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The argument for taking Saquon at 2

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  • #31
    Originally posted by NYSPORTS View Post

    So when did the best HB win a Super Bowl? Tell me the cost of a QB when the Giants picked 4th and it cost them an extra #1 and #2 just to move up for Eli. What's the cost today and do you expect the Giants to pick in the Top 4 soon? What's your solution to QB which is the most important position in sports? BTW, what's the franchise tag number for HB when compared to other positions? There is a reason it's so low.
    To me, the fact that top RBs havent won doesnt mean you stay away from taking a top flight talent there. Each team and situation is different. If the Giants fall in love with a QB, then they will take him. But 2 of the top 5 are now reported to be going back to school. With Cleveland most likely taking one ahead of us, what does that leave? If the Giants want to go with Eli one more year and try to further develop Webb, I can get behind it if Barkley is the choice. What he will do for this offense goes just beyond running the ball. He is a terrific receiver and can line up almost anywhere. Good pass blocker and just the threat of him back there will open up the pass game. The 2 high S look will go, as one will have to come up in the box.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by tdawg1413 View Post
      I am going back and forth with what to do at #2. Ideally, we trade back and acquire some more ammo to work with. And obviously, the QB is in play as well. But with it looking like Darnold might be going back to school, does Cleveland take Rosen at 1? Or does a team jump us and take Rosen there?

      Regardless, I have turned my attention to us taking the best player at that spot. The best player in this draft and imo its not close is Saquon Barkley. I know people will point to the OL situation and that if there is no OL, how will Saquon be effective. To me, this is a bad way to think about taking a player of this magnitude. One way or another, the OL will be improved. A mix of FA and draft picks will upgrade that unit. If we are thinking of grabbing Saquon, I think resigning Fluker is a must. We can look back to how good the run game performed once DJ was put in at RG.

      But also, as bad as our OL was and is, our 2 main RBs (Darkwa and Gallman) averaged 4,4 and 4.3 ypc. That is a pretty good number. So think about an improved OL with a top flight RB like Barkley back there. Now think of our offensive scheme in general which cannot be worse than what McAdoo used. And put Odell, Engram and Barkley on the field at the same time. The offense can be quite good with all of these elements. At this point, Saquon is the best choice for us at 2.

      Thoughts?
      I think you can add Sheppard as well who would benefit from Barkley.
      There is another thing to consider too. Average longevity of the position.
      If you get the right QB he could last until his mid / late 30's.
      Running back ? Most of the time they go downhill big time by 30
      if they last that long. But I like your thought process. Not sold on
      the QB's.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by TE88 View Post

        Even if Rosen is there at 2 I am not sold.
        As a player I am sold on Rosen. He is terrific. There are all the other things that give me pause, simply because you dont know whats true and whats not in regards to his personality.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by bigjeep View Post

          Eli has 2 years left with us! The problem with the "WIN NOW" with Eli is, if you don't bring home a SB in those 2 years then you have wasted 2 years that could have been spent totally rebuilding this mess. I have watched the "WIN NOW" with the Knicks and Melo and it turned out to be a total waste of time. I'd rather rebuild with a new QB and young drafted players. Also we need to unload some of the dead wood which translates into addition by subtraction!
          I don't think the roster needs to be rebuilt. The same defense allowed this team to go 11 and 5 with an inept offense, coaching staff and scheme. Let's get a better Coach, a better scheme and fix the offensive line.

          The core players are still young. Another run or two with Eli at the helm, wouldn't jeopardize the success of the team in the long run. the core players will just be entering their Prime. you will still have a solid team that webb can potentially lead

          the Knicks failure was due to an organizational decision to trade for Melo instead of waiting and picking him up in free agency, if he really wanted to be a knick. The Supporting Cast needed for the Knicks to contend were traded away in the Melo deal thus setting the franchise back a decade Plus
          That's why we discuss, We all have different perspectives. Ride and Die with the NY Giants

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          • #35
            http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2...rge_of_gi.html

            This podcast really opened my eyes about RB at #2 as much as I love Barkley

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            • #36
              Originally posted by tdawg1413 View Post

              Sure, you can find RBs anywhere. You cannot find Saquon Barkley anywhere. So either you get the QB and or you take Barkley. There are NO OL worth a pick this high. Unless you want to force it like we did with Flowers over Gurley. And I like Gallman quite a bit. He does not have close to the talent level of Barkley.
              Really?......They found Kamara in the third round. The best Barkley can hope for it to be as good as Kamara and THAT is unlikely.

              I personally don't see the wiggle on Barkley. I see a good athlete with lots of measurables but his productivity was actually very uneven this year.

              And it's productivity that matters....Period. Nice player I'm sure...But this declaration that he is some kind of transformational RB is WAY over the top.
              If Rutgers can stop him....I'd give Dallas, Philly and Washington a decent chance as well.
              It's not Eli's fault....It's the chemtrails!!!!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by TCHOF View Post

                I love Barkley, but in the end I think that you are probably right.

                Another thing to consider is the cost of obtaining RB's via FA ... very low when compared to the costs of obtaining other positions like OL, DL, CB, etc. Drafting Barkley at #2 would put us in a position where we are paying big money for a position that can otherwise be filled cheaply.

