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  • PFO - FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE

    FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE



    The Giants' front four is their great equalizer.

    Eli Manning can go from elite to
    inept and back again, but if the front four is playing well, the Giants can win.
    The wide receivers can play hacky-sack with the football, and the running backs
    can battle injuries and mood swings, but if the front four is playing well, the
    Giants can win. The rest of the defense can be lined up at the MRI machine, but
    if the front four … you get the idea.



    Justin Tuck. Jason Pierre-Paul.
    Injured Osi Umenyiora. Interior linemen and role players Chris Canty, Dave
    Tollefson, Linval Joseph. Honorary lineman Mathias Kiwanuka. There are more than
    four of them, and they don’t always line up as a foursome, as the diagrams to
    come will show.



    But we think of them as the Giants
    front four, and not only have they accounted for 40 of the team’s 42 sacks, but
    they have compensated for injuries at other positions by dropping into coverage
    and acting as decoy defenders.



    In a season of injuries and
    uncertainty, the Giants linemen have a good chance to drag their
    not-always-cooperative teammates into the playoffs.



    The Sacking
    Wounded
    Every team must deal with injuries, but few teams in
    history have had to deal with the number of injuries the Giants suffered on
    defense this year.




    At Football Outsiders, we use a
    metric called Adjusted Games Lost (AGL) to determine how severe a team’s injury
    situation has been. AGL separates starters and key reserves from subs, so an
    injury to Umenyiora or another starter gets more weight than one to some
    seldom-used backup.



    It also accounts for weeks when a
    player is listed as “questionable” or “probable” but still takes the field, so
    when someone like Tuck shakes off a toe injury and takes the field in a limited
    role, it counts as a partial injury.



    AGL is a great argument settler,
    because it takes conversations past the “who cares about your whole linebacker
    corps, we lost our punt returner” stage.



    The Giants are on pace to finish
    the season with the third-highest defensive AGL of the last decade, behind only
    the 2008 Lions (who went 0-16) and the 2009 Bills (who went 6-10 and got their
    coach fired). Through Week 14, they lost the equivalent of 58.9 games by
    starters to injuries. That means the Giants go into the average game missing
    four defensive starters and key reserves.



    They have entered some games in
    far worse shape. Cornerback Corey Webster and safety Antrel Rolle are the only
    defenders to start all 15 games. The Giants lost top cornerback Terrell Thomas
    to an ACL injury in the middle of training camp. The mix-and-match job at
    linebacker has forced special teams ace Chase Blackburn to start a handful of
    games, and undrafted rookie Mark Herzlich climbed all the way to the starting
    middle linebacker job before suffering an injury of his own.



    The front four has been hit as
    hard as any other unit. Rookie tackle Marvin Austin was lost in training camp.
    Tuck and Umenyiora have only taken a handful of snaps together. The front four
    has been able to maintain its high standard of play because Perry Fewell has
    found creative ways to use his best players, creating confusion and applying
    pass pressure without resorting to rampant blitzing.


    Masters of
    disguise
    Let’s look at how Pierre-Paul and Tuck can create havoc
    without going near the quarterback. Figure 1 (right) shows the Giants on third
    down, near midfield, late in the first quarter against the Jets in their game
    Saturday.



    The Giants start with Jason
    Pierre-Paul (90), Dave Tollefson (71), Chris Canty (99), and Justin Tuck (91) on
    the defensive line, with Michael Boley (59) and Jacquian Williams (57) at
    linebacker. There is nothing unusual about this defensive front … yet.



    Those squiggly lines on the
    diagram mean the Giants will start shifting in an attempt to create chaos among
    the Jets pass protectors.













    Figure 2 (left) shows where the
    Giants end up after all that shifting. Boley and Williams are now defensive
    ends. Tuck is right over the center, leaning back and forth, threatening the
    A-gap. Pierre-Paul is just beside Tuck. The two pass rushers appear poised to
    execute a double A-gap blitz, sometimes called a Fire or Fire-X blitz.



