in the NFL to throw the ball with THOSE athletes on the defensive side is unwise.
        In the NFL, QB's are going to face pressure. We have to have a guy who can handle it better.
        Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't think people are looking for a mobile QB to cure everything...I think most would like a QB with at least some mobility to help out. But yes...the oline and run game need to improve.

          Comment


          • #6
            We need a new left tackle but the other positions on the line you can fudge it.

            The opportunity to to take a QB in the top 5 of the draft comes around very seldom . One thing is for sure you could have a great OL but without a good QB you arenít winning jack

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TE88 View Post
              We need a new left tackle but the other positions on the line you can fudge it.

              The opportunity to to take a QB in the top 5 of the draft comes around very seldom . One thing is for sure you could have a great OL but without a good QB you arenít winning jack
              Agreed, we'll need a QB soon. Hopefully the Browns pick the wrong one. But if we somehow drop out of #2 I won't cry a river. Eli showed he can still sling it if the opportunity is present. The line provided Eli with enough time against a really good dline on Sunday. Want to see what Odell and eli can do with that much time to throw. It can still happen even if we draft a QB. Eli will start and if he struggles then the rookie can take over.

              I'm not worried about our offense the oline has shown steady improvement this year and hopefully we can draft a guard and resign Fluker. Put Jerry on the bench for depth. With the right coaching our offense can turn around real quick.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                A QB that can move would make that O line look a heck of a lot better. Yes they need to upgrade the line...No doubt. But counting on a lot of time in the NFL to throw the ball with THOSE athletes on the defensive side is unwise.
                In the NFL, QB's are going to face pressure. We have to have a guy who can handle it better.
                Logical Captain
                1927, 1934, 1938, 1956, 1986, 1990, 2007, 2011

                Osi Umenyiora : " There's Nothing Like Being a NY GIANT ! "

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by rebelfan1966 View Post
                  I know there are some willing to over look all the injuries, the porous o-line, the bad coaching, and the collapse of the defense that had a stellar last season....

                  But let me just say this, if we don't fix the line, it won't matter who we have at QB. Some people think a mobile QB that can extend plays will be the cure all that provides cover for a poor o-line.... I say that is living in fantasy land. Why? If we can't pound the rock to keep the defense honest, our pass game is always going to struggle and we will dink and dunk hoping for a WR to break a tackle and pick up some yac yards. Being able to run the ball successfully sucks the LBers in when we go play action, and it opens stuff up over the middle and down the seam.

                  We were not able to run the ball this season! Teams did not respect our run game, and they were able to get pressure on the QB with three or four rushers, leaving more DBs to shut down our WRs.

                  So our woes wouldn't even be fixed with the reincarnation of Joe Montana if we can't run the ball. The Eagles game was probably the best we ran all season....
                  I agree with the OP, but let's try this argument some different ways. -- Nevermind the fact that QBs aren't sure locks either, and that the next Dak Prescott or Tom Brady may be out there in the later rounds.

                  1. If your plan is to draft a quality QB, you need to do it with that 2nd pick. However, if you are drafting quality OL, you can afford to trade down for more picks.

                  2. If you go with a 1st round QB, you are almost guaranteeing a losing season in 2018. Because who starts??? If Eli starts, then wtf do you get a QB? May as well work with Webb for another year.

                  3. Don't forget, part of trading down at #2 is the possibility that you can negotiate for a team's 2019 1st round pick. If a saavy GM can do that and still stay in the 1st round, now you have TWO 1st round draft picks for 2019. If it's from, say, the sorry Jets, you'll make out even better.

                  4. Why is no one talking about Luke Falk or Mason Rudolph? They could be had in the later rounds.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                    A QB that can move would make that O line look a heck of a lot better. Yes they need to upgrade the line...No doubt. But counting on a lot of time in the NFL to throw the ball with THOSE athletes on the defensive side is unwise.
                    In the NFL, QB's are going to face pressure. We have to have a guy who can handle it better.
                    Matty ice took some big hits last night and still hung in there to make the throw. He did that all last year too. We don't need a lamar Jackson, but we do need someone who can move around the pocket and create that extra second to throw the ball.
                    [SIGPIC]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bigbluejeep8888 View Post
                      The problem with the line is there's almost no magic fix through the draft. Colleges are not producing quality olinemen than can contruibe right away, (most of the time). So now you go to plan b, free agency, but sense the giants have a ton of cape space being taken up by two underperforming de, they are in trouble. And why do they have two underperforming De? That answer to that is simple. Jr wasn't smart with his money. And the fact that none of his mid to late round picks at De never did anything. Will expect for d Moore. He got a lot of stupid penalties.
                      I think they need to cut a lot of dead wood to free up Cap Space and go out and sign two Quality O Lineman in FA this offseason. Then that would not put so much pressure on the Draft having to hit big. Still Draft a couple of them as well as a RB DE LB WR besides the QB in Round 1

