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HBO and the NFL have narrowed down the HARD KNOCKS teams to Bears, Giants, Steelers

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  • Originally posted by gmen46 View Post
    And that's the core of the debate on this thread. It should not be mandatory.

    Sorry, but I don't agree with your premise of hypocrisy. I'm an NFL fan. I'm a Giants fan. For 45 years. Not watching or wanting to watch Hard Knocks--with or without my team in it--does not make me (or anyone else sharing that point of view) a "one dimensional hypocrite".

    Not being a creepy fanboy who wants to watch the players in the showers and snapping towels in the locker room does not make me a one dimensional hypocrite.

    I'm a fan of the game itself. I like watching (and rooting for) players on my team to make plays. Beyond what the team itself is willing to share with the public, I have no desire to be the fly on the wall that overhears players and coaches in meetings and on the practice field or a player's problems off the field or at home.

    Just like the players enjoy having fans but don't really want to be friends with specific fans.

    There's a line between being a fan and being a voyeur or a stalker.

    Anyone who wants to watch that hyped circus called Hard Knocks, fine. Free country and all that.

    I just believe that a team that does not want to participate and subject itself to that narcissistic exercise should not be forced to. I also believe it's curious and telling that so few teams have wanted to do the show that collectively many of those same teams voted to force themselves to do it.

    I think, however, it's presumptuous to label any Giants fan who has absolutely no interest in watching the show (even with the Giants) as being a one dimensional hypocrite. If anything IS hypocritical, it is to not like the show and/or not want the Giants to perform in it, but then watch the show because the Giants are in it.
    Step down of your high horse sir. We are Giants FANS, not employees, or owners. We desire as much content and coverage of our beloved team as we can get. I think all of us realize that it can be a distraction and hope that the show ends up somewhere else. But if the Giants are forced to do the show, there is nothing hypocritical about us meesly little fans tuning in and watching a 1 hour show dedicated to our favorite team, shown in a light that we havent seen before.

    Again if you don't have HBO, i completely understand, but I find it very hard to believe that any fan would be sitting on his couch this summer while TV is full of re-runs and not flip over to HBO to check out your favorite team.
    #80

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    • Originally posted by nhpgiantsfan View Post
      Step down of your high horse sir. We are Giants FANS, not employees, or owners. We desire as much content and coverage of our beloved team as we can get. I think all of us realize that it can be a distraction and hope that the show ends up somewhere else. But if the Giants are forced to do the show, there is nothing hypocritical about us meesly little fans tuning in and watching a 1 hour show dedicated to our favorite team, shown in a light that we havent seen before.

      Again if you don't have HBO, i completely understand, but I find it very hard to believe that any fan would be sitting on his couch this summer while TV is full of re-runs and not flip over to HBO to check out your favorite team.
      You're right. We are fans, not employees (players, coaches). But if players and coaches' maximum efforts to prepare for their best seasonal performances possible are interfered with--for absolutely no practical purpose--then as a fan of the team, that affects me. And not in a good way, in my view. That's me, and that's why I'm so adamant against the Giants being FORCED to do the show if that turns out to occur. It's an interesting coincidence to me that Mara happens to feel the same way about appearing on the show and has said so more than once publicly.

      You and others don't agree with that viewpoint, to the extent of refusing to watch if the Giants are forced to appear on the show. Fine.

      I have yet to hear a single valid explanation from anyone--here or elsewhere--as to how FORCING a team to participate in this show dedicated to narcissism and voyeurism in any way HELPS a team, or is good for a team.

      As to hypocrisy, my response was to a sentiment posted that ANY Giants fan who did not want to--or who did not admit to wanting to-- watch Hard Knocks should the Giants be forced to do it, was a de facto hypocrite. I disagree with that.

      Of course, if you, Morehead, and other Giants fans choose to watch said show solely because Giants are featured on it, that's your prerogative and in fact is understandable to me. I meant no disrespect to any of you.