    That’s a lot of pass-rushing beef
    stacked up in the middle, and when the television camera closes up on Mark
    Sanchez, he has “that look” in his eyes as he calls out some adjustments.



    Tuck and Pierre-Paul do not blitz.
    They drop into zone coverage when the ball is snapped. But Sanchez and the Jets
    cannot take a chance. They pinch their protection, meaning that left tackle
    D’Brickashaw Ferguson blocks Canty so the interior linemen are available to stop
    Tuck and Pierre-Paul.



    That leaves Boley unblocked, and
    he gets into the backfield in a hurry. Sanchez rushes his pass before tight end
    Dustin Keller can turn to look for it, and the ball bounces off his helmet.



    Officially, this play is not even
    a blitz: the Giants rushed just four defenders. Tuck and Pierre-Paul created
    pressure, not as rushers, but as decoys. A defensive call like this allows the
    Giants to rattle the opposing quarterback while still keeping seven defenders
    back in pass protection.



    Tucked into
    coverage
    You may be looking at those diagrams and thinking:
    “boy, using Tuck in zone coverage is a crazy idea.” It is so crazy it has worked
    throughout the season when Tuck has been healthy. In fact, Tuck dropped into
    coverage numerous times against the Packers, causing confusion that led to the
    rushed throws and sacks to keep the Giants in the game against the league’s
    toughest offense.













    Figure 3 (right) shows the Giants
    trailing 28-27 midway through the fourth quarter. It is first and 10, and with
    the Packers in a spread formation (the player in the backfield is actually
    receiver Randall Cobb), the Giants counter with a three-man front.



    Kiwanuka (94), nominally a
    linebacker, is at right end, while Tuck is one yard behind the line of
    scrimmage, standing up, and threatening the A-Gap. This is the middle of a long,
    late-game drive, so Pierre-Paul and Joseph are getting a breather.



    The Giants hope to create pressure
    using backup personnel and Tuck as a decoy, but it is a dangerous gambit: on
    paper, Tuck against tight end Jermichael Finley (88) is a big mismatch.



    Tuck drops into coverage at the
    snap, but his presence in the middle has the exact same effect it had against
    the Jets. The center and left guard double-team Canty, while the right guard
    stands and waits to make sure Tuck does not blitz. That wastes three blockers on
    one player, creating one-on-one matchups for Tollefson and Kiwanuka.



    Tollefson, who has been subbing
    along the Giants line since the 2007 Super Bowl season, is facing an
    inexperienced right tackle. He has no trouble turning the corner, and with
    Kiwanuka collapsing the other side, Tollefson makes an important sack.



    The most interesting thing about
    the play in Figure 3 is Finley’s response to Tuck. Finley is supposed to run a
    quick hitch in the middle of the field, but when he sees Tuck, he appears to get
    flummoxed. Finley collides with Tuck, then jostles with him as he tries to
    provide Rodgers with a target. Finley is Rodgers’ second option on this pass,
    but because the tight end does not anticipate Tuck’s presence, Rodgers has
    nowhere to throw and must eat the football.


    If Fewell had a healthy stable of linebackers, he probably would not send Tuck,
    Pierre-Paul, and others into zone coverage quite so much. But by using his best
    players as all-purpose threats, Fewell is creating the illusion that the Giants
    have more manpower than they actually posess.

    It’s a smoke-and-mirrors game, but
    Tuck’s experience, Pierre-Paul’s uncanny athleticism, and Fewell’s creativity
    make it viable. And if the Giants can create pressure when Pierre-Paul is
    resting and Tuck is dropping, imagine what can happen when everyone is doing
    what they do best.



