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The Logisitics of Keeping Eli Manning

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Gee718 View Post

    He's still an excellent game manager and has the tools to win it all. The problem is, everything has to be done perfectly for him to excel. The pass protection, routes, etc....He doesn't have the mobility to improvise and get receivers open down field.
    I feel you can describe most QBs that make it to the NFL in this way. Eli just does it better than most. This is why the league sees Keenum now playing well. All these guys just need the circumstance to showcase their abilities.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by LakeO Giant fan View Post
      Good work. The talent on most NFL teams is fairly similar amongst the starters. Of course depth is a huge factor that dictates how successful teams end up. To me, a team can "buy in" due to early success and give that maximum effort with belief that they can go somewhere. It is just as common for teams to fold the tents and just go through the motions due to early failure, injuries, heartbreakers--this was a factor with the 2017 NY Giants. This is why coaching is huge. I think the guy in SD did a great job holding his team together and in the playoff hunt despite a bunch a heartbreaking losses early in the season.

      As for your contract/money analysis, it helps show what good fortune the Giants had in being able to land Webb in the 3rd round. He's as likely to end up a polished pro as the top 4 or 5 college prospects and doesn't have the same initial contract liability. This is why as a TEAM fan, it is in our best interest to hope he can be the guy. It is part of the solution in building a long term contender--instead of patchwork nonsense.
      I'm shocked...a post by LakeO Giant fan that turned into a Davis Webb promo.

      You're consistent...I'll give you that!

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post

        I have to assume the new staff will be running their own system and not our previous one. And I have to admit that I'm a bit surprised no one has been talking about it after all the talk over Eli having to learn McAdoo's.
        Very good point. I did completely forget about that actually. If the new offensive mind of the team (HC or OC) keeps Eli, it would mean the scheme would be a "simplified" version of his grand plan for the offense for at least the first half of the season. (Depending on Eli's ability to grasp the system)

        And the OTHER players also have to grasp the system before it can be completely used.

        after considering your point, I think it is very likely Eli may leave in one way or the other. Unless he plans to stick around as this team is "replenished" over the next 2-3 years.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by BigBlue:TNG View Post
          Since the day McAdoo benched Eli Manning, these forums have constantly had talk of "Eli should be the starter for the next few years!" OR "it is time to move on!". I personally do not think he is terrible. He is a good QB, but not a game-changer like the "elite" QBs are. (Though I feel a few teams would prefer to have Eli than the mess they have now). **cough** Jags **cough**

          Since I love math, and was sick with a stomach bug all last week , I decided to look at how the Giants would look cap-wise IF they use their second overall pick for a future franchise QB AND keep Eli to bridge the succession period.

          Bear in mind, I ONLY drafted the first round pick in this scenario. I did not add anyone else in free agency or in the draft. And I only cut those players on the current roster that, to me, were clearly practice squad material.

          I factored our rookie QB would be paid similar to last year's second overall pick, Mitch Trubisky. He has a total contract value of around $29million. And a 2017 salary cap charge of around $5.2million.

          So having factored in those criteria, below is our remaining cap space, and current roster for the team. (https://overthecap.com/calculator/new-york-giants) link to site I used to help me calculate the cap space.

          Cap space = $18.7million
          Players under contract = 51
          "!" = positions I think need upgrading below

          ROSTER
          QB - Eli Manning / Rookie QB / Davis Webb

          RB! - Wayne Gallman / Paul Perkins / Shane Smith

          WR - OBJ / Brandon Marshall / Sterling Shepard / Dwayne Harris / Roger Lewis / Darius Powe / Hunter Sharp

          TE - Evan Engram / Rhett Ellison / Jerrell Adams

          OT!! - Ereck Flowers (gag) / Chad Wheeler / Nick Becton / Adam Bisnowaty / Jessamen Dunker

