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Anyone who thinks eli will not flourish in in a west coast offense....

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  • #16
    I just listened to that clip. Is this some sort of bad joke?

    First few comments:

    1) He knows when to add zip and when not to

    2) He will take what the defense gives him without forcing plays

    3) He's great at improvising, won't force plays will tuck the ball and run

    This could be a list of things he did the worst in 2013 or didn't do at all.
    Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Die-Hard View Post
      Regarding your last point, even if he falters, Eli will still be the guy. He has been faltering for years, and has never had to look over his shoulder
      Agree on that he has never had to look back before...and I think that may have been partially due to the fact that he had a huge cushion around him, KG, the playbook, TC..but that has been dramatically changed now. KG is gone and we assume most of his playbook. TC has endorsed McAdoo and his "uptempo" plan, and has also got behind it to say, if players are scrambling to get it , then GOOD..let 'em ..puts a fire under their arses..and I;m convinced that meant to include Manning. I think we are going to see more eye brow raising choices made in 2014, And I don't think Manning is going to get coddled and a free pass ( no pun) anymore. He has to get it, and if looks like he isn't and somebody else is, and making it work...he should warm the pine. I think this pre-season is going to be a very tell-all one..
      Last edited by Razur; 01-18-2014, 10:48 AM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
        I just listened to that clip. Is this some sort of bad joke?

        First few comments:

        1) He knows when to add zip and when not to

        2) He will take what the defense gives him without forcing plays

        3) He's great at improvising, won't force plays will tuck the ball and run

        This could be a list of things he did the worst in 2013 or didn't do at all.
        Must be an Eli from a parallel universe, our Eli has none of those qualities. His slow release and short pass inaccuracy really make me wonder how well he'll do.

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        • #19
          I'm not going to presume anyone is going to flourish at anything after the way this past season played out. No style/scheme is going to work until we fix the line.

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          • #20
            I think Eli will play better in a faster paced offense, as long as the playcalling is designed to utilize his strengths and isn't trying to turn him into somebody he's not. Eli's not a mobile QB like Rodgers or Romo, so I don't see him running with the ball more. But a lot of his success or failure going forward will depend on how Eli responds to being pushed out of his comfort zone.
            One of these teams is not like the others

            sigpic

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            • #21
              Eli is deadly when he can scan the field. How quickly people forget. As far as screens and dump offs to RB, he has done that plenty of times in his career. It's laughable to suggest he's bad at those.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Die-Hard View Post
                Regarding your last point, even if he falters, Eli will still be the guy. He has been faltering for years, and has never had to look over his shoulder
                That is so true. If only he hadn't gone out and got those 2 SB MVP's we could probably be rid of him already!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by nygfanmaybe View Post
                  That is so true. If only he hadn't gone out and got those 2 SB MVP's we could probably be rid of him already!
                  I knew that old beaten down war-horse of an excuse would be trotted out eventually. At what point in my response did you see me suggest that Eli Manning should have been gotten rid of? I merely said that he has never had anyone behind him to instill some fear of losing his job due to poor play. That is not an opinion, but a fact. He broke a franchise record for interceptions this season, once again led the entire NFL in that category, and the entire planet knew that he was never going to have to answer for it with his job. The Super Bowl MVP awards are completely meaningless in 2014, so please stop falling back on them to excuse everything else.
                  The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd - Bertrand Russell

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Die-Hard View Post
                    I knew that old beaten down war-horse of an excuse would be trotted out eventually. At what point in my response did you see me suggest that Eli Manning should have been gotten rid of? I merely said that he has never had anyone behind him to instill some fear of losing his job due to poor play. That is not an opinion, but a fact. He broke a franchise record for interceptions this season, once again led the entire NFL in that category, and the entire planet knew that he was never going to have to answer for it with his job. The Super Bowl MVP awards are completely meaningless in 2014, so please stop falling back on them to excuse everything else.
                    How many teams have QB's who have won 2 SB 's? It is amazing that you don't see how ridiculous your posts sound considering the past success.
                    Last edited by GCGiant; 01-18-2014, 12:12 PM.