                      Other option is to sell the 2nd pick for a Kings Ransom and still possibly get Josh Allen, Mayfield, or L Jackson later in the first besides getting a bunch of extra picks to fill the mountain of holes they have. Thst would make more sense with the rebuild they have to do. Trade the pick in first two rounds and end up with 4-6 extra picks this year and probably a extra 1st & 2nd next year
                      Football has been very, very good to us.
                      After losing seasons 2013-15, the giants put up 11 wins in 16.. they are on way Back
                      But for now we can console ourselves with this fact-

                      # of Super Bowl victories since 1985:

                      1-Chicago, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Seattle
                      2-Washington, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore
                      3-San Francisco, Dallas, Denver
                      4-New York Giants!!!
                      5-NE
                      Let's make it 5 in 2016 so we can be on a LINE NE again!!!

                      ***Stat provided by "Schloss22"***

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DarkSaint View Post

                        Agreed, we'll need a QB soon. Hopefully the Browns pick the wrong one. But if we somehow drop out of #2 I won't cry a river. Eli showed he can still sling it if the opportunity is present. The line provided Eli with enough time against a really good dline on Sunday. Want to see what Odell and eli can do with that much time to throw. It can still happen even if we draft a QB. Eli will start and if he struggles then the rookie can take over.

                        I'm not worried about our offense the oline has shown steady improvement this year and hopefully we can draft a guard and resign Fluker. Put Jerry on the bench for depth. With the right coaching our offense can turn around real quick.
                        The fringe scenario is if they love Davis Webb more than any of the QBs in the draft/ they hate the QBs in the draft. Itís going to be a weird dynamic as the new GM is not yet on the job. Unfortunately for Webb all the people that know him best are likely gone before the new GM takes up shop.

                        if they love Webb then this draft could be a chance to accumulate a lot of picks or take another top talent in the early picks. Going to be interesting.

                        i think Eli can still play, but a lot has happened and it is hard to predict what will happen next. Depends if the new GM sees Eli as an asset or an anchor

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rebelfan1966 View Post
                          I know there are some willing to over look all the injuries, the porous o-line, the bad coaching, and the collapse of the defense that had a stellar last season....

                          But let me just say this, if we don't fix the line, it won't matter who we have at QB. Some people think a mobile QB that can extend plays will be the cure all that provides cover for a poor o-line.... I say that is living in fantasy land. Why? If we can't pound the rock to keep the defense honest, our pass game is always going to struggle and we will dink and dunk hoping for a WR to break a tackle and pick up some yac yards. Being able to run the ball successfully sucks the LBers in when we go play action, and it opens stuff up over the middle and down the seam.

                          We were not able to run the ball this season! Teams did not respect our run game, and they were able to get pressure on the QB with three or four rushers, leaving more DBs to shut down our WRs.

                          So our woes wouldn't even be fixed with the reincarnation of Joe Montana if we can't run the ball. The Eagles game was probably the best we ran all season....
                          I have said that for about 5 years now. But another additional fix would be a more mobile QB, Not a "runner", but one who can get out of the way
                          ďNever argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.Ē MB Rule # 1

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by miked1958 View Post
                            I think they need to cut a lot of dead wood to free up Cap Space and go out and sign two Quality O Lineman in FA this offseason. Then that would not put so much pressure on the Draft having to hit big. Still Draft a couple of them as well as a RB DE LB WR besides the QB in Round 1

                            Other option is to sell the 2nd pick for a Kings Ransom and still possibly get Josh Allen, Mayfield, or L Jackson later in the first besides getting a bunch of extra picks to fill the mountain of holes they have. Thst would make more sense with the rebuild they have to do. Trade the pick in first two rounds and end up with 4-6 extra picks this year and probably a extra 1st & 2nd next year
                            From what Paul d said in the radio a week or so ago, the gisnts are gonna try to make another run with Eli and not blow up the team. I hope he is wrong
                            [SIGPIC]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                              A QB that can move would make that O line look a heck of a lot better. Yes they need to upgrade the line...No doubt. But counting on a lot of time in the NFL to throw the ball with THOSE athletes on the defensive side is unwise.
                              In the NFL, QB's are going to face pressure. We have to have a guy who can handle it better.
                              Yep, this is basically it. Eli needs a top level OL to really flourish. Don't think we can put that together quickly.

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