    Healing
    up
    The Giants are not as banged up as they were a few weeks ago.
    Boley is back after missing a few games with a hamstring injury. Rookie Prince
    Amukamara has returned from a foot injury to provide some depth in the
    secondary. Tuck’s toe does not appear to be bothering him. Umenyiora even plans
    to test his injured ankle this week, though that sounds more like a tease than a
    ray of hope.



    Tom Coughlin’s leg is healing
    after a sideline collision, and you know the injury report has gotten out of
    control when the coach is on it.



    The Giants recorded three sacks
    the last time they faced the Cowboys, one of them by Pierre-Paul for a safety.
    Pierre-Paul later blocked what would have been a game-tying field goal.



    If the Giants had not beaten the
    Cowboys in that game, we would not be writing about them now. That win halted a
    four-game losing streak and made this week’s do-or-die game possible.



    It came on a night when the Giants
    secondary could not stop anyone, running back Ahmad Bradshaw was suspended for
    the first half, and Manning was scattershot until midway through the fourth
    quarter.



    The Giants beat the Cowboys
    because Pierre-Paul, Tuck, and the front four gave them a chance, and that
    chance is now a chance to reach the playoffs. For the Giants, that’s the way it
    always goes."

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

  • #2
    Re: PFO - FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE

    PFF and PFO are the two best football sites around. Nice posts RF
    My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: PFO - FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE

      [quote user="RoanokeFan"]FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE



      The Giants' front four is their great equalizer.

      Eli Manning can go from elite to
      inept and back again, but if the front four is playing well, the Giants can win.
      The wide receivers can play hacky-sack with the football, and the running backs
      can battle injuries and mood swings, but if the front four is playing well, the
      Giants can win. The rest of the defense can be lined up at the MRI machine, but
      if the front four … you get the idea.



      Justin Tuck. Jason Pierre-Paul.
      Injured Osi Umenyiora. Interior linemen and role players Chris Canty, Dave
      Tollefson, Linval Joseph. Honorary lineman Mathias Kiwanuka. There are more than
      four of them, and they don’t always line up as a foursome, as the diagrams to
      come will show.



      But we think of them as the Giants
      front four, and not only have they accounted for 40 of the team’s 42 sacks, but
      they have compensated for injuries at other positions by dropping into coverage
      and acting as decoy defenders.



      In a season of injuries and
      uncertainty, the Giants linemen have a good chance to drag their
      not-always-cooperative teammates into the playoffs.



      The Sacking
      Wounded
      Every team must deal with injuries, but few teams in
      history have had to deal with the number of injuries the Giants suffered on
      defense this year.




      At Football Outsiders, we use a
      metric called Adjusted Games Lost (AGL) to determine how severe a team’s injury
      situation has been. AGL separates starters and key reserves from subs, so an
      injury to Umenyiora or another starter gets more weight than one to some
      seldom-used backup.



      It also accounts for weeks when a
      player is listed as “questionable” or “probable” but still takes the field, so
      when someone like Tuck shakes off a toe injury and takes the field in a limited
      role, it counts as a partial injury.



      AGL is a great argument settler,
      because it takes conversations past the “who cares about your whole linebacker
      corps, we lost our punt returner” stage.



      The Giants are on pace to finish
      the season with the third-highest defensive AGL of the last decade, behind only
      the 2008 Lions (who went 0-16) and the 2009 Bills (who went 6-10 and got their
      coach fired). Through Week 14, they lost the equivalent of 58.9 games by
      starters to injuries. That means the Giants go into the average game missing
      four defensive starters and key reserves.



      They have entered some games in
      far worse shape. Cornerback Corey Webster and safety Antrel Rolle are the only
      defenders to start all 15 games. The Giants lost top cornerback Terrell Thomas
      to an ACL injury in the middle of training camp. The mix-and-match job at
      linebacker has forced special teams ace Chase Blackburn to start a handful of
      games, and undrafted rookie Mark Herzlich climbed all the way to the starting
      middle linebacker job before suffering an injury of his own.



