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If he wants to be a Giant for life, Eli Manning needs to look to Kurt Warner on how to do things the right way

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  • Originally posted by TEM View Post

    I can agree with that That ship sailed the Eli situation made it hit an iceberg.


    I don't agree with the whole stop gap point you are making.



    A team does not pay a QB 20 + as a stop gap for one season. Don't use Cousins They tagged him.

    By you point one could conclude:

    Favre ,( went to the NFC Championship and pro bowl ) was a stop gap for 4 years that started the day the packers drafted Rodgers.

    Montana ( super bowl champs 89,90 .3 prow bowls 3 All pro seasons ) was a stop gap that started the day the 49s acquired Young

    The only 2 situations off the top of my head that can be correlated to what you are conveying.

    Eli is in a continuing contract. Just as Farve and Montana were.

    Is you point a stop gap is a player in a position until the next guy takes over. If that is it , That is the case with every player that has ever started.
    It's semantics if you ask me. You can say that every player is a stop gap until he gets beat out from another, especially once they get older.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by speedman View Post

      Your Eli agenda is making you crazy over this situation. If they donít take a QB at 2 I fear you will jump off of a building.
      As much I would love Barkley and to think Eli could play for 3 more years, I think it would be a huge error not to take a QB from the #2 spot.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post

        It's semantics if you ask me. You can say that every player is a stop gap until he gets beat out from another, especially once they get older.
        That is all that is it . You stated in 2 sentences the way it is .
        There's two times of year for me: Football season, and waiting for football season.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TEM View Post

          I can agree with that That ship sailed the Eli situation made it hit an iceberg.


          I don't agree with the whole stop gap point you are making.



          A team does not pay a QB 20 + as a stop gap for one season. Don't use Cousins They tagged him.

          By you point one could conclude:

          Favre ,( went to the NFC Championship and pro bowl ) was a stop gap for 4 years that started the day the packers drafted Rodgers.

          Montana ( super bowl champs 89,90 .3 prow bowls 3 All pro seasons ) was a stop gap that started the day the 49s acquired Young

          The only 2 situations off the top of my head that can be correlated to what you are conveying.
          Eli is in a continuing contract. Just as Farve and Montana were.

          Is you point a stop gap is a player in a position until the next guy takes over. If that is it , That is the case with every player that has ever started.






          Well the contract is definitely a problem but they inked that deal when Eli was coming off a good statistical year. They really have no choice but to pay because the cap hit if they cut him or traded him would be huge. So I don't see the contract as relevant. They reality they wouldn't be paying him that if they had a choice right now.
          I'm only saying that in practical terms, IF we pick a QB at #2, the clock is ticking on Eli.
          As I said before...I looked at the last QB taken in the top 3 and I couldn't find one going all the way back to 2002, that DIDn't become the starter his first season...That includes Eli Manning. I counted 21 QB's ALL of them became starters in year 1.

          To suggest that we pick a guy that high and we will go on as if nothing has changed at QB is to deny recent history.
          The fact is that if we take the QB, he is probably going to be the starter before season's end.
          Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

            Well then everyone wins. Makes me happy.
            I'll call 911

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

              Well the contract is definitely a problem but they inked that deal when Eli was coming off a good statistical year. They really have no choice but to pay because the cap hit if they cut him or traded him would be huge. So I don't see the contract as relevant. They reality they wouldn't be paying him that if they had a choice right now.
              I'm only saying that in practical terms, IF we pick a QB at #2, the clock is ticking on Eli.
              As I said before...I looked at the last QB taken in the top 3 and I couldn't find one going all the way back to 2002, that DIDn't become the starter his first season...That includes Eli Manning. I counted 21 QB's ALL of them became starters in year 1.

              To suggest that we pick a guy that high and we will go on as if nothing has changed at QB is to deny recent history.
              The fact is that if we take the QB, he is probably going to be the starter before season's end.
              The clock is always ticking . It does not matter who the player is. As far as QBs starting in their first seasons. Who was in front of them has as much to do with that. I think I made that point with Montana and Farve.
              There's two times of year for me: Football season, and waiting for football season.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post

                Yes, the circumstances of how each got into this position are totally different, but no one can deny the similarity if we take the heir apparent with our 2nd pick.

                Eli, just like Kurt, isn't ready to concede his career just yet. Both are looking to prove they still can play winning football for a few more years.





                ​​​​​​​
                If we take QB at 2, and Gettleman improves the OLine, then the ball is in Eli's court. If he plays well he will show that word of his demise was wrong, and that it was because of the poor line in '16 and '17. If he plays poorly, then he has to take his lumps as Warner did, and step aside for the new blood.
                Another thing, however, about Warner. Many forget that in his 5-4 record, before he was replaced by Eli, he had lost 2 in a row and didn't look good, taking 8 or 9 sacks in those 2 games and taking a chicken kneel at the 1 late in the 4th Qtr on 4th down, in a 17-14 loss to the Cardinals, when he could easily have scored if he had put his head down and just dove for the line. Kurt took 39 sacks in those 9 games... then Eli took 13 in his 7 games. Kurt held on to the ball way too long and looked tentative... just the facts, and that was why TC went to Eli.
                Now, if Eli looks similarly bad this new season, he has to man up and give a rook his chance.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by TEM View Post

                  The clock is always ticking . It does not matter who the player is. As far as QBs starting in their first seasons. Who was in front of them has as much to do with that. I think I made that point with Montana and Farve.
                  I think right now...the QB's are Eli and Webb. in the current context it's reasonable to assume Eli is the guy for all of 2018 and maybe into 2019. But if it becomes Eli anf Darnold. Or Eli and Mayfiled...the dynamics will change completely. At that point everyone will be looking past Eli and waiting for the new guy to take over.

