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Eli 3-12 as Starter; 31st in Offense Any Vet QB in History Bounce Back from those Depths?

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  • Eli 3-12 as Starter; 31st in Offense Any Vet QB in History Bounce Back from those Depths?

    Is there anyone in history to rebound from this type of season on the backside of their career and go on to lead a team to offensive and team success? List the excuses for Eli that you want, I am putting this in context of history which has seen good QBs deal with much worse. If there is a QB to be as bad as Eli was last season and rebound, tell me who and when? I'll even let you cite guys a bit younger if need be. However I am not talking a QB sucking in year 1 or 2 and then blossoming. I am talking an established vet into their 30s who had as bad a season as Eli just had and then rebounded?

  • #2
    The offense was a tired 3 years old, one dimensional from the start. Add on top of that the injuries and I really doubt there is a pocket QB that could have made that a .500 or better team.

    Edit: Sorry for not addressing the question directly & basically missing the point. Look, Eli's performance was atrocious in 2013 and he rebounded significantly. I think we will see a similar turnaround by him, but as with 2014 season, that doesn't mean the team will be considered a success. Very few QB's have ever been known to consistently will a bad team to success, and Eli ain't that guy.

    Who's turned it around late in career? None in my lifetime.
    Last edited by PBTimmons; 05-14-2018, 10:08 AM.

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    • #3
      Good question. Nobody really comes to mind. Maybe Jim Plunkett?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by PBTimmons View Post
        The offense was a tired 3 years old, one dimensional from the start. Add on top of that the injuries and I really doubt there is a pocket QB that could have made that a .500 or better team.
        I am talking history here. If you want me to cite examples of QBs who dealt with worse I can probably name 100 scenarios, I'm asking you to name one...not list excuses. We were winless when we had Beckham and company. Even after the injuries we had a Round 1 TE and Round 2 WR in the mix. Josh McCown outplayed Eli for a team most mocked and predicted to go 0-16. This is not a debate Eli's excuses thread, it's a straight forward question/challenge. Find me a QB who bounced back from how bad we were with Eli?

        And last I checked Eli is not a volunteer, I think he's being paid, I think he's being paid more than anyone else on the team. So the desire to make excuses for him puzzles me. Highest salary = least excuses(not most).

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        • #5
          probably nobody.

          but i don't think i've ever seen a QB have less to work with either. outside of Engram who was a good and healthy player out there? WRs who went from practice squads to starters over night due to injuries to everybody, one of the worst OLs ever,below avereage RBs, terrible gameplan by Mcadoo.

          i doubt Rodgers or Brady or Brees could have done much more.

          not trying to make excuses, but it;s a team game. and offense was full of Jabronis who may no even be backups on most other teams
          Last edited by nygfan0816; 05-14-2018, 09:52 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by PBTimmons View Post
            The offense was a tired 3 years old, one dimensional from the start. Add on top of that the injuries and I really doubt there is a pocket QB that could have made that a .500 or better team.
            Not the question

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BigBlueTradeEli View Post
              Is there anyone in history to rebound from this type of season on the backside of their career and go on to lead a team to offensive and team success? List the excuses for Eli that you want, I am putting this in context of history which has seen good QBs deal with much worse. If there is a QB to be as bad as Eli was last season and rebound, tell me who and when? I'll even let you cite guys a bit younger if need be. However I am not talking a QB sucking in year 1 or 2 and then blossoming. I am talking an established vet into their 30s who had as bad a season as Eli just had and then rebounded?
              Well phrased question.

              I would say no.

              Injury cases may come into play, but it certainly wasn't the question you asked.
              "I hire my brains"...Horace Trumbauer

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              • #8
                Originally posted by BigBlueTradeEli View Post
                Is there anyone in history to rebound from this type of season on the backside of their career and go on to lead a team to offensive and team success? List the excuses for Eli that you want, I am putting this in context of history which has seen good QBs deal with much worse. If there is a QB to be as bad as Eli was last season and rebound, tell me who and when? I'll even let you cite guys a bit younger if need be. However I am not talking a QB sucking in year 1 or 2 and then blossoming. I am talking an established vet into their 30s who had as bad a season as Eli just had and then rebounded?
                Troy Aikman went 1-15 first year ,7-9 the second.A rebound is a rebound.

