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How do you "build around" a 37 year old exactly?

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  • How do you "build around" a 37 year old exactly?

    Even if Eli does have "at least two years " left, which I personally doubt, why would you not want to pick his successor when you have a chance to draft in the top two like this? I just don't get the thinking. I don't see how anyone can have truly high conviction that Webb is a worthy successor. Nobody on this board can, and I would argue the team can't either since they have barely even seen him play in the preseason, let alone in the regular season.I just think it makes no sense to take a QB, and I have yet to hear a convincing argument that it does. Eli has been very bad the last two years. Sure, you can blame it all on the O line if you want to, but he is not the first QB to play behind a bad line. His performance was bad in spite of that. And it has been going on for two seasons. Why would he all of a sudden be good at age 37-40? Why would you not want to secure a future QB with this opportunity?

  • #2
    How convinced are you that our future QB is in this draft. We took your namesake as a supplemental pick and you know how that turned out. Hopefully there is a QB they like in this draft or they can take the future HOF guard. Eli has had an incedibly bad offensive line for the past 3 years and no running game so I cannot lay all this at his feet. If Eli has two years then you can build around him by solidifying this porous excuse of a line and providing a running game that all defenses do not need to consider when game planning.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by nobait4me View Post
      How convinced are you that our future QB is in this draft.
      No more or less convinced than I would be any other year when you're picking a player who has never played in the NFL before. What I am convinced of (it's not really up for debate) is that most starting caliber NFL QBs are picked in the first round. Guys like Wilson and Brady are the anomalies. Look around the league. Good QBs get taken early in the draft, not where Webb was taken.

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      • #4
        And I can tell you this: I cannot think of a worse outcome than us not taking a QB, Webb not panning out as anything more than a backup type, Eli flaming out in the next year or two, and meanwhile the Jets spend the next 15-plus years enjoying perennial Pro Bowl to All Pro caliber play out of a Josh Rosen or Josh Allen, either of whom we could have had.

        If we don't take a QB in this draft, there is a good chance we'll be looking for Andy Dalton/Sam Bradford FA types in the next offseason or two. I shudder to think about that.

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        • #5
          They need to rebuild thus team to a degree with or without Eli as the QB.
          I really don't think Eli being the QB hampers much at all in thst regard. If they really want one if these young QBs they will draft him.
          "it won't matter who we pick at #2 because whoever it is we need him..."

          ​​​​​​ -Jesse James

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          • #6
            They need to move on from Eli after 2018. I love the guy, but that is painfully clear. Drafting a QB now makes all the sense in the world. Have both him and Webb work under Eli this season, and then make a decision in the next offseason. The odds of both Webb and whichever QB they draft BOTH being studs are extremely low, but if that actually happened that's a great position to be in, not a bad one. A bad position to be in would be to not take a QB in this draft, have Eli continue to decline, and then ultimately discover that Webb doesn't have it. What would be the plan then exactly?

            I just don't think you play fast and loose with an opportunity like they have right now. It's a great chance to get a top QB. Next year's QB class is not nearly as strong.

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            • #7
              [QUOTE=Dave Brown;n31079973

              I just don't think you play fast and loose with an opportunity like they have right now. It's a great chance to get a top QB. Next year's QB class is not nearly as strong.[/QUOTE]

              What makes you think they are playing fast and loose? You make it seem like it's a done deal. Maybe they are drafting a QB. But it would be dumb to draft one at #2 if you have no faith in him. You don't just do it to do it.
              Last edited by GameTime; 03-25-2018, 07:21 AM.
              "it won't matter who we pick at #2 because whoever it is we need him..."

              ​​​​​​ -Jesse James

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Dave Brown View Post
                And I can tell you this: I cannot think of a worse outcome than us not taking a QB, Webb not panning out as anything more than a backup type, Eli flaming out in the next year or two, and meanwhile the Jets spend the next 15-plus years enjoying perennial Pro Bowl to All Pro caliber play out of a Josh Rosen or Josh Allen, either of whom we could have had.

                If we don't take a QB in this draft, there is a good chance we'll be looking for Andy Dalton/Sam Bradford FA types in the next offseason or two. I shudder to think about that.
                If Eli flames out like you think then we will be bad again next year and probably in the same position. You donít just take a qb at 2 for the sake of doing it. You have to be convinced heís the guy. If not you just set your franchise back 5-10 years.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by giantsfam04 View Post

                  If Eli flames out like you think then we will be bad again next year and probably in the same position. You donít just take a qb at 2 for the sake of doing it. You have to be convinced heís the guy. If not you just set your franchise back 5-10 years.
                  Next year's QB class is not as good as this one. This is the year. Every analyst agrees with this. Between Rosen, Darnold, Allen, and Mayfield you have potentially four good NFL starting QBs there. Most years you have one or two, if that. The Giants need to come out of this draft with their QB of the future.

                  Eli is already flaming out. Putting the blame entirely on the line is wrong. Rivers had a worse line than Eli in 2016 and didn't perform nearly as poorly. Plus even if he magically does play a little bit better, what is the future at age 37?