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                    • #25
                      I really think everyone is over thinking things. Personally I think he'll do fine so long the line is fixed. At the end of the day if Eli has a clean pocket and ample time to scan the field it doesn't matter what system is used, so yes he can thrive in a west coast system too.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by nygfanmaybe View Post
                        How many teams have QB's who have won 2 SB 's? It is amazing that you don't see how ridiculous your posts sound considering the past success.

                        The key word being "past".

                        I'm far more concerned with the future of the team, not what they've already accomplished. If that is ridiculous, then call me ridiculous, but its better than living on past glories and hinging an argument on those glories to excuse present play.
                        The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd - Bertrand Russell

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by nygfanmaybe View Post
                          How many teams have QB's who have won 2 SB 's? It is amazing that you don't see how ridiculous your posts sound considering the past success.
                          Phil Simms won a SB, does that make him better than Dan Marino? Past performance is wonderful for his legacy, but it isn't an excuse for poor play now or an indication of great performance next year.

                          That being said, I don't believe the offensive problems were ALL on Eli, the O-line and a system that put more on the O-line than most was clearly an issue. However, I am first and foremost a Giants fan, not a specific player. I believe he is capable of bouncing back and doing well in the new system, but if he isn't I am not apposed to finding the next QB that is. Loyalty to those that help you achieve that is a wonderful thing, but can only go so far. In the end it is about winning football games, the names on the jerseys are irrelevant.
                          My goal had been to win a championship, work toward the Hall of Fame, have my jersey retired by the team and I`d go in as a lifelong New York Giant, but I`m now resigned to the fact that this won`t happen. -- Michael Strahan, just when you think you're down...

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by nygfanmaybe View Post
                            That is so true. If only he hadn't gone out and got those 2 SB MVP's we could probably be rid of him already!
                            The Giants organization, has plans to get to another SB, as all the NFL teams aspire to. Hate to break it to you, but Manning isn't the only QB that can get us there, and possibly win SB MVP's. His record speaks for itself. In SB's to which the TEAM gets credit for being in, he has played at a level that showed moments of brilliance, and was recognized and awarded as such. In regular season, he has shown even more moments of terrible performances. His record is what is. If Manning can adjust to this new offense, the new OC and perform like the guy in the SB's, he may yet achieve even another MVP. But as of late, that guy hasn't been on the field. And although its nice to reminisce about the "good old days", that's pretty much left for Eli, coaches the owners, and their families to really relish, as fans, who live in EACH season, we are not buying tickets to games to watch tape of days gone by. Eli earned his award, and he has earned the criticism he now faces.

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                            • #29
                              A few thoughts (my feelings about Eli put aside).

                              Most fans have been crying for years that Eli is best in the 2 minute or hurry up offense and now we think he'll stink in an up-tempo offense?

                              I can't see the Giants benching any player they are paying 20 million dollars. Just can't see it.

                              Sooner or later he will be done. Simms career ended before it should have.

                              And on THAT note, I have a feeling when Eli is done we will miss him as much as Phil, unless we are very fortunate.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Razur View Post
                                The Giants organization, has plans to get to another SB, as all the NFL teams aspire to. Hate to break it to you, but Manning isn't the only QB that can get us there, and possibly win SB MVP's. His record speaks for itself. In SB's to which the TEAM gets credit for being in, he has played at a level that showed moments of brilliance, and was recognized and awarded as such. In regular season, he has shown even more moments of terrible performances. His record is what is. If Manning can adjust to this new offense, the new OC and perform like the guy in the SB's, he may yet achieve even another MVP. But as of late, that guy hasn't been on the field. And although its nice to reminisce about the "good old days", that's pretty much left for Eli, coaches the owners, and their families to really relish, as fans, who live in EACH season, we are not buying tickets to games to watch tape of days gone by. Eli earned his award, and he has earned the criticism he now faces.
                                Nice post.

                                I would be tempted to add that Eli has achieved enough to warrant the faith and the opportunity to flourish again*. But no one has earned a blank check in that regard, and the organization must consider and plan for an Eli-less future.






                                *if anyone can tell me what they base future performance on if it is not going to be past performance, I would appreciate that.
                                So would every front office, stock broker, investor and pretty much everyone on the planet who makes these types of decisions.
                                Every single day I log onto this message board thinking i've seen it all, every single day I am wrong...NYGiants2120

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