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                • #9
                  No there probably is not, but i don't know every QB record in the history of the NFL..not many people do. You phased the question so that the only answer you will get is No, unless someone can come up with the one time. It is a question that is kinda childish to ask, as it is set out to prove what you want to hear and not pose an debate.

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                  • #10
                    Brett Favre went 4-12 with the Packers in 2005, throwing almost 30 picks with the 18th ranked offense. Got Mike Sherman fired.

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                    • #11
                      Eli had a bad season. How much was on him and how much was a product of the whole offensive mess?
                      Of course this has been a hotly debated topic filled with real facts, bull****, blind homerism, blind hatred, reality, and fantasy.

                      I hold Eli accountable just as he holds himself accountable. He knows he was lacking above and beyond the other negatives on last year's team.

                      To be honest I am not sure he can still get it done even iof the all the pieces were in place. I would have to see how he reacts in the pocket going forward. Because the last two seasons he has been reacting to zero pressure at times. Like the clock in his head says "thow it ot get killed". While I can see how this can happen there is no excuse for it. Either a QB has pocket awareness or he doesnt. Eli used have it. He doesn't any more.
                      He has been hit that much to have a "shell shocked" syndrome.


                      "it won't matter who we pick at #2 because whoever it is we need him..."

                      ​​​​​​ -Jesse James

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by G1.. View Post

                        Troy Aikman went 1-15 first year ,7-9 the second.A rebound is a rebound.
                        So you are comparing a 21 year old Troy Aikman improving to a 37 year old Eli Manning improving? Troy Aikman was retired with 3 SB rings 3 years younger than Eli is now.

                        I outlined your example NOT being an example in the OP. Young QBs are supposed to improve. Old QBs are supposed to decline. Hence the topic.

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                        • #13
                          Brett Favre had some bad seasons in 05 and 06. 29 ints in 05.

                          4-12 in 05, 8-8 in 06 but still an ugly yr statistically

                          nfc title game in 07. again in 09

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                          • #14
                            Kurt Warner with the Giants came back with Arizona

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                            • #15
                              I have been an Eli fan since the beginning and stats wise (completion %) was basically the same with TDs and yards down. Int's pretty much remained the same. Eli has been an average 1 interception a year guy since he has been hear. That doesn't mean he throws one a game, as we all know he tends to group them up together. As such I don't see much of a drop off in production. Last year the team dropped 41 balls. There was a stat that 72% of his throws were catchable. I cant remember where that was but I remember reading about that in an article. Had just half of those dropped balls been caught Eli's TD and yardage numbers would be much more respectable as would his 3rd down conversion rate.

                              Lets look at all the factors that led to the dumpster fire that was last year. I can honestly say that apart from his deep ball accuracy (which might have more to do with system and bad o'line (might), I don't see a difference in talent.
                              Horrible offensive scheme very predictable.
                              Well below average offensive line (I am being generous).
                              No credible run threat.
                              Injuries OBJ really never recovered from that Browns hit in preseason, and as such the three games he played he was not 100%.

                              Now as I say this, I can honestly say that I am a huge Eli fan, but I am also a realist and understand that Eli was never elite in the way many here want him to be. Even his best season 2011 he averaged 1 interception a game and was pretty pedestrian outside of those forth quarter miracles. He did have a ton of yards, but that was because of Vic Cruz and the last great o'line for the Giants.

                              I am optimistic that Eli will play much better due to the supporting cast and Shurmur's work with lesser QBs. QB's like Eli tend to keep there bodies in much better shape than other positions and can play into there early 40's (see Brady and Brees)

                              My prediction would be 30 Tds 15Ints and 3500-3900 yards at 62-63% completion. I expect to see the best run game since 2008 and as such passing yards will be down.

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