      The front four has been hit as
      hard as any other unit. Rookie tackle Marvin Austin was lost in training camp.
      Tuck and Umenyiora have only taken a handful of snaps together. The front four
      has been able to maintain its high standard of play because Perry Fewell has
      found creative ways to use his best players, creating confusion and applying
      pass pressure without resorting to rampant blitzing.


      Masters of
      disguise
      Let’s look at how Pierre-Paul and Tuck can create havoc
      without going near the quarterback. Figure 1 (right) shows the Giants on third
      down, near midfield, late in the first quarter against the Jets in their game
      Saturday.



      The Giants start with Jason
      Pierre-Paul (90), Dave Tollefson (71), Chris Canty (99), and Justin Tuck (91) on
      the defensive line, with Michael Boley (59) and Jacquian Williams (57) at
      linebacker. There is nothing unusual about this defensive front … yet.



      Those squiggly lines on the
      diagram mean the Giants will start shifting in an attempt to create chaos among
      the Jets pass protectors.













      Figure 2 (left) shows where the
      Giants end up after all that shifting. Boley and Williams are now defensive
      ends. Tuck is right over the center, leaning back and forth, threatening the
      A-gap. Pierre-Paul is just beside Tuck. The two pass rushers appear poised to
      execute a double A-gap blitz, sometimes called a Fire or Fire-X blitz.



      That’s a lot of pass-rushing beef
      stacked up in the middle, and when the television camera closes up on Mark
      Sanchez, he has “that look” in his eyes as he calls out some adjustments.



      Tuck and Pierre-Paul do not blitz.
      They drop into zone coverage when the ball is snapped. But Sanchez and the Jets
      cannot take a chance. They pinch their protection, meaning that left tackle
      D’Brickashaw Ferguson blocks Canty so the interior linemen are available to stop
      Tuck and Pierre-Paul.



      That leaves Boley unblocked, and
      he gets into the backfield in a hurry. Sanchez rushes his pass before tight end
      Dustin Keller can turn to look for it, and the ball bounces off his helmet.



      Officially, this play is not even
      a blitz: the Giants rushed just four defenders. Tuck and Pierre-Paul created
      pressure, not as rushers, but as decoys. A defensive call like this allows the
      Giants to rattle the opposing quarterback while still keeping seven defenders
      back in pass protection.



      Tucked into
      coverage
      You may be looking at those diagrams and thinking:
      “boy, using Tuck in zone coverage is a crazy idea.” It is so crazy it has worked
      throughout the season when Tuck has been healthy. In fact, Tuck dropped into
      coverage numerous times against the Packers, causing confusion that led to the
      rushed throws and sacks to keep the Giants in the game against the league’s
      toughest offense.













      Figure 3 (right) shows the Giants
      trailing 28-27 midway through the fourth quarter. It is first and 10, and with
      the Packers in a spread formation (the player in the backfield is actually
      receiver Randall Cobb), the Giants counter with a three-man front.



      Kiwanuka (94), nominally a
      linebacker, is at right end, while Tuck is one yard behind the line of
      scrimmage, standing up, and threatening the A-Gap. This is the middle of a long,
      late-game drive, so Pierre-Paul and Joseph are getting a breather.



      The Giants hope to create pressure
      using backup personnel and Tuck as a decoy, but it is a dangerous gambit: on
      paper, Tuck against tight end Jermichael Finley (88) is a big mismatch.



      Tuck drops into coverage at the
      snap, but his presence in the middle has the exact same effect it had against
      the Jets. The center and left guard double-team Canty, while the right guard
      stands and waits to make sure Tuck does not blitz. That wastes three blockers on
      one player, creating one-on-one matchups for Tollefson and Kiwanuka.



      Tollefson, who has been subbing
      along the Giants line since the 2007 Super Bowl season, is facing an
      inexperienced right tackle. He has no trouble turning the corner, and with
      Kiwanuka collapsing the other side, Tollefson makes an important sack.