          OG!! - John Jerry / Zak DeOssie / Damien Mama / Ethan Cooper

          C!! -




          DE - JPP / OV / Jordan Williams / Romeo Okwara / Avery Moss

          DT - Damon Harrison / Dalvin Tomlinson / Josh Banks / Kristjan Sokoli

          OLB!! - Ray-Ray Armstrong

          ILB! - BJ Goodson / Calvin Munson / Joshua Perry / Derrick Matthews

          CB - Janoris Jenkins / DRC / Eli Apple / Brandon Dixon / Jeremiah McKinnon / Donte Deayon

          S - Landon Collins / Darian Thompson / Tim Scott / Andrew Adams / Ryan Murphy

          P - Brad Wing

          K! - Marshall Koehn

          $18.7million is not a lot of cap space to go hunting for any of the "big game" players during the free agency period! I do not see how this team can fix this o-line with such a tight budget. At least my amateur, stomach-virus weakened mind cannot fathom how

          Due to the cap situation, I feel EITHER 1) Eli stays, they continue with Webb at backup, trade back for more picks, and try one last shot at a championship with a young team around Eli OR 2) they cut/trade/"retire" Eli, draft a new QB, and use the around $10million extra cap space from Eli leaving to fill more holes on the team. But I do NOT think you can keep Eli AND an early first round QB with our current cap situation. ($28.2million for 3 QBs)

          But this is why Gettleman is being paid millions and I am sitting at home theorizing what my favorite team in the NFL will do. So I am content, for now, to sit back and enjoy this coming off-season. (And of course, watch these playoff games)

          I am ready for my fellow fans' comments and opinions on this info. Good, Bad, and Ugly of course
          I believe you forgot Quarterback and Punter for upgrades. Eli and Wing were terrible
          Last edited by CruzSoldier; 01-10-2018, 01:35 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by LakeO Giant fan View Post

            As for your contract/money analysis, it helps show what good fortune the Giants had in being able to land Webb in the 3rd round. He's as likely to end up a polished pro as the top 4 or 5 college prospects and doesn't have the same initial contract liability. This is why as a TEAM fan, it is in our best interest to hope he can be the guy. It is part of the solution in building a long term contender--instead of patchwork nonsense.
            Thanks for your commendation. I did notice that as you move from the middle of the 2nd round and further back, no rookie contract exceeds $1million. That just further emphasizes the need to succeed in draft picks to make up the bulk of your roster.

            Not including first round picks...
            if half of your draft picks every year can play up to the level of being starters, that means after 4 years (the cycle of draft picks you would have before having to negotiate new contracts with the 1st year of players), you would have 12 starters and 12 worthy backups on your team for less than $1million each. Almost half a roster.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by CruzSoldier View Post

              I believe you forget Quarterback and Punter for upgrades. Eli and Wing were terrible
              Hahahahaha. Good one. I believe Wing can return to playing like he did in 2016. But if he continues to struggle, yeah, get him out of there too.
              And I would hope if our roster has Eli, Webb, and a 2nd overall QB pick, that we would not need to find anyone else. But we have to wait to know that

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by BigBlue:TNG View Post

                Hahahahaha. Good one. I believe Wing can return to playing like he did in 2016. But if he continues to struggle, yeah, get him out of there too.
                And I would hope if our roster has Eli, Webb, and a 2nd overall QB pick, that we would not need to find anyone else. But we have to wait to know that
                I donít mind if Eli is a bridge QB for the future franchise draft pick but we need to restructure his deal 23 million for him and heíís sucked 4 out of 5 years is not helping to fix the team. If he doesnít agree then itís thanks for the memories Eli. As for Wing I like Florida Punter Johnny Townsend he gets great hang time on his punts and they arenít all over the place like Wingís punts. Wingís masterful jobs have cost us 2 games last year.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by BigBlue:TNG View Post

                  Very good point. I did completely forget about that actually. If the new offensive mind of the team (HC or OC) keeps Eli, it would mean the scheme would be a "simplified" version of his grand plan for the offense for at least the first half of the season. (Depending on Eli's ability to grasp the system)

                  And the OTHER players also have to grasp the system before it can be completely used.

                  after considering your point, I think it is very likely Eli may leave in one way or the other. Unless he plans to stick around as this team is "replenished" over the next 2-3 years.
                  Salary cap issues aside, the only thing that makes sense is for the new coaching to staff to install their system and let the best players play. If it's Eli, then it's Eli, if not it will be Webb or the QB they draft.

