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maybe front office should have looked ahead and started Webb at end of last season

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  • Originally posted by Sarcasman View Post

    As much as it may pain you to hear this, your nemesis Morehead summed it up perfectly. Smith was signed to be backup and it was a good signing. He is a cable NFL backup QB.

    He wasn't intended nor was there ever a reason for him to ever be the starting QB.
    Except that McAdoo and Reese both made statements like the one below, last year in March shortly after the signing......



    Gary Myers
    NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

    Updated: Wednesday, March 29, 2017, 1:23 AM
    PHOENIX - Imagine this: Eli Manning eventually passing the baton to Geno Smith. It's a Big Blue Nightmare for Big Blue Nation.
    Ben McAdoo caused Giants fans to skip a heartbeat and run to their cardiologists Tuesday when he suggested that Smith, the newly signed ex-Jet train wreck, is in line to be the heir to the Manning throne when Eli calls it quits or the Giants ask him to leave.
    Geno Smith taking over for Manning?

    “I can’t see why not,” McAdoo said.
    Last edited by jomo; 04-18-2018, 10:37 PM.
    No one remembers who came in second.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by jomo View Post

      Except that McAdoo and Reese both made statements like the one below, last year in March shortly after the signing......



      Gary Myers
      NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

      Updated: Wednesday, March 29, 2017, 1:23 AM
      PHOENIX - Imagine this: Eli Manning eventually passing the baton to Geno Smith. It's a Big Blue Nightmare for Big Blue Nation.
      Ben McAdoo caused Giants fans to skip a heartbeat and run to their cardiologists Tuesday when he suggested that Smith, the newly signed ex-Jet train wreck, is in line to be the heir to the Manning throne when Eli calls it quits or the Giants ask him to leave.
      Geno Smith taking over for Manning?

      “I can’t see why not,” McAdoo said.
      Like I said, no point in looking back. Neither of them are here anymore and maybe that kind of scouting is in part why.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by fletch842 View Post

        I'll one up you on this sentiment. I thought that they should have rolled with Eli and Webb last year, and no 3rd QB. That would have afforded Webb far more developmental time, and opened a slot for another position player.
        Coming out of the year before, I can see why they wanted a veteran backup if you feel you're a SB contender. But Geno...c'mon man.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by PRGiant View Post

          Coming out of the year before, I can see why they wanted a veteran backup if you feel you're a SB contender. But Geno...c'mon man.
          LOL, exactly.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sarcasman View Post

            Like I said, no point in looking back. Neither of them are here anymore and maybe that kind of scouting is in part why.
            Yeah, but this poor decision making and handling of personnel seems to be the main reason why many assume Webb will never be a starter, either.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by PRGiant View Post

              Coming out of the year before, I can see why they wanted a veteran backup if you feel you're a SB contender. But Geno...c'mon man.
              Agreed, and that is why I fuss about people trying to change the narrative here. ie "Geno was signed to be a backup and nothing else."

              That could be true but it IS NOT what the HC and GM said when they signed Smith AND when they started him.

              I hate dumping on the former GM, thought he was a genius and we were truly blessed after 2007 but in the last 5 years he seemed to have lost his focus on what qualities we should be looking for in our players. Marvin Austin, there's a name we don't talk about much here and a wasted 2nd round pick.

              JR also seemed to have an irrational belief in a coach's ability to work miracles.
              "the talent is there on the OL, it is up to the coaches to bring it out."
              The same is true with Geno, how exactly does on coach up a guy 5 years into his career with plenty of starts and more Ints than TD?

              Geno freaking Smith, good God!
              Last edited by jomo; 04-19-2018, 12:02 PM.
              No one remembers who came in second.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by jomo View Post

                Except that McAdoo and Reese both made statements like the one below, last year in March shortly after the signing......



                Gary Myers
                NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

                Updated: Wednesday, March 29, 2017, 1:23 AM
                PHOENIX - Imagine this: Eli Manning eventually passing the baton to Geno Smith. It's a Big Blue Nightmare for Big Blue Nation.
                Ben McAdoo caused Giants fans to skip a heartbeat and run to their cardiologists Tuesday when he suggested that Smith, the newly signed ex-Jet train wreck, is in line to be the heir to the Manning throne when Eli calls it quits or the Giants ask him to leave.
                Geno Smith taking over for Manning?

                “I can’t see why not,” McAdoo said.
                "I can't see why not."

                There were a LOT of things McAdoo couldn't see in his 2 years as HC, and they all involved his offense.

                Comment


                • Geno Smith's ineptitude at QB is being exaggerated. The game tape nor the stats support the notion that he was the worst starting QB ever. His game showed development from the first to the second year. It's not out of the realm of possibility to believe that he could continue to develop.

                  Mac, studying the tape, saw what I saw and decided to get a first-hand look at Geno. At that point in the season, watching Eli for 5 more cames had little value. I would have played Geno because we are paying him, so we might as well see if he's worth keeping as a backup or has potential as a starter despite popular belief that he sucks.

                  You don't coach a team based on what the peanut gallery thinks. You put players on the field and see what happens whenever you can. 2-9 is a perfect time to give Geno some live action. It's a riskless proposition with no long-term damage possible.
                  Last edited by B&RWarrior; 04-23-2018, 10:58 AM.
                  Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                  http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by jimmie ray View Post

                    Yeah, but this poor decision making and handling of personnel seems to be the main reason why many assume Webb will never be a starter, either.
                    Exactly. The assumption on this board is Webb wasn't good enough to start an NFL game. Anyone who's eyes were open would know that wasn't the case and it had everything to do with an incompetent idiot of a head coach. Mara should have stepped in right away and demanded they start Webb for the last 3 games of a lost season. They blew it, BIG TIME!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                      Geno Smith's ineptitude at QB is being exaggerated. The game tape nor the stats support he was the worst starting QB in ever. His game showed development from first to the second year. It's not out of the realm of possibility to believe that he could continue to develop.