      The most interesting thing about
      the play in Figure 3 is Finley’s response to Tuck. Finley is supposed to run a
      quick hitch in the middle of the field, but when he sees Tuck, he appears to get
      flummoxed. Finley collides with Tuck, then jostles with him as he tries to
      provide Rodgers with a target. Finley is Rodgers’ second option on this pass,
      but because the tight end does not anticipate Tuck’s presence, Rodgers has
      nowhere to throw and must eat the football.


      If Fewell had a healthy stable of linebackers, he probably would not send Tuck,
      Pierre-Paul, and others into zone coverage quite so much. But by using his best
      players as all-purpose threats, Fewell is creating the illusion that the Giants
      have more manpower than they actually posess.

      It’s a smoke-and-mirrors game, but
      Tuck’s experience, Pierre-Paul’s uncanny athleticism, and Fewell’s creativity
      make it viable. And if the Giants can create pressure when Pierre-Paul is
      resting and Tuck is dropping, imagine what can happen when everyone is doing
      what they do best.



      Healing
      up
      The Giants are not as banged up as they were a few weeks ago.
      Boley is back after missing a few games with a hamstring injury. Rookie Prince
      Amukamara has returned from a foot injury to provide some depth in the
      secondary. Tuck’s toe does not appear to be bothering him. Umenyiora even plans
      to test his injured ankle this week, though that sounds more like a tease than a
      ray of hope.



      Tom Coughlin’s leg is healing
      after a sideline collision, and you know the injury report has gotten out of
      control when the coach is on it.



      The Giants recorded three sacks
      the last time they faced the Cowboys, one of them by Pierre-Paul for a safety.
      Pierre-Paul later blocked what would have been a game-tying field goal.



      If the Giants had not beaten the
      Cowboys in that game, we would not be writing about them now. That win halted a
      four-game losing streak and made this week’s do-or-die game possible.



      It came on a night when the Giants
      secondary could not stop anyone, running back Ahmad Bradshaw was suspended for
      the first half, and Manning was scattershot until midway through the fourth
      quarter.



      The Giants beat the Cowboys
      because Pierre-Paul, Tuck, and the front four gave them a chance, and that
      chance is now a chance to reach the playoffs. For the Giants, that’s the way it
      always goes."

      [/quote]
      Nice RF

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: PFO - FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE

        With all due respect, I just don't see it. JPP has been phenomenal this year, but the front 4 of the Giants has seem to under perform since the superbowl run. Maybe it's the loss of spags or the loss of Strahan, but the front four of the Giants hasn't been the threat they were in the last 3 years.


        Eli Manning has gotten exponentially better since the superbowl win, yet the Giants have one playoff loss to show for it in the last 3 years. Something is lacking, and I believe it's the front 4 underperforming-- the biggest factor that won you the superbowl in 07.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: PFO - FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE

          [quote user="gmen0820"]PFF and PFO are the two best football sites around. Nice posts RF[/quote]

          Always good to get some educated insight that we don't normally see or think about.
          “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: PFO - FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE

            [quote user="Ntegrase96"]With all do respect, I just don't see it. JPP has been phenomenal this year, but the front 4 of the Giants has seem to under perform since the superbowl run. Maybe it's the loss of spags or the loss of Strahan, but the front four of the Giants hasn't been the threat they were in the last 3 years.


            Eli Manning has gotten exponentially better since the superbowl win, yet the Giants have one playoff loss to show for it in the last 3 years. Something is lacking, and I believe it's the front 4 underperforming-- the biggest factor that won you the superbowl in 07.
            [/quote]

            The loss, both physically and mentally, of Tuck and Umenyiora has been particularly vexing. However, Tuck had a Come to Jesus meeting with TC and, say what you will, since then the old Tuck has returned.

