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Anyone who thinks eli will not flourish in in a west coast offense....

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  • Originally posted by Die-Hard View Post
    Obviously that QB is not yet on the roster, which has been my point all along. There has never been a threat behind him, and he has never had any real competition for his job, despite the many mistakes and poor play over the years. I, for one, would like to see how he reacts to having such a thing in place, and whether it would force him to play much smarter and take better care of the football.

    I wasn't being serious with the ban threat. Just a joke.
    I honestly think some of you guys way overrate the idea that having a back up that could be a threat helps elevate QB play. That may work at other positions to varying degrees, but I struggle to think of many if any times that it's really helped a QB play better.

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    • Originally posted by brad View Post
      While I think Die-Hard was a little over the top, your response seems to suggest that no QB current or future could equal Eli. Peyton Manning was pushed out for Luck, Montana pushed out for Young, Simms for Hostetler.... at some point every QB is pushed out for the next, hopefully great, QB.... just like every other position in any sport. That isn't to say that the replacement for Eli is on the roster, but a good team is always looking to improve, at every position. I wouldn't say it is a priority, but if someone that is better than Eli landed in their laps, then I would be all for letting him play.
      You don't get a chance to draft a guy like Luck too often. If Peyton wasn't out all of the year the Colts wouldn't have been in a position to draft him. I would think if you have a very good QB you won't be able to draft the top guys. At this point how many starters would be able to push Eli maybe 8 to 10?
      Engage brain before speaking.

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      • I realize that it is a criminal act to reference those SB wins, but no boss/owner/GM anywhere in the world would ever, for 1 second look only at the negative side of things.

        We have a term for it in my office: It's called having an upside.

        And no responsible boss/owner/GM was going to spend large amounts of capital trying to find out if there is a way to improve upon a a success rate that is rarely achieved (despite the fact that we would all like them in the playoffs more) by focusing that capital on a player you hope never sees the field.

        Some us may have wanted to see it, but it was not a sound call to make. And if you want to argue it would have been, just imagine hearing the tapping of a SB ring on a table while you are typing, or imagine who you couldn't have afforded or signed in 2011 if you spent that money elsewhere on a guy you hoped rode the pine.

        But things with the cap have changed, and rookies no longer bleed a team dry. It is much more economically feasible to get in a young player to push a vet. Even one with 2 SB MVP's.

        The responsibility has almost flipped: it would be wrong to not work in a young guy to push Eli.
        Add in the cap realities for Eli, and it may actually be irresponsible not to. Ask the other Manning about that.

        I am thankful that we have Eli, all Giants fan's should be.
        I am going to be even more happy if we have a Luck or Rodgers waiting in the wings. No Giants fan should have a problem with that.

        I don't know if it's time; I know none of you do either. The reality is that the FO has to look hard at it and make plans.

        Feels like a very "Lion King" kind of post
        Every single day I log onto this message board thinking i've seen it all, every single day I am wrong...NYGiants2120

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        • Originally posted by Drez View Post
          I honestly think some of you guys way overrate the idea that having a back up that could be a threat helps elevate QB play. That may work at other positions to varying degrees, but I struggle to think of many if any times that it's really helped a QB play better.

          I simply said that I'd like to see how Eli would react to that kind of situation.

          If your employer hired someone else in your department, and for the same job that you currently hold, and told both of you that one of you would lose your position in 6 months, would that motivate you to work harder? A very different scenario, of course, and I'm not comparing such a job to that of an NFL QB in any way, shape, or form, but for arguments' sake, I think the situations could still mirror each other on a very basic level.

          Whether or not it has ever worked with other teams/QB's cant really be proven one way or another, since none of us have been part of an NFL team, and we aren't the least bit qualified to make that judgement with any degree of accuracy.
          The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd - Bertrand Russell

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          • Delicreep my cousin tried to tell his boss he was sales leader in 2012 and 2009. Didnt work out so well in the car business.

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            • Originally posted by Harooni View Post
              Delicreep my cousin tried to tell his boss he was sales leader in 2012 and 2009. Didnt work out so well in the car business.
              I have no idea what you are trying to say.
              Every single day I log onto this message board thinking i've seen it all, every single day I am wrong...NYGiants2120

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              • Originally posted by Delicreep View Post
                I have no idea what you are trying to say.
                exactly

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                • Originally posted by Harooni View Post
                  exactly
                  Any chance you could clarify it?
                  Every single day I log onto this message board thinking i've seen it all, every single day I am wrong...NYGiants2120

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                  • Originally posted by Delicreep View Post
                    Any chance you could clarify it?
                    i guess the point is , a business will only look at the past for so long before you need to produce something. had he come 2nd or 3rd in sales over the last few years he would have kept his job ,but his boss's weren't going to give him some lifetime pass because of his past achievements.


