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maybe front office should have looked ahead and started Webb at end of last season

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  • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

    OK.
    I'm not defending our ex coach. I was dead set against his hiring as I said. I just object to posters calling NFL coaches idiots. Seems ridiculous.

    But that's just me I guess.
    You hold NFL coaches way to high.
    Its a demanding job, stressful job, and it takes a lot to get to the collegiate level let alone the pros.
    But let's not act like these guys are brilliant, to be able to call some of these coaches "idiots" is fair game.
    They get paid a lot of money to coach a bunch of high priced athletes. Who's job is to tackle the guy with the oblong ball in their hands.

    Ben McAdoo was an "idiot" sure he can draw up a offensive play and give it a fancy name. But the man had no business coaching at the highest level.

    Comment


    • My thoughts? I think the QB switch at the end was a disguised attempt for Benny Mac & Jerry Reece to keep their jobs.

      In Ben's mind, he never was an advocate of Eli, having tossed him under the bus on multiple occasions early on....

      Why? Ben's refusal to acknowledge his Offensive scheme was garbage, and that defenses had it all figured out, lead him to the arrogant approach of blaming the Billy's and The Joes, instead of the "X's" and the "O's". In his twisted way of thinking, he was going to drop Geno Smith, a more mobile QB, into the starting roll and picking up the win would somehow convince the FO that it wasn't his coaching that was flawed, it was Eli Manning that was flawed.

      On Reece's behalf, he refused to acknowledge the 800 lb. gorilla in the room, which was the poor offensive line. Instead, he ignored everyone that was pointing out the obvious need to improve the line, and refused to address the problem. He went along with Ben's plan to throw Eli under the bus as the key problem.

      The plan backfired when Geno didn't pull off the win in Oakland and the Fans, current players, former players, talking heads on TV, etc., all voiced their disgust at the FO for the way they handled Eli Manning.

      Of course, knowing this a potential risk, Ben offered to let Eli start, knowing full well he would refuse. This was going to be his cover.... but people saw right through that.

      The bottom line.... Benny Mac wasn't a very good coach, and Jerry Reece allowed the O-Line to decline to a point that nobody could win behind that line. Of course, all the injuries compounded the problem, but the Line is the main source of last seasons pitfall.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by rebelfan1966 View Post
        My thoughts? I think the QB switch at the end was a disguised attempt for Benny Mac & Jerry Reece to keep their jobs.

        In Ben's mind, he never was an advocate of Eli, having tossed him under the bus on multiple occasions early on....

        Why? Ben's refusal to acknowledge his Offensive scheme was garbage, and that defenses had it all figured out, lead him to the arrogant approach of blaming the Billy's and The Joes, instead of the "X's" and the "O's". In his twisted way of thinking, he was going to drop Geno Smith, a more mobile QB, into the starting roll and picking up the win would somehow convince the FO that it wasn't his coaching that was flawed, it was Eli Manning that was flawed.

        On Reece's behalf, he refused to acknowledge the 800 lb. gorilla in the room, which was the poor offensive line. Instead, he ignored everyone that was pointing out the obvious need to improve the line, and refused to address the problem. He went along with Ben's plan to throw Eli under the bus as the key problem.

        The plan backfired when Geno didn't pull off the win in Oakland and the Fans, current players, former players, talking heads on TV, etc., all voiced their disgust at the FO for the way they handled Eli Manning.

        Of course, knowing this a potential risk, Ben offered to let Eli start, knowing full well he would refuse. This was going to be his cover.... but people saw right through that.

        The bottom line.... Benny Mac wasn't a very good coach, and Jerry Reece allowed the O-Line to decline to a point that nobody could win behind that line. Of course, all the injuries compounded the problem, but the Line is the main source of last seasons pitfall.
        The plan backfired when Eli refused to play. Then the mob took over. That happened before the Oakland game.
        Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by BornBlue37 View Post

          Well he played comparable to the ELI in the same offense and some would argue slightly better. So what does that say about ELI? It was less to do with getting a look at Geno vs prepping Webb to go in as he'd had limited action.
          Some would argue anything based on their agenda. That doesnít make it valid.
          sigpic

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

            The plan backfired when Eli refused to play. Then the mob took over. That happened before the Oakland game.
            I must have missed that story. I donít recall that ever happening.

            Maybe youre confusing it with Mcadoo unexpectedly being challenged to own his decisions.
            sigpic

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rebelfan1966 View Post
              My thoughts? I think the QB switch at the end was a disguised attempt for Benny Mac & Jerry Reece to keep their jobs.

              In Ben's mind, he never was an advocate of Eli, having tossed him under the bus on multiple occasions early on....

              Why? Ben's refusal to acknowledge his Offensive scheme was garbage, and that defenses had it all figured out, lead him to the arrogant approach of blaming the Billy's and The Joes, instead of the "X's" and the "O's". In his twisted way of thinking, he was going to drop Geno Smith, a more mobile QB, into the starting roll and picking up the win would somehow convince the FO that it wasn't his coaching that was flawed, it was Eli Manning that was flawed.

