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WHAT are YOU going say when ELI brings us one more SUPER BOWL RING ??!!

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  • Originally posted by G1.. View Post

    As good as his receivers were /are his O line and protection has been that bad, you can't just pick one position and say they were great .
    For many of those years his O line was very good. Later they changed the scheme to much more of a three step drop, throw it quickly type of game. That's one reason why he's still of of the least sacked QB's in football. In 2016 so many of their big plays were short throws to Odell where he broke loose for long gains.
    So yes, the O lien was poor, but the scheme was designed to mitigate the impact of that. So many NFL QB's deal with poor protection but these NFL schemes are designed to deal with it.

    In our case, Eli's inability to move is killing us. He's become horrible in the pocket. When there are 5 or 7 step drops required he simply can't handle a pass rush.

    You think Nate Solder is going to change that. Brady had Solder protecting his back last year and go watch the way Brady moves in the pocket. You think he was back there counting the house? he wasn't. As slow as he is, he's still great in the pocket, he can still extend plays.

    Eli simply cannot.
    Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

      For many of those years his O line was very good. Later they changed the scheme to much more of a three step drop, throw it quickly type of game. That's one reason why he's still of of the least sacked QB's in football. In 2016 so many of their big plays were short throws to Odell where he broke loose for long gains.
      So yes, the O lien was poor, but the scheme was designed to mitigate the impact of that. So many NFL QB's deal with poor protection but these NFL schemes are designed to deal with it.

      In our case, Eli's inability to move is killing us. He's become horrible in the pocket. When there are 5 or 7 step drops required he simply can't handle a pass rush.

      You think Nate Solder is going to change that. Brady had Solder protecting his back last year and go watch the way Brady moves in the pocket. You think he was back there counting the house? he wasn't. As slow as he is, he's still great in the pocket, he can still extend plays.

      Eli simply cannot.
      Until you surround Eli with Brady type talent(including coaching) you can't compare him with Brady.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by G1.. View Post

        Until you surround Eli with Brady type talent(including coaching) you can't compare him with Brady.
        You don't think Tom Brady would love to have Odell Beckham?

        You think in 2011 he wouldn't rather have Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Ahmad Bradshaw and Brandon Jacobs?
        Over whatever mediocre WR's he had, especially the drop king in Wes Welker?

        Brady's "weapons" throughout his career" dwarf to what we've had during that time. He had Randy Moss for a couple years and of course Gronk...who was hurt all the time. Other than that his supporting cast was mediocre at best.
        Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by G1.. View Post
          Again I agree with a lot of what you're saying but I blame Reese ,Mara and Coughlin as much as McAdonothing for not surrounding Eli with better personnel
          TC was scapegoated for Reese's ineptitude. TC is a HOF coach who had his flaws but he kept Reese employed longer than he deserved by winning those 2 SB.

          Also, TC had nothing to do the last 2 years. This was all Mac. Even Reese doesn't get much of the blame from me on offense because he's not putting together the game plan. That's on Mac.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by EliDaMANning View Post

            TC was scapegoated for Reese's ineptitude. TC is a HOF coach who had his flaws but he kept Reese employed longer than he deserved by winning those 2 SB.

            Also, TC had nothing to do the last 2 years. This was all Mac. Even Reese doesn't get much of the blame from me on offense because he's not putting together the game plan. That's on Mac.
            TC was the most powerful person in the Giants organization. He wasn't the victim of anyone. He got the players he wanted....He decided who played where.
            He coached the team exactly the way he wanted.
            Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

              You don't think Tom Brady would love to have Odell Beckham?

              You think in 2011 he wouldn't rather have Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Ahmad Bradshaw and Brandon Jacobs?
              Over whatever mediocre WR's he had, especially the drop king in Wes Welker?