                    So as fans and as an Org. you are pleased with the SB wins but by the same token you miss the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years you need to produce something, doesnt have to be more sb wins but be competitive.

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                    • Originally posted by Harooni View Post
                      i guess the point is , a business will only look at the past for so long before you need to produce something. had he come 2nd or 3rd in sales over the last few years he would have kept his job ,but his boss's weren't going to give him some lifetime pass because of his past achievements.


                      So as fans and as an Org. you are pleased with the SB wins but by the same token you miss the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years you need to produce something, doesnt have to be more sb wins but be competitive.
                      Sorry he lost his job...tough economy.

                      Really...you are more or less agreeing with me. There is no real unavoidable financial pain for bringing new guys and letting your cousin go. Same is true for Eli now...bring 'em in and take a chance. I said that very clearly.

                      That was not true with Eli 3 years ago, and when sales where great, probably wasn't true for your cousin either.

                      I have yet to see anyone say Eli has a "lifetime pass". Factoring an upside is not the same as lifetime pass.
                      Every single day I log onto this message board thinking i've seen it all, every single day I am wrong...NYGiants2120

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                      • ESPN Around The Horn Eli

                        http://youtu.be/qBWoYbTHwpo?t=12m51s

                        Opinions I see in this thread, I heard in this debate.

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                        • One of the things that blows my mind is that if you asked fans of every team, "if you could have same season as any other team in the league over the last 10 years", I would think the answer would be the Giants more often than not.
                          Every single day I log onto this message board thinking i've seen it all, every single day I am wrong...NYGiants2120

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                          • Originally posted by Delicreep View Post
                            Sorry he lost his job...tough economy.

                            Really...you are more or less agreeing with me. There is no real unavoidable financial pain for bringing new guys and letting your cousin go. Same is true for Eli now...bring 'em in and take a chance. I said that very clearly.

                            That was not true with Eli 3 years ago, and when sales where great, probably wasn't true for your cousin either.

                            I have yet to see anyone say Eli has a "lifetime pass". Factoring an upside is not the same as lifetime pass.
                            i was talking about coughlin, lol

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                            • Originally posted by speedman View Post
                              You don't get a chance to draft a guy like Luck too often. If Peyton wasn't out all of the year the Colts wouldn't have been in a position to draft him. I would think if you have a very good QB you won't be able to draft the top guys. At this point how many starters would be able to push Eli maybe 8 to 10?
                              I agree, you don't get a chance to draft Luck very often, but that doesn't address Young pushing out Montana or Hostetler pushing out Simms. I am pretty sure no one thought those guys would push their predecessor, and have success as a starter. I remember quite clearly believing that Montana would forever remain the greatest QB that ever lived. Now I watch Brady, Peyton and Brees and realize, I may have been wrong.

                              How many starters that could push Eli is irrelevant, they aren't going to go out and sign any of them.

                              I am not suggesting they should go out and try to find that next guy, just yet, I am questioning your notion that it isn't possible. At some point in every athletes career, they start to decline. Some would suggest that has already started with Eli, I don't agree with that, but when it does happen they need to have a plan in place or face some pretty rough seasons scrambling after the fact.

                              I understand your appreciation for Eli, but trust me, there will be other QBs that play for the Giants, and it is very likely they will eventually find one just as good or better. When that day comes, you will hear people talking about how this new guy is irreplaceable, and you will remember that you once thought the same thing about Eli, reveling in the knowledge that they too will one day learn that no one is irreplaceable.
                              My goal had been to win a championship, work toward the Hall of Fame, have my jersey retired by the team and I`d go in as a lifelong New York Giant, but I`m now resigned to the fact that this won`t happen. -- Michael Strahan, just when you think you're down...

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                              • Originally posted by NYGhtmare View Post
                                ESPN Around The Horn Eli

                                http://youtu.be/qBWoYbTHwpo?t=12m51s

                                Opinions I see in this thread, I heard in this debate.
                                Awesome clip. Best quote: "They say the WRs aren't fighting hard enough for the ball, well he sure is throwing balls into a whole lot of fights!"
                                Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                                http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

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