              On Reece's behalf, he refused to acknowledge the 800 lb. gorilla in the room, which was the poor offensive line. Instead, he ignored everyone that was pointing out the obvious need to improve the line, and refused to address the problem. He went along with Ben's plan to throw Eli under the bus as the key problem.

              The plan backfired when Geno didn't pull off the win in Oakland and the Fans, current players, former players, talking heads on TV, etc., all voiced their disgust at the FO for the way they handled Eli Manning.

              Of course, knowing this a potential risk, Ben offered to let Eli start, knowing full well he would refuse. This was going to be his cover.... but people saw right through that.

              The bottom line.... Benny Mac wasn't a very good coach, and Jerry Reece allowed the O-Line to decline to a point that nobody could win behind that line. Of course, all the injuries compounded the problem, but the Line is the main source of last seasons pitfall.
              This.
              "Sir, I was wondering: did you happen to catch the professional football contest on television last night?"
              "No...I didn't."
              "Oh it was most exhilarating: the Giants of NY took on the Packers of Green Bay and in the end the Giants triumphed by kicking an oblong ball made of pigskin through a big H. It was a most ripping victory."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by rebelfan1966 View Post
                Ben's refusal to acknowledge his Offensive scheme was garbage, and that defenses had it all figured out, lead him to the arrogant approach of blaming the Billy's and The Joes, instead of the "X's" and the "O's". In his twisted way of thinking, he was going to drop Geno Smith, a more mobile QB, into the starting roll and picking up the win would somehow convince the FO that it wasn't his coaching that was flawed, it was Eli Manning that was flawed.
                Exactly.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                  I'm sure NFL teams are reviewing the Giants MB to recruit their next player personnel geniuses.
                  Iím more of a defensive genius myself. And by that I mean a genius, who can, at times, be defensive.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by NYG9289 View Post

                    Huh? Now that we didn't play Webb, Shurmur and DG don't know what we have going into the draft. If we take a QB and he busts, then yes it sets us back for years. We could've played Webb and seen if he is the guy for the future (which he definitely might be) and decided that we 100% don't need a QB in this draft and selected a different impact player. Very simple to understand. Don't know what's so hard for you to grasp.
                    Putting aside the nonsense of a fan claiming to know what goes on on the inside as the poster you replied to always suggests, the reality of playing regular season games with an eye towards the future at quarterback is a legitimate topic worthy of discussion.

                    When Eli was made the starter in 2004, the vision (from a fan's perspective) was that our focus was on the future and not that season. But we need to remember that Tom was just hired so he wasn't going to lose his job while coaching through the growing pains of the first pick in the draft.

                    McAdoo was struggling to prove his offense wasn't as bad as it looked and therein lied the dilemma with John Mara, who I'm sure had to be regretting his hiring. Next up was Spagnulo who seemed to focus on settling down the media and fan base after McAdoo, as opposed the future of the team. And who could blame him? At that stage you have to coach in the moment and can't worry about next year. Maybe had Steve had more time...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Roswell View Post

                      Iím more of a defensive genius myself. And by that I mean a genius, who can, at times, be defensive.
                      I'm much more "offensive" I guess.
                      Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                        I'm much more "offensive" I guess.
                        Yes. Yes you are.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post

                          Putting aside the nonsense of a fan claiming to know what goes on on the inside as the poster you replied to always suggests, the reality of playing regular season games with an eye towards the future at quarterback is a legitimate topic worthy of discussion.

                          When Eli was made the starter in 2004, the vision (from a fan's perspective) was that our focus was on the future and not that season. But we need to remember that Tom was just hired so he wasn't going to lose his job while coaching through the growing pains of the first pick in the draft.

                          McAdoo was struggling to prove his offense wasn't as bad as it looked and therein lied the dilemma with John Mara, who I'm sure had to be regretting his hiring. Next up was Spagnulo who seemed to focus on settling down the media and fan base after McAdoo, as opposed the future of the team. And who could blame him? At that stage you have to coach in the moment and can't worry about next year. Maybe had Steve had more time...
                          Great opening line. The right blend of dismissive and informative.

                          And as far as Spags having more time....well, it was time for everyone to go. And this year we will find out if that also should have included the QB.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sarcasman View Post

                            Some would argue anything based on their agenda. That doesnít make it valid.
                            I agree 100% but opinions do vary and we all do not see the same things. I actually think he played well despite the fumble. I think ppl thought or hoped for worse. I thought it was weird when Eli is in it's OL OL OL but when Geno is in he is garbage and played like trash so yes you are correct in you agenda assessment.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by BornBlue37 View Post

                              I agree 100% but opinions do vary and we all do not see the same things. I actually think he played well despite the fumble. I think ppl thought or hoped for worse. I thought it was weird when Eli is in it's OL OL OL but when Geno is in he is garbage and played like trash so yes you are correct in you agenda assessment.

                              The bottom ranked OL was what it was, regardless of who was under center.

                              I thought Smith played pretty much as expected. He certainly wasnít trash, imo.
                              His book is largely written; heís been in the league long enough. It takes a lot of talent to be a backup QB in the NFL.
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Roswell View Post

                                Yes. Yes you are.
                                Lack of self awareness is not one of my many faults.
                                Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

                                Comment

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