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If he wants to be a Giant for life, Eli Manning needs to look to Kurt Warner on how to do things the right way

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  • Originally posted by YATittle1962 View Post

    the position Kurt Warner was is and the position Eli Manning is in are absolutely nothing alike.... nothing

    they are both males and they’re both older quarterbacks… That’s about where it ends

    Kurt came to the Giants after 2 horrible seasons (partly because of injury). Regardless of what Kurt thought, at that time no one else thought he was anything but a hedge against a rookie QB they made a huge bet on.

    I still dont see how the Warner/Eli thing is the same as the Eli/?? thing that might happen.

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    • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

      Who doesn't at my age?
      word
      "Measure Twice......Cut Once"
      You couldn't be more full of **** if you were break dancing in a Port-a-Potty.......Kruunch

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      • Originally posted by JesseJames View Post

        Eli knows this because it will be a rerun of the same scenario between Eli and Kurt Warner when Eli got here
        If you look at Eli and Warner and then disregard that one has been with the team for a decade and a half and one was unemployed and desperate for work, then they are the same.

        If you think that the fan base and owners look at Warner and Eli, and have the exact same loyalty, depth of feeling and appreciation for what they achieved with the Giants, then they are indeed the same.

        If you think that the owners will have the same "quick trigger" to pull a guy whose Giants career could be measured in days as they will for a guy who brought them 2 SB runs, then they are the same.



        Congratulations to #usawomanshockey! Not only for winning the Gold Medal, but for leading announcers to utter a phrase never heard before: "their arch rival Canada"

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        • Originally posted by Delicreep View Post

          If you look at Eli and Warner and then disregard that one has been with the team for a decade and a half and one was unemployed and desperate for work, then they are the same.

          If you think that the fan base and owners look at Warner and Eli, and have the exact same loyalty, depth of feeling and appreciation for what they achieved with the Giants, then they are indeed the same.

          If you think that the owners will have the same "quick trigger" to pull a guy whose Giants career could be measured in days as they will for a guy who brought them 2 SB runs, then they are the same.


          It's a fair point...and clearly the situations are not identical. But there ARE similarities. Don't forget the "trigger" would be pulled by people who are new to the organization. People who would have just drafted the heir apparent with the #2 pick and would want the new era, with their name on it, to start pretty soon.
          Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

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          • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

            It's a fair point...and clearly the situations are not identical. But there ARE similarities. Don't forget the "trigger" would be pulled by people who are new to the organization. People who would have just drafted the heir apparent with the #2 pick and would want the new era, with their name on it, to start pretty soon.
            I think your thought that the new coach would have 100% of the say is off a bit. It should be that way, but it isn't.
            Here's where the primary difference will come:

            Warner was a temp; pulling him on spec for how Eli would do was relatively easy - no one had any connection to him at all ad all hopes were on Eli, who they gave up king and country for.

            Eli ain't a temp; the owner is very loyal to him, the fan base is reasonably loyal to him and pulling him for a high draft pick that could sit a year and learn (as a conservative owner like Mara may do) will not happen unless they have seem strong indications he will perform.

            And there's my commercial for why the Giants may well want to move on from Eli if they take that QB #2. Some may want to see Eli on the sidelines while the new guy struggles, but it's not a great place for the FO to be in
            Congratulations to #usawomanshockey! Not only for winning the Gold Medal, but for leading announcers to utter a phrase never heard before: "their arch rival Canada"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Delicreep View Post


              And there's my commercial for why the Giants may well want to move on from Eli if they take that QB #2. Some may want to see Eli on the sidelines while the new guy struggles, but it's not a great place for the FO to be in
              What gave to inclination that any in the FO (GM,Coach or Owner) suggested the pick would become the starter and Eli would sit, let alone move on from him?
              Did not the coach and GM and ownership state Eli was the starter?

              http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2...eaders_ba.html

              It states with pretty compelling evidence the Giants are not going to move on the QB.
              There's two times of year for me: Football season, and waiting for football season.

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              • Eli is a Giant for life.....period. I wasn’t against moving on, but it is clear now from the new coach and GM that Eli retires a Giant. Last season wasn’t his fault. A pathetic offensive line, weak RB group along with high school play calling doomed the offense, regardless of the QB behind center.

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                • Originally posted by Delicreep View Post

                  I think your thought that the new coach would have 100% of the say is off a bit. It should be that way, but it isn't.
                  Here's where the primary difference will come:

                  Warner was a temp; pulling him on spec for how Eli would do was relatively easy - no one had any connection to him at all ad all hopes were on Eli, who they gave up king and country for.