            Now Osi is another story. mostly because of his public contract debacle. Now could it be he's also had a chat with TC (or his agent) about his legacy (code for financial future) and finally realizes the better he plays down the stretch and into the playoffs the better position he will be in to negotiate at the appropriate time? Osi's return to practice without a set back is a shock as far as I'm concerned.

            If we have a healthy Tuck and Umenyiora alongside JPP this will be a much different defensive game that a few weeks ago.

            Stay tuned.
            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: PFO - FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE

              [quote user="RoanokeFan"][quote user="Ntegrase96"]With all do respect, I just don't see it. JPP has been phenomenal this year, but the front 4 of the Giants has seem to under perform since the superbowl run. Maybe it's the loss of spags or the loss of Strahan, but the front four of the Giants hasn't been the threat they were in the last 3 years.


              Eli Manning has gotten exponentially better since the superbowl win, yet the Giants have one playoff loss to show for it in the last 3 years. Something is lacking, and I believe it's the front 4 underperforming-- the biggest factor that won you the superbowl in 07.
              [/quote]

              The loss, both physically and mentally, of Tuck and Umenyiora has been particularly vexing. However, Tuck had a Come to Jesus meeting with TC and, say what you will, since then the old Tuck has returned.

              Now Osi is another story. mostly because of his public contract debacle. Now could it be he's also had a chat with TC (or his agent) about his legacy (code for financial future) and finally realizes the better he plays down the stretch and into the playoffs the better position he will be in to negotiate at the appropriate time? Osi's return to practice without a set back is a shock as far as I'm concerned.

              If we have a healthy Tuck and Umenyiora alongside JPP this will be a much different defensive game that a few weeks ago.

              Stay tuned.
              [/quote]

              I will stay tuned for sure. Maybe they just need to be healthy and motivated to show flashes of that great 07 playoff defense, but since the superbowl season the giants front four has been running on reputation alone based mostly on a 3 game span, especially the DEs. Osi and Tuck most likely haven't been the most productive duo in that span (hell DeMarcus Ware has a greater sack total than Osi and Tuck combined since superbowl 42) but they're still revered as some of the best in the league and a huge threat? Eli Manning and the passing game is the biggest threat the Giants have, but you'll never hear opposing fans recognize that, and it seems most media outlets don't either.

              I respect the Giants defensive line, but I'm tired of hearing the typical scouting report on the Giants like it hasn't changed since 2007. The Giants are a completely different team now.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: PFO - FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE

                [quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="RoanokeFan"][quote user="Ntegrase96"]With all do respect, I just don't see it. JPP has been phenomenal this year, but the front 4 of the Giants has seem to under perform since the superbowl run. Maybe it's the loss of spags or the loss of Strahan, but the front four of the Giants hasn't been the threat they were in the last 3 years.


                Eli Manning has gotten exponentially better since the superbowl win, yet the Giants have one playoff loss to show for it in the last 3 years. Something is lacking, and I believe it's the front 4 underperforming-- the biggest factor that won you the superbowl in 07.
                [/quote]

                The loss, both physically and mentally, of Tuck and Umenyiora has been particularly vexing. However, Tuck had a Come to Jesus meeting with TC and, say what you will, since then the old Tuck has returned.

                Now Osi is another story. mostly because of his public contract debacle. Now could it be he's also had a chat with TC (or his agent) about his legacy (code for financial future) and finally realizes the better he plays down the stretch and into the playoffs the better position he will be in to negotiate at the appropriate time? Osi's return to practice without a set back is a shock as far as I'm concerned.

                If we have a healthy Tuck and Umenyiora alongside JPP this will be a much different defensive game that a few weeks ago.

                Stay tuned.
                [/quote]

                I will stay tuned for sure. Maybe they just need to be healthy and motivated to show flashes of that great 07 playoff defense, but since the superbowl season the giants front four has been running on reputation alone based mostly on a 3 game span, especially the DEs. Osi and Tuck most likely haven't been the most productive duo in that span (hell DeMarcus Ware has a greater sack total than Osi and Tuck combined since superbowl 42) but they're still revered as some of the best in the league and a huge threat? Eli Manning and the passing game is the biggest threat the Giants have, but you'll never hear opposing fans recognize that, and it seems most media outlets don't either.

