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nothing is impossible... David Wilson

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  • Originally posted by gmen46 View Post
    Sorry, b&r, you're contradicting yourself to make 2 different arguments into one.

    According to you, Bush was not used primarily as a between the tackles RB while with the Saints (5 years) due to his "inability" to do so. Not because of any coaching decisions to best use his talents. Then, all of a sudden, in his 6th season and on a different team (without the passing prowess of the Saints, coincidentally, so the imperative to run was paramount), Bush became a between the tackles running threat. The light switched on, as it were. In his 6th season.

    On the other hand, Wilson wasn't used primarily as a between the tackles RB because of some COACHES conspiracy to not give him a "chance to progress" as you say--not because of his "inability"-- so he has not done much for us his first 2 years.

    Coughlin did not bench him this past year, btw. He played the first 5 games (starting 4) before injuring his neck in game 5.

    Look, if you want to claim our coaches did not use Wilson's talents to their potential--say, like Saints did with Bush his first couple years--then OK. Lord knows, nearly everyone else on this board makes that claim. Although it's difficult to make that claim legitimately since Wilson's few screen passes never worked, and he wasn't thrown to down field enough to judge him.

    But to argue that Bush was incapable of running between tackles for 5 years, that his utilization by the Saints was not strictly a coaching decision, just as his new found running prowess was likely a coaching necessity by Miami, but then to claim Wilson's failure to look like a 1st rd RB talent is ONLY due to our coaching decisions, is not a fair analysis.
    My argument is very consistent. Bush was not proficient at running between the tackles in his first 2 years. I never said anything about "all of the sudden", that is your claim. I thought it goes without saying it is a skill that he worked on. Most rational football fans would also assume this. The clear point being made is that he was a high first round draft pick that developed after his first 2 years.

    The Saints used Bush to his full potential his first few years. He was not effective between the tackles in his first couple of years. He got better as his career moved along. I'm sure he had to be much improved his last year with the NO.

    I actually think Wilson knows how to run between the tackles. Be clear, in no way am I saying Wilson is equal to or better than Bush as a RB. My qualm with the coaches is that they sat the guy for almost the entire rookie year based off of a bad game, and thus ******ed his development as a player. What rookie doesn't have a bad game? It may say 2 years on his profile, but he's got the game experience of a rookie at the halfway point of his rookie year.

    Wilson will make plays if given the opportunity. 115 carries in 2 years, mostly behind a porous line is not much of an opportunity. He also had that stenosis which cut his 2nd year short. That alone should give him at least another year to put off calling him a bust.

    Remember what B&R Warrior told you. Wilson will roll in 2014. Book it!
    Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

    Comment


    • Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
      wilsons really only had 1 real year. IR'd his 2nd. and in his rookie campaign, he was benched week 1 and didnt get carries, a bulk of them, until like week 9 or something against N.O...

      Wilson, imo, has displayed a skill set worthy of being selected rd 1. not consistently. but, he has displayed for me at least, a quality skill set.

      again i cant put enough emphasis on how poorly i believe he was misused his rookie yr and 2nd yr. i partly blame the reality we see today re: Wilson on KG and to a large extent TC...
      I know you want to blame KG....and you may be right. But you have to blame TC just as much or more. He runs the football team.
      I agree that he hasn't had enough chances to prove himself. But I also have to say that I haven't seen the qualities in him so far that I think a good back needs.
      Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

      Comment


      • The opinions of Wilson are affected by the fact he was drafted in the first round. If he was a 5th round pick, people would say he sucks.

        Wilson can't pass block (he looks so bad even if he improves it won't be good enough), and he can't secure the ball.

        TC worked with him the last two years on ball security. Watch the games he played last year. The location he carries the ball is horrendous. You can't blame the awful OL for that.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by moosedrool View Post
          The opinions of Wilson are affected by the fact he was drafted in the first round. If he was a 5th round pick, people would say he sucks.

          Wilson can't pass block (he looks so bad even if he improves it won't be good enough), and he can't secure the ball.

          TC worked with him the last two years on ball security. Watch the games he played last year. The location he carries the ball is horrendous. You can't blame the awful OL for that.
          I really wish that he's shown more than he has.

          I was his biggest advocate going into the draft.
          Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

          Comment


          • He has three career fumbles ... three... omg wow what a turnover machine .. Andre brown had three in half a season

            Comment


            • Originally posted by PaulAnthony View Post
              He has three career fumbles ... three... omg wow what a turnover machine .. Andre brown had three in half a season
              3 fumbles in 115 carries is an atrocious rate.

              Stats aside, look at his ball location when he carries the ball. It is terrible, and that's after working with TC for two years.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by moosedrool View Post
                3 fumbles in 115 carries is an atrocious rate.