                  Eli ain't a temp; the owner is very loyal to him, the fan base is reasonably loyal to him and pulling him for a high draft pick that could sit a year and learn (as a conservative owner like Mara may do) will not happen unless they have seem strong indications he will perform.

                  And there's my commercial for why the Giants may well want to move on from Eli if they take that QB #2. Some may want to see Eli on the sidelines while the new guy struggles, but it's not a great place for the FO to be in
                  All true. But as of right now....Eli IS a temp. What came before is good reason to look fondly on Eli and his impact on our franchise. But right now we are looking forward. And when we do that, if we take a QB, looking forward means getting the new kid on the field....and finding an excuse to do so.
                  Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

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                  • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                    All true. But as of right now....Eli IS a temp. What came before is good reason to look fondly on Eli and his impact on our franchise. But right now we are looking forward. And when we do that, if we take a QB, looking forward means getting the new kid on the field....and finding an excuse to do so.
                    That would be true for one scenario but there are multiple scenarios......it is a little more complicated.
                    Your scenario would have been true for Webb around game 11 or 12 this past year.
                    No one remembers who came in second.

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                    • Originally posted by Southern Living View Post
                      Eli is a Giant for life.....period. I wasn’t against moving on, but it is clear now from the new coach and GM that Eli retires a Giant. Last season wasn’t his fault. A pathetic offensive line, weak RB group along with high school play calling doomed the offense, regardless of the QB behind center.
                      100% QFT!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Southern Living View Post
                        Eli is a Giant for life.....period. I wasn’t against moving on, but it is clear now from the new coach and GM that Eli retires a Giant. Last season wasn’t his fault. A pathetic offensive line, weak RB group along with high school play calling doomed the offense, regardless of the QB behind center.
                        Man plans and God laughs.

                        I don’t think anyone expected John Mara to summons his GM to see someone other than Eli taking snaps under center last year.

                        While I would love to see Eli go out on his terms, I am not about to tell anyone what will happen. We’re just going to see how things play out.

                        Eli knows there’s a very good chance the Giants will be drafting his replacement at #2.

                        If Eli plays well enough and we are winning, he’ll remain the starter. If not he will be sat down.

                        Just like Kurt Warner was.



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                        • Originally posted by jomo View Post

                          That would be true for one scenario but there are multiple scenarios......it is a little more complicated.
                          Your scenario would have been true for Webb around game 11 or 12 this past year.
                          Well I disagree.
                          There is a big difference a third round pick and the 2nd player taken in the draft. When you pick a guy THAT high....they want you on the field sooner than later.
                          As I said...NO QB taken in the top three for 13 years has not started games in season1.
                          Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                            .
                            As I said...NO QB taken in the top three for 13 years has not started games in season1.
                            That doesn't make it right, you are just restating history.
                            I could use the disclaimer here that we hear on every financial advertisement which goes something like "past performance is no guarantee of future results?"

                            It's always a little more complicated than you would prefer to make it.
                            What has been true forever isn't necessarily so going forward.

                            So, there are some scenarios where that won't necessarily happen.
                            There are also scenarios where the kid starts on day one.

                            I don't quite understand why you get one idea and close out everything else...
                            That's nor how football or life really work for most of us.
                            The answer is almost always..........."it depends."
                            No one remembers who came in second.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by jomo View Post

                              That doesn't make it right, you are just restating history.
                              I could use the disclaimer here that we hear on every financial advertisement which goes something like "past performance is no guarantee of future results?"

                              It's always a little more complicated than you would prefer to make it.
                              What has been true forever isn't necessarily so going forward.

                              So, there are some scenarios where that won't necessarily happen.
                              There are also scenarios where the kid starts on day one.

                              I don't quite understand why you get one idea and close out everything else...
                              That's nor how football or life really work for most of us.
                              The answer is almost always..........."it depends."
                              This entire argument comes from my response to YA. In my response I said that despite Kurt Warner being "told" what the situation was, he would still be determined to prove them wrong and try to earn the starting job....just as Eli will, despite what the plan would be.

                              That's all. THAT is the similarity. You guys can add on whatever else you want. But that's my only point.

                              Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                                Well I disagree.
                                There is a big difference a third round pick and the 2nd player taken in the draft. When you pick a guy THAT high....they want you on the field sooner than later.
                                As I said...NO QB taken in the top three for 13 years has not started games in season1.
                                This stat is only meaningful if you list the starting QB’s for those teams and if any of them were replaced because of injury.
                                Engage brain before speaking.

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