                  Once we draft a QB, if we do.....everything will change.
                  Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                    I think right now...the QB's are Eli and Webb. in the current context it's reasonable to assume Eli is the guy for all of 2018 and maybe into 2019. But if it becomes Eli anf Darnold. Or Eli and Mayfiled...the dynamics will change completely. At that point everyone will be looking past Eli and waiting for the new guy to take over.

                    Once we draft a QB, if we do.....everything will change.
                    If Eli is winning in both seasons . I don't see a move . If he is not game on.
                    There's two times of year for me: Football season, and waiting for football season.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by TEM View Post

                      If Eli is winning in both seasons . I don't see a move . If he is not game on.
                      That may be true. But it would rarely happen. I have to correct myself, Philip Rivers did not start in 2004. Drew Brees' great play kept him off the field. But even then, Drew Brees was still the place keeper.
                      As I have said throughout this thread, Eli will be determined to prove the FO wrong about the QB position. But that will be a tall order because the new regime will have picked their guy and will look for any excuse to get him on the field.

                      Hey...they could take Barkley or trade back and not draft a QB and that would make this all moot. Let's find out together,
                      Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by TE88 View Post

                        It won't be an issue the next time because if they decide to go with another QB at any point Eli will simply be flat out benched. And then he will do exactly what he did this past season and go down to the second string, work hard and be a supportive teammate. Then likely released upon season's conclusion. Or, if that decision is made in an offseason, he will simply be released.

                        There won't be any stupid offers of partial playing time etc. Plus the QB they go to will be a guy who they believe is the next starter. Whether that is Davis Webb, a draft pick, or someone else. It won't be a backup whom there are no plans to start in future years.

                        Really this is a non issue. Eli knows the score. In fact, he knew it better than anyone this year as he was the one who bowed out to let Geno take the reigns. As he said, if they want to play those other guys then they should play. He didn't ask for any special consideration.

                        It was everyone else who made fools of themselves.

                        I think he will start in 2018 as long as the team is winning. If they are mathematically eliminated or things are going way south early on then they will go to the "kid" whoever that turns out to be.
                        It looks like Eli will be the starter next season at least until he shows he can't do it any more and then he will sit the bench and when the season is over he will walk off into the sunset with his 200 million and watch football on TV or as a sports caster on TV..

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post

                          It's semantics if you ask me. You can say that every player is a stop gap until he gets beat out from another, especially once they get older.
                          a stop gap would be someone brought in to patch a hole until more permanent player takes over ... Kurt Warner Giants ... Josh McCown Jets ... Jay Cutler in Miami etc etc

                          a temporary fix

                          a 15 year vet starter playing on one team cannot be a stop gap ... they are merely an aging player
                          Last edited by YATittle1962; 02-10-2018, 11:24 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                            That may be true. But it would rarely happen. I have to correct myself, Philip Rivers did not start in 2004. Drew Brees' great play kept him off the field. But even then, Drew Brees was still the place keeper.
                            As I have said throughout this thread, Eli will be determined to prove the FO wrong about the QB position. But that will be a tall order because the new regime will have picked their guy and will look for any excuse to get him on the field.

                            Hey...they could take Barkley or trade back and not draft a QB and that would make this all moot. Let's find out together,
                            I agree. The FO has an idea on what they will do. I have said this. I will be cool with whatever they do. I have made my comments on what i want them to do and why, The fact is none of us are the GM. It is fun discussing it with all the dissimilar points of view.
                            Last edited by TEM; 02-10-2018, 11:23 AM.
                            There's two times of year for me: Football season, and waiting for football season.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post

                              As much I would love Barkley and to think Eli could play for 3 more years, I think it would be a huge error not to take a QB from the #2 spot.
                              Only if they think one of these QBís is a franchise QB. I would prefer they trade back to 5 or 6 and take Nelson because no QB or RB is going to help if they donít fix the OL.
                              Engage brain before speaking.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by YATittle1962 View Post

                                a stop gap would be someone brought in to patch a hole until more permanent player takes over ... Kurt Warner Giants ... Josh McCown Jets ... Jay Cutler in Miami etc etc

                                a temporary fix

                                a 15 year vet starter playing on one team cannot be a stop gap ... they are merely an aging player
                                As I said before YA...that is a matter of semantics. In practice the reality would be the same. He would simply be there to hold the position until the new guy was ready.
                                Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

                                Comment

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