                IMO, if we decide not to go QB at 2, we should trade back if possible.
                Valid. But you canít gamble with the #2 pick. Either theyíre convicted about a QB or I think they might have to take Barkley. Unless they are super confident about the rest of the draft board. More picks is nice but Barkley is probably 90% chance he turns out as advertised. I donít think there is any other player in the draft like that. So itís a big gamble to think youíre going to be able to make an equivalent upgrade with other picks. Like I say if Gettleman is confident about the rest of he board then trading down is nice...if not letís keep it simple stupid and draft the best player we can . I do not want to see he Flowers mistake (shopping hungry) repeated

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                • #38
                  Barkley is projected to be better than Zeke and GURLEY. We would have a star RB and WR looked in for years....if I'm the GM I'm taking Barkley...hes a good humble kid and has no of the field issues...all they need to is get some O-linemen in free agency and we can get linemen in the later rounds also.

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                  • #39
                    I think you have to take a QB at #2. Im glad Darnold will most likely not be in the equation. He was not impressive in my opinion. I still say that Mayfield will be the best QB in this draft. Let Rosen flounder in Cleveland. Trade back a little if possible and take Mayfield.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                      We have to get OFF the Barkley train here.
                      Taking a RB at #2 is insanity. RB's are not at the kind of premium that other positions are.
                      look at this past year's draft.
                      In RD 1 we saw Fournette and MCcaffrey go in RD 1....Nice players.
                      But who are the best RB's in that draft?

                      Kareem Hunt....Rd 3
                      Alvin Komara....Rd 3
                      Dalvin Cook.... Rd 2

                      And if you are thinking there were some misses in between?...forget it. the only other back was Mixon and HE looks like a stud as well.

                      Hunt and Komara were HUGE impact players on those teams. They were had in RD 3. Cook may be the best of all of them but he got hurt early so we will see.
                      Barckley seems like a nice player but THAT position is not worthy on the 2nd pick in the draft. That is friggin crazy. I suppose if we trade down and get him AND a QB we like it makes more sense but even then...it makes little sense to me.

                      Plus look at our team. I can see them featuring Gallman and then either drafting or acquiring a speed guy to compliment him. THAT makes more sense for us and doesn't use up a top pick.
                      +1

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                        Really?......They found Kamara in the third round. The best Barkley can hope for it to be as good as Kamara and THAT is unlikely.

                        I personally don't see the wiggle on Barkley. I see a good athlete with lots of measurables but his productivity was actually very uneven this year.

                        And it's productivity that matters....Period. Nice player I'm sure...But this declaration that he is some kind of transformational RB is WAY over the top.
                        If Rutgers can stop him....I'd give Dallas, Philly and Washington a decent chance as well.
                        Everything is there with Barkley. Teams put 8 or 9 in the box against Penn State to stop him. Did you see what he did to Washington this past week...a team with a very good college D. Kamara was in the exact perfect system for his talents. And it worked. You can find good players at almost any position throughout the draft. You dont find Saquon Barkley's anywhere.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by moosedrool View Post

                          You obviously haven't watched tape of Barkley. He is a completely different back than the RB's you list. Possible 30 carry a game guy. A rare talent.
                          Barkley would do VERY well to be as good as the three guys I listed....... VERY WELL!

                          If you really want to spend the #2 pick on a RB there is nothing else to say. I just think that makes no sense.
                          How many times have you complained about our O line? How many times have you said no one can function behind that line?
                          But one kid, with very uneven productivity is going to change all that.

                          I just simply disagree.
                          It's not Eli's fault....It's the chemtrails!!!!

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by StroSwift10NYG View Post
                            Barkley is projected to be better than Zeke and GURLEY. We would have a star RB and WR looked in for years....if I'm the GM I'm taking Barkley...hes a good humble kid and has no of the field issues...all they need to is get some O-linemen in free agency and we can get linemen in the later rounds also.
                            By who?
                            Which NFL GM has said that? Those are the only ones that matter because they are the only ones who are paid to make those decisions.
                            It's not Eli's fault....It's the chemtrails!!!!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by StroSwift10NYG View Post
                              Barkley is projected to be better than Zeke and GURLEY. We would have our star RB and WR looked in for years....if I'm the GM I'm taking Barjley...hes a good humble kid and has no of the field issues...all they need to is get some linemen in free agency plus we can get linemen in the later rounds.
                              Barkley is a stud. Anybody who doesn't see it doesn't get it. How did Dallas play with/without Zeke? Barkley will have that kind of impact.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                                Really?......They found Kamara in the third round. The best Barkley can hope for it to be as good as Kamara and THAT is unlikely.

                                I personally don't see the wiggle on Barkley. I see a good athlete with lots of measurables but his productivity was actually very uneven this year.

                                And it's productivity that matters....Period. Nice player I'm sure...But this declaration that he is some kind of transformational RB is WAY over the top.
                                If Rutgers can stop him....I'd give Dallas, Philly and Washington a decent chance as well.
                                And the production is there. The guy has 45 TDs the last 2 years! He had over 2,000 total yards this year

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