                I respect the Giants defensive line, but I'm tired of hearing the typical scouting report on the Giants like it hasn't changed since 2007. The Giants are a completely different team now.
                [/quote]

                Ware is one of, if not the, premier sack guys of this generation, so I'm not surprised. I would agree that the Giants d-line is overrated at this point, but they're still one of the top units. Keep in mind that Osi missed the entire 2008 season with a torn meniscus, and he's missed half of this season. When he was healthy last year he had 11 sacks and TEN (ten!) forced fumbles. Tuck's strength was always that he was an all around end, not just a pass rusher/sack guy. Obviously, health can't be an excuse in the discussion, because in order to be good you have to be on the field, but I think you're underestimating the line a little. He had 76 tackles last year (which is phenomenal for an end) to go with 11.5 sacks. JPP's 81 tackles to go with 15.5 sacks is just silly.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: PFO - FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE

                  [quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="RoanokeFan"][quote user="Ntegrase96"]With all do respect, I just don't see it. JPP has been phenomenal this year, but the front 4 of the Giants has seem to under perform since the superbowl run. Maybe it's the loss of spags or the loss of Strahan, but the front four of the Giants hasn't been the threat they were in the last 3 years.


                  Eli Manning has gotten exponentially better since the superbowl win, yet the Giants have one playoff loss to show for it in the last 3 years. Something is lacking, and I believe it's the front 4 underperforming-- the biggest factor that won you the superbowl in 07.
                  [/quote]

                  The loss, both physically and mentally, of Tuck and Umenyiora has been particularly vexing.* However, Tuck had a Come to Jesus meeting with TC and, say what you will, since then the old Tuck has returned.*

                  Now Osi is another story. mostly because of his public contract debacle.* Now could it be he's also had a chat with TC (or his agent) about his legacy (code for financial future) and finally realizes the better he plays down the stretch and into the playoffs the better position he will be in to negotiate at the appropriate time?* Osi's return to practice without a set back is a shock as far as I'm concerned.*

                  If we have a healthy Tuck and Umenyiora alongside JPP this will be a much different defensive game that a few weeks ago.

                  Stay tuned.
                  [/quote]Eli Manning and the passing game is the biggest threat the Giants have[/quote]

                  soon JPP will be in that group if not already
                  #80

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: PFO - FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE

                    btw awesome stuff Roa!
                    #80

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: PFO - FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE



                      I love X's and O's, so thanks. But the front four have not been the same over the past few years. Well, last year they did well with all the sacks they had, but I just feel that they should be even better.




                      In fact, am I missing something here? It doesn't appear to me that we have been confusing opposing offenses too much this year at all.

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                      • #12
                        Re: PFO - FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE

                        [quote user="GiantWarfare"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="RoanokeFan"][quote user="Ntegrase96"]With all do respect, I just don't see it. JPP has been phenomenal this year, but the front 4 of the Giants has seem to under perform since the superbowl run. Maybe it's the loss of spags or the loss of Strahan, but the front four of the Giants hasn't been the threat they were in the last 3 years.


                        Eli Manning has gotten exponentially better since the superbowl win, yet the Giants have one playoff loss to show for it in the last 3 years. Something is lacking, and I believe it's the front 4 underperforming-- the biggest factor that won you the superbowl in 07.
                        [/quote]

                        The loss, both physically and mentally, of Tuck and Umenyiora has been particularly vexing. However, Tuck had a Come to Jesus meeting with TC and, say what you will, since then the old Tuck has returned.

                        Now Osi is another story. mostly because of his public contract debacle. Now could it be he's also had a chat with TC (or his agent) about his legacy (code for financial future) and finally realizes the better he plays down the stretch and into the playoffs the better position he will be in to negotiate at the appropriate time? Osi's return to practice without a set back is a shock as far as I'm concerned.