                  The only way I would be supportive of not taking a QB in this draft would be if I were highly confident that we already had our QB of the future in Webb. But since the previous coaches refused to play him last season (not to mention barely playing him in even the preseason), nobody has any idea.

                  To not take a QB in this draft is irresponsible for the future of the franchise.

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                  • #10
                    Just like they did when they brought Kurt Warner here. Or the way the packers built their team including Aaron Rodgers. Whatís so hard to understand about this.

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                    • #11
                      You build around him the same way you build around a young QB. Protect him and give him weapons to use. The thought that you draft a QB at 2 because you are drafting high is not very smart, that's how you end up with Ryan Leaf or Blaine Gabbert. If you take a QB you have to be right. None of these QBs give me the feeling they are guaranteed for success.

                      Darnold is the only QB worthy of a top 5 pick all things considered. Darnold loves for football, is a great leader, can make every NFL throw, accurate, smart and clean off the field.

                      Rosen is almost the same except not as athletic. More polished. My big concerns would be durability and his leadership and love of the game.

                      Allen has huge potential but also has bust potential. His inaccuracy and level of competition scares me.

                      Mayfield just scares me to death off the field and his character. He will soon be humbled in the NFL, can he handle that. Also his showing at the senior bowl didnt exactly look good at all. He looked overwhelmed not having a much superior oline and receivers running wide open like he did at OU.

                      All that said you draft a sure thing at 2. The list should be Darnold, Barkley, Nelson, Chubb.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dave Brown View Post
                        Even if Eli does have "at least two years " left, which I personally doubt, why would you not want to pick his successor when you have a chance to draft in the top two like this? I just don't get the thinking. I don't see how anyone can have truly high conviction that Webb is a worthy successor. Nobody on this board can, and I would argue the team can't either since they have barely even seen him play in the preseason, let alone in the regular season.I just think it makes no sense to take a QB, and I have yet to hear a convincing argument that it does. Eli has been very bad the last two years. Sure, you can blame it all on the O line if you want to, but he is not the first QB to play behind a bad line. His performance was bad in spite of that. And it has been going on for two seasons. Why would he all of a sudden be good at age 37-40? Why would you not want to secure a future QB with this opportunity?
                        When you rebuild you can't get it all done at the same time. Eli is under contract, he can still play at a decent level so I don't see it as building around him but rather building around the position.
                        ďNever argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.Ē MB Rule # 1

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dave Brown View Post
                          Even if Eli does have "at least two years " left, which I personally doubt, why would you not want to pick his successor when you have a chance to draft in the top two like this? I just don't get the thinking. I don't see how anyone can have truly high conviction that Webb is a worthy successor. Nobody on this board can, and I would argue the team can't either since they have barely even seen him play in the preseason, let alone in the regular season.I just think it makes no sense to take a QB, and I have yet to hear a convincing argument that it does. Eli has been very bad the last two years. Sure, you can blame it all on the O line if you want to, but he is not the first QB to play behind a bad line. His performance was bad in spite of that. And it has been going on for two seasons. Why would he all of a sudden be good at age 37-40? Why would you not want to secure a future QB with this opportunity?
                          Easy, just as the Giants did it in 2004 with Kurt Warner and a newly drafted Eli Manning.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MagicManning View Post

                            All that said you draft a sure thing at 2. The list should be Darnold, Barkley, Nelson, Chubb.

                            There is no such thing as a "sure thing" regarding a college player jumping to the NFL level. Every......single....pick....is a roll of the dice. No one knows if they're going to play well at this level, but you still have to take the chance when you're in the kind of position that the Giants are in.

                            The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd - Bertrand Russell

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dave Brown View Post
                              Even if Eli does have "at least two years " left, which I personally doubt, why would you not want to pick his successor when you have a chance to draft in the top two like this? I just don't get the thinking. I don't see how anyone can have truly high conviction that Webb is a worthy successor. Nobody on this board can, and I would argue the team can't either since they have barely even seen him play in the preseason, let alone in the regular season.I just think it makes no sense to take a QB, and I have yet to hear a convincing argument that it does. Eli has been very bad the last two years. Sure, you can blame it all on the O line if you want to, but he is not the first QB to play behind a bad line. His performance was bad in spite of that. And it has been going on for two seasons. Why would he all of a sudden be good at age 37-40? Why would you not want to secure a future QB with this opportunity?
                              Simple:
                              None of them the Giants want,
                              The one the Giants' wanted was picked.

                              Hope that clears it up for you.

                              In reality and The Giants FO knows this

                              On any give draft it is 70% that a franchise QB is taken

                              After the first QB is off the board it is 50%

                              For franchise QB going 1,2 it is 15%

                              A franchise QB taken after the 1st round 25% chance in any draft that one will be chosen.

                              The data shows after the first one is taken . It is a roll of the Dice.
                              Last edited by TEM; 03-25-2018, 09:06 AM.
                              The Dallas Cowboys have now gone exactly One Third of their pathetic existence without a Super bowl appearance.

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