                  The Giants have to move forward and cannot be hamstrung by trying to do right for any one player for sentimental and/or salaried reasons.

                  As for Eli, no matter where he plays in the future, he'll start because he gives that team the best chance to win, with the reality that it's only a matter of time before he'll be asked to sit again.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by LakeO Giant fan View Post

                    As for your contract/money analysis, it helps show what good fortune the Giants had in being able to land Webb in the 3rd round. He's as likely to end up a polished pro as the top 4 or 5 college prospects and doesn't have the same initial contract liability. This is why as a TEAM fan, it is in our best interest to hope he can be the guy. It is part of the solution in building a long term contender--instead of patchwork nonsense.
                    We have no idea whether it was "good fortune" to land Webb in the 3rd round until he actually plays for us. Some scouts thought he was a borderline 1st round pick, others thought he was overrated and that since he was coming from an air raid offense in college it would take a couple years at least to have him ready to start for an NFL team. I think that's part of the reason we drafted him. We figured we'd have Eli for another couple years and then transition to Webb if he showed promise. Unfortunately the team's dismal performance this season (Eli included) has changed the timeline and we now have the rare opportunity to pick 2nd overall in the draft with several promising QB prospects.

                    Honestly I don't think this team is going to be able to compete for a super bowl next season with a new offense so it makes a lot more sense to cut Eli with a June 1 designation and then just start either Webb or Rosen/Darnold depending on who looks better in training camp and preseason.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Gee718 View Post

                      His 40+ attempt days should be over. He's still an excellent game manager and has the tools to win it all. The problem is, everything has to be done perfectly for him to excel. The pass protection, routes, etc....He doesn't have the mobility to improvise and get receivers open down field.

                      I prefer a pocket passer, but one who can roll out at least, or run a QB sneak.
                      Sounds like you prefer football in the backyard more than the NFL.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Tito-Wooten View Post

                        We have no idea whether it was "good fortune" to land Webb in the 3rd round until he actually plays for us.
                        You'll have to excuse LakeO Giant fan. I think he truly believes that every team in the NFL just forgot that Davis Webb was available until sometime in the late-third round.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Gee718 View Post
                          Eli would excel in a run first offense. Cut down on his attempts and his accuracy will improve. Unfortunately, he's had to turn nothing into something for too many years, due to bad rosters.

                          His 40+ attempt days should be over. He's still an excellent game manager and has the tools to win it all. The problem is, everything has to be done perfectly for him to excel. The pass protection, routes, etc....He doesn't have the mobility to improvise and get receivers open down field.

                          I prefer a pocket passer, but one who can roll out at least, or run a QB sneak.
                          Right right.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by big blue dog View Post

                            Agree here think if Eli is still here or has taken a pau cut he will have to compete for his spot this year,it's also possible the jags with that defense try a trade if Eli will wave the no trade clause,which is probably best for everyone.
                            pay cut I doubt. A restructure maybe. If he stays on the Giants he will not have to compete in camp but will be on a leash of some sort. Interesting to see if the Jags make an offer. Lets see what Bortles does going forward. He stunk last week as a QB. He ran for more yards than he passed. ....
                            "Measure Twice......Cut Once"
                            You couldn't be more full of **** if you were break dancing in a Port-a-Potty.......Kruunch

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post

                              I have to assume the new staff will be running their own system and not our previous one. And I have to admit that I'm a bit surprised no one has been talking about it after all the talk over Eli having to learn McAdoo's.
                              I'm thinking that with a new coach and a new system it might be the time to draft a QB and let him get going right away as the starter, let the new QB get through his bumps and move on...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by GameTime View Post

                                pay cut I doubt. A restructure maybe. If he stays on the Giants he will not have to compete in camp but will be on a leash of some sort. Interesting to see if the Jags make an offer. Lets see what Bortles does going forward. He stunk last week as a QB. He ran for more yards than he passed. ....
                                I have a feeling they will come calling but Bortles has one more chance to prove there is no need.

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