                        If we have a healthy Tuck and Umenyiora alongside JPP this will be a much different defensive game that a few weeks ago.

                        Stay tuned.
                        [/quote]Eli Manning and the passing game is the biggest threat the Giants have[/quote]

                        soon JPP will be in that group if not already[/quote]

                        He absolutely is. He's the only guy on defense that is going to go out and consistently be a game changer.

                        Fun possibility... this game could very well determine who gets DPOY.

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                        • #13
                          Re: PFO - FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE

                          [quote user="RoanokeFan"]FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE



                          But we think of them as the Giants
                          front four, and not only have they accounted for 40 of the team’s 42 sacks,

                          [/quote]

                          I love/hate that stat. Here's why. All I can think about is "what if we had an outstanding blitzing LB", well that would truly be a nightmare for the opposition.

                          But really, we have Kiwi and we have a very, very athletic Jaquain Williams.

                          JPP is already a freakin' nightmare by himself. WHY is there no scheming to get one of these LB's behind JPP and blitzing every once in a while. We'd have more than 2 sacks from the rest of the team- that's for sure.

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                          • #14
                            Re: PFO - FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE

                            [quote user="GiantWarfare"]btw awesome stuff Roa![/quote]

                            [B]
                            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                            • #15
                              Re: PFO - FRONT 4 GIVES GIANTS A CHANCE TO BEAT ANYONE

                              [quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="RoanokeFan"][quote user="Ntegrase96"]With all do respect, I just don't see it. JPP has been phenomenal this year, but the front 4 of the Giants has seem to under perform since the superbowl run. Maybe it's the loss of spags or the loss of Strahan, but the front four of the Giants hasn't been the threat they were in the last 3 years.


                              Eli Manning has gotten exponentially better since the superbowl win, yet the Giants have one playoff loss to show for it in the last 3 years. Something is lacking, and I believe it's the front 4 underperforming-- the biggest factor that won you the superbowl in 07.
                              [/quote]

                              The loss, both physically and mentally, of Tuck and Umenyiora has been particularly vexing. However, Tuck had a Come to Jesus meeting with TC and, say what you will, since then the old Tuck has returned.

                              Now Osi is another story. mostly because of his public contract debacle. Now could it be he's also had a chat with TC (or his agent) about his legacy (code for financial future) and finally realizes the better he plays down the stretch and into the playoffs the better position he will be in to negotiate at the appropriate time? Osi's return to practice without a set back is a shock as far as I'm concerned.

                              If we have a healthy Tuck and Umenyiora alongside JPP this will be a much different defensive game that a few weeks ago.

                              Stay tuned.
                              [/quote]

                              I will stay tuned for sure. Maybe they just need to be healthy and motivated to show flashes of that great 07 playoff defense, but since the superbowl season the giants front four has been running on reputation alone based mostly on a 3 game span, especially the DEs. Osi and Tuck most likely haven't been the most productive duo in that span (hell DeMarcus Ware has a greater sack total than Osi and Tuck combined since superbowl 42) but they're still revered as some of the best in the league and a huge threat? Eli Manning and the passing game is the biggest threat the Giants have, but you'll never hear opposing fans recognize that, and it seems most media outlets don't either.

                              I respect the Giants defensive line, but I'm tired of hearing the typical scouting report on the Giants like it hasn't changed since 2007. The Giants are a completely different team now.
                              [/quote]

                              I'm not a big stat guy but I think I'm right in saying we lead the NFL in sacks for a few weeks when we had at least two of the three top DE's playing. Then Tuck checked out for four or five games and even when he was playing he wasn't a factor, same for Osi. BUT, if they are healthy now and mentally fit, we could do some damage on Sunday.

                              I don't mean physical damage to Dallas players, just score wise.
                              “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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