                      Mac studying the tape saw what I saw and decided to get a first-hand look. At that point in the season, watching Eli for 5 more cames had little value. I would have played Geno because we are paying him, so might as well see if he's worth keeping as a backup or has potential as a starter despite popular belief that he sucks.

                      You don't coach a team based on what the peanut gallery thinks. You put players on the field and see what happens whenever you can. 2-9 is a perfect time to give Geno some live action.
                      I don't recall any posters saying he was the worst QB ever. And while I agree with your premise, it's a lot easier to justify the idea that you want to see what you have for the future in a young draft pick as opposed to a 4 year veteran you signed as a backup who has had ample time to demonstrate what he is. It's very hard to sell to a fanbase or ownership that you've given up on the season. As a HC you may be able to do so if you're clearly demonstrating a plan toward building the future of the franchise, not reaching for a pet reclamation projection.

                      And, maybe Mcadoo actually believed he was some kind of QB guru from having worked in the same organization as Rodgers. So, he played that hand and found out he was wrong. It wasn't just the QB play. I don't think that decision alone cost him his job. It was likely just one more mismanaged situation in that mix.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by sheepdip View Post
                        That is my 1 regret, they should have been looking at the whole picture, knowing Eli's age and what draft pick we would have etc. Maybe they should have let him start last 2 games. Now its a big guess as to what he can do.

                        I dont know if it had something to do with the fact he wasnt ready ?? I dont know.
                        That's what happens when you let your QB run the show instead of the Coach and GM! Won't happen again!
                        Players come and go on the Free Agency Merry-Go-Round, but the N.Y. Giants will always be here!

                        Comment


                        • I concur. Webb should have played, BUT this is history. What is the purpose of continuing this thread? With the exception of Mara, all of the decision-makers are gone, Drop it!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sarcasman View Post

                            I don't recall any posters saying he was the worst QB ever. And while I agree with your premise, it's a lot easier to justify the idea that you want to see what you have for the future in a young draft pick as opposed to a 4 year veteran you signed as a backup who has had ample time to demonstrate what he is. It's very hard to sell to a fanbase or ownership that you've given up on the season. As a HC you may be able to do so if you're clearly demonstrating a plan toward building the future of the franchise, not reaching for a pet reclamation projection.

                            And, maybe Mcadoo actually believed he was some kind of QB guru from having worked in the same organization as Rodgers. So, he played that hand and found out he was wrong. It wasn't just the QB play. I don't think that decision alone cost him his job. It was likely just one more mismanaged situation in that mix.
                            Mac came in with the idea that he would teach the old dog (Eli) new tricks. That's a tough job for any person in any profession, especially if the old dog is the king of the town. It's sort of like when Holmgren left GB there was nobody to reel Favre in because he had grown to powerful in the locker room for new coaches to coach properly, or so I've heard. So, I think Mac's public criticisms of Eli and the idea that he would mold him into something better or to fit his system was a difficult goal to acheive.

                            It's also my guess that working with AR gave Mac an unreal standard of what the average QB can do on a consistent basis. If AR was the standard by which he measured all QB performance then disappointment was a forgone conclusion with Eli.

                            Mac's system worked under TC, a point another poster pointed out to me, but didn't work so well once we fired TC.

                            Mac was brought in to score points and he stopped doing that for the last 2 years and that was his biggest problem, but I think every coach would have played Geno if they thought he could make their system work. The reality is none of us know if Geno could have made it work because he never got the chance to prove he was or was not the man for the job.

                            Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                            http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post

                              Mac came in with the idea that he would teach the old dog (Eli) new tricks. That's a tough job for any person in any profession, especially if the old dog is the king of the town. It's sort of like when Holmgren left GB there was nobody to reel Favre in because he had grown to powerful in the locker room for new coaches to coach properly, or so I've heard. So, I think Mac's public criticisms of Eli and the idea that he would mold him into something better or to fit his system was a difficult goal to acheive.

                              It's also my guess that working with AR gave Mac an unreal standard of what the average QB can do on a consistent basis. If AR was the standard by which he measured all QB performance then disappointment was a forgone conclusion with Eli.

                              Mac's system worked under TC, a point another poster pointed out to me, but didn't work so well once we fired TC.

                              Mac was brought in to score points and he stopped doing that for the last 2 years and that was his biggest problem, but I think every coach would have played Geno if they thought he could make their system work. The reality is none of us know if Geno could have made it work because he never got the chance to prove he was or was not the man for the job.
                              I agree with pretty much everything you state above. And will leave the quibbling about Smith largely to the side since I can’t wrap my head around talking about him and Rodgers in the same sentence and clearly Mac’s system didn’t and likely wouldn’t work without Rodgers running it.

                              So to me that’s not actually a system. If you have a system that only works if Michael Jordan is on the team, I submit you actually don’t have a system at all.

                              I doubt there are are any other HC in the league that are so inexperienced (or clueless) that they’d believe Rodgers is the norm as opposed to the exception.

                              Comment


                              • I'm not going to hate on Geno. He did us all a favor and we should be grateful for it. Mac said he can run the offense better, will eventually replace Eli etc etc. All this other garbage... And what does Geno do? He did all of us fans a favor by playing like Geno and getting the 2 clowns fired soon after. He did not deserve death threats. He deserved a medal instead for his contribution in Oakland leading to the firing of Mac and Reese...

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