                Stats aside, look at his ball location when he carries the ball. It is terrible, and that's after working with TC for two years.
                I don't tink the real problem with Wilson is fumbles.
                I think its that he's just not a very good RB.
                Just a lot of straight line speed.
                Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                  I don't tink the real problem with Wilson is fumbles.
                  I think its that he's just not a very good RB.
                  Just a lot of straight line speed.
                  I don't think that's it. I think everyone is just salty he fumbled against Dallas . In my opinion Wilson's career doesnt offer a big enough sample size to evaluate his talent. 115 carries, 45 behind a terrible o-line .

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by moosedrool View Post
                    3 fumbles in 115 carries is an atrocious rate.

                    Stats aside, look at his ball location when he carries the ball. It is terrible, and that's after working with TC for two years.
                    What was Tiki's fumble rate in his second year of his career? If Wilson is atrocious, then we should have taken Tiki out back and shot him.
                    Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                      wilsons really only had 1 real year. IR'd his 2nd. and in his rookie campaign, he was benched week 1 and didnt get carries, a bulk of them, until like week 9 or something against N.O...

                      Wilson, imo, has displayed a skill set worthy of being selected rd 1. not consistently. but, he has displayed for me at least, a quality skill set.

                      again i cant put enough emphasis on how poorly i believe he was misused his rookie yr and 2nd yr. i partly blame the reality we see today re: Wilson on KG and to a large extent TC...
                      And yet the same 2 coaches (and same RB coach) seemed to have no problem coaching 7th rd pick Bradshaw--arguably an RB with less natural talent and certainly less speed--not to mention 4th rd pick lumbering Jacobs. Hmmm.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by moosedrool View Post
                        3 fumbles in 115 carries is an atrocious rate.

                        Stats aside, look at his ball location when he carries the ball. It is terrible, and that's after working with TC for two years.
                        1 year really, and it took and Bradshaw a little while to correct that as well.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                          What was Tiki's fumble rate in his second year of his career? If Wilson is atrocious, then we should have taken Tiki out back and shot him.
                          LOL. Tiki only played 3 years for TC, and he stopped fumbling after his first year with TC.

                          Tiki changed the location of where he carried the ball. Wilson has not.

                          Even if he wasn't a fumbler, the rest of Wilson's game is weak too.
                          Last edited by moosedrool; 03-21-2014, 10:41 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by moosedrool View Post
                            LOL. Tiki only played 3 years for TC, and he stopped fumbling after his first year with TC.

                            Tiki changed the location of where he carried the ball. Wilson has not.

                            Even if he wasn't a fumbler, the rest of Wilson's game is weak too.
                            OK Tiki was a vet at the time wish years in the league, gonna be easier for him to make that adjustment, Wilson is a kid and aftter missing almost the whole season last year is still gonna basically be a 2nd year player.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                              My argument is very consistent. Bush was not proficient at running between the tackles in his first 2 years. I never said anything about "all of the sudden", that is your claim. I thought it goes without saying it is a skill that he worked on. Most rational football fans would also assume this. The clear point being made is that he was a high first round draft pick that developed after his first 2 years.

                              The Saints used Bush to his full potential his first few years. He was not effective between the tackles in his first couple of years. He got better as his career moved along. I'm sure he had to be much improved his last year with the NO.

                              I actually think Wilson knows how to run between the tackles. Be clear, in no way am I saying Wilson is equal to or better than Bush as a RB. My qualm with the coaches is that they sat the guy for almost the entire rookie year based off of a bad game, and thus ******ed his development as a player. What rookie doesn't have a bad game? It may say 2 years on his profile, but he's got the game experience of a rookie at the halfway point of his rookie year.

                              Wilson will make plays if given the opportunity. 115 carries in 2 years, mostly behind a porous line is not much of an opportunity. He also had that stenosis which cut his 2nd year short. That alone should give him at least another year to put off calling him a bust.

                              Remember what B&R Warrior told you. Wilson will roll in 2014. Book it!
                              Bush was not only not effective between the tackles his first 2 years with Saints, his production in both rushing and receiving DECREASED each of the 4 years following his rookie season. He was also "injured" a lot while a Saint, his rookie season being the only year he played 16 games, including his 8 game 5th and final year with them. In the 3 years since, he missed 1 game in 2 years with Miami and 2 games last yr.

                              But I digress. If Wilson "rolls", as you put it, if he in fact lives up to the expectations of him provoked by his few--so far--electric runs, scores tds, and helps win games, then I will be ecstatic and eat **** (metaphorically).

                              But for a 1st rd pick he has been a brutal disappointment. There's no denying that, I don't care how many CJ Spillers, Noshow Morenos you through out there. And the Giants have no clue as to whether he'll even play again, let alone play this year, which is why they are moving in FA as if there is no Wilson to count on. Because at this moment, they in fact CANNOT count on him.
                              Last edited by gmen46; 03-21-2014, 10:52 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by PaulAnthony View Post
                                I don't think that's it. I think everyone is just salty he fumbled against Dallas . In my opinion Wilson's career doesnt offer a big enough sample size to evaluate his talent. 115 carries, 45 behind a terrible o-line .
                                He fumbled against Dallas?
                                No one remembers who came in second.

                                Comment

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