              Brady's "weapons" throughout his career" dwarf to what we've had during that time. He had Randy Moss for a couple years and of course Gronk...who was hurt all the time. Other than that his supporting cast was mediocre at best.
              Stop the spin,don't even try that crap.add in the rest of the post. Give Brady our O line and we take his and see what happens

              Comment


              • Originally posted by G1.. View Post

                Stop the spin,don't even try that crap.add in the rest of the post. Give Brady our O line and we take his and see what happens
                2017 was a different story. But give Tom Brady OUR weapons? He'd kill for them. Especially those we had from 2005 thru 2012 or so,

                Yes his O line has been better. But his O line in 2015 was one of the worst in football. Everyone got hurt. Still took that team to the AFC championship game.

                I'm not going to spend any more time talking about Tom Brady. the ultimate point I'm making however is that the argument that Eli Manning has had an inferior supporting cast is complete nonsense. He's had the best arsenal of pass catchers in team history throughout his career.

                It's an excuse unsupported by facts.
                Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                  You don't think Tom Brady would love to have Odell Beckham?
                  Oh sure, I could definitely see Brady hugging Beckham after a G.B. - like performance, and telling him not to worry about it. Not.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by TCHOF View Post

                    So you have no answer to my questions. Just as I suspected.
                    im not your stat *****. the information is out there. if you want to make a point, do it like I did.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                      TC was the most powerful person in the Giants organization. He wasn't the victim of anyone. He got the players he wanted....He decided who played where.
                      He coached the team exactly the way he wanted.
                      It's amazing that people don't understand that. All one has had to do is listen to the words of John Mara. He was very clear with two issues surrounding Tom. 1) He never had players forced on him, and 2) He questioned Tom and the coaching staff about their non-use of young players.

                      But I digress as this is just another example of some of our Eli-fans always finding a reason for his lack of success due to no fault of his own. There's always someone else who should be blamed. And when the Giants make a change, these fans always talk up the change telling us now we'll see just how good Eli is until things don't work out again. It's the circle of Eli.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by alwaysready View Post

                        im not your stat *****. the information is out there. if you want to make a point, do it like I did.
                        You made a point about PFF grades to which I followed up and you conveniently ignored it. If you cannot support your point, than it was a weak effort.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post


                          And here are Eli's PFF rankings for that same period. I think most reasonable Giants fans understand that our problems offensively weren't limited to one thing.

                          And please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm assuming PFF focuses on individual potential on a given play, correct? In other words, if there's a jail break and Eli gets sacked, I'm guessing they wouldn't grade that against Eli.

                          2013 - 20
                          2014 - 17
                          2015 - 24
                          2016 - 20
                          2017 - 26
                          if that is true, then PFF is more fundamentally flawed (as has been discussed ad nauseam) than I thought. Ever hear of causality? I love it when people say its black and white to justify their position and then argue how much gray area there is when refuting someone else's....classic.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post

                            You made a point about PFF grades to which I followed up and you conveniently ignored it. If you cannot support your point, than it was a weak effort.
                            it was a weak follow up. if you had a point to make, then make it. you tried to discredit the premise of my post by refuting it with a hypothetical question and then told me to provide stats to substantiate it. if you dont see the flaw in that follow up, then just be done with the conversation. if you wanted to bring data to substantiate your position, then im all ears.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by alwaysready View Post

                              im not your stat *****. the information is out there. if you want to make a point, do it like I did.
                              By citing only the stats that help your position and not even researching others?

                              No thanks.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                                2017 was a different story. But give Tom Brady OUR weapons? He'd kill for them. Especially those we had from 2005 thru 2012 or so,

                                Yes his O line has been better. But his O line in 2015 was one of the worst in football. Everyone got hurt. Still took that team to the AFC championship game.

                                I'm not going to spend any more time talking about Tom Brady. the ultimate point I'm making however is that the argument that Eli Manning has had an inferior supporting cast is complete nonsense. He's had the best arsenal of pass catchers in team history throughout his career.

                                It's an excuse unsupported by facts.
                                We aren't talking about 2015 and even if the line was hurt the FO knew enough to draft capeable back ups ...so my point is still the same. Brady did not lose all his receivers in one game or have the injuries that the Giants had last year or the league leading drops of catchable balls so you can pretty much blow TB out of the discussion.You're trying to tell me that Brady would give up Amendola and Gronk for our receiving crew,no, not in 2015,16,or 17

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