      My POV has nothing to do with being, or not being, an HBO subscriber. I am and have been for years. And, btw, with all the high quality original TV series programming available now, YEAR ROUND, from NetFlix, AMC, ST, HBO, FX, BBC America, etc, (not all of them subscription cable channels) the age of being resigned to summer reruns has long been a relic of the past.

      The only way I will watch the show at all if Giants are drafted to do it, is to watch any episode (after original broadcast) On Demand or HBO.GO when the board here says an episode with Coughlin telling any HBO rep to go **** themselves occurred. I think we are all in agreement with wanting to see that on HBO.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by gmen46 View Post
        You're right. We are fans, not employees (players, coaches). But if players and coaches' maximum efforts to prepare for their best seasonal performances possible are interfered with--for absolutely no practical purpose--then as a fan of the team, that affects me. And not in a good way, in my view. That's me, and that's why I'm so adamant against the Giants being FORCED to do the show if that turns out to occur. It's an interesting coincidence to me that Mara happens to feel the same way about appearing on the show and has said so more than once publicly.

        You and others don't agree with that viewpoint, to the extent of refusing to watch if the Giants are forced to appear on the show. Fine.

        I have yet to hear a single valid explanation from anyone--here or elsewhere--as to how FORCING a team to participate in this show dedicated to narcissism and voyeurism in any way HELPS a team, or is good for a team.

        As to hypocrisy, my response was to a sentiment posted that ANY Giants fan who did not want to--or who did not admit to wanting to-- watch Hard Knocks should the Giants be forced to do it, was a de facto hypocrite. I disagree with that.

        Of course, if you, Morehead, and other Giants fans choose to watch said show solely because Giants are featured on it, that's your prerogative and in fact is understandable to me. I meant no disrespect to any of you.

        My POV has nothing to do with being, or not being, an HBO subscriber. I am and have been for years. And, btw, with all the high quality original TV series programming available now, YEAR ROUND, from NetFlix, AMC, ST, HBO, FX, BBC America, etc, (not all of them subscription cable channels) the age of being resigned to summer reruns has long been a relic of the past.

        The only way I will watch the show at all if Giants are drafted to do it, is to watch any episode (after original broadcast) On Demand or HBO.GO when the board here says an episode with Coughlin telling any HBO rep to go **** themselves occurred. I think we are all in agreement with wanting to see that on HBO.
        1. You stay on that high horse. i wouldn't have it any other way.
        2. The "theory" is that it promotes the game and adds to the fan base....which benefits the NFL as a whole...and by extension, all of it's teams...Including the New York Football Giants.
        3. I'm sure HBO is paying for the rights to cover a team's training camp which bring revenue to the league. So maybe Eli can make more money and won't have to moonlight as a "fake memorabilia pedlar.


        I crack myself up!
        Last edited by Morehead State; 05-01-2014, 06:48 PM.
        Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

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        • Originally posted by gmen46 View Post
          The only way I will watch the show at all if Giants are drafted to do it, is to watch any episode (after original broadcast) On Demand or HBO.GO when the board here says an episode with Coughlin telling any HBO rep to go **** themselves occurred. I think we are all in agreement with wanting to see that on HBO.
          James Harrison pretty much already did that 2 years ago. Another thing that you'd think you know since you have such a strong opinion on something you've admittedly hardly ever seen or watched.

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          • Originally posted by mikeq6722 View Post
            James Harrison pretty much already did that 2 years ago. Another thing that you'd think you know since you have such a strong opinion on something you've admittedly hardly ever seen or watched.
            I don't think I need to have seen all 48 episodes (or whatever final count is) in order to have a valid opinion about what the show actually perveys. I've seen 4 or 5 episodes over the years. I watched one Bengals episode with Chad in it. That was more than enough. If I found the show compelling, as some obviously do, I would have watched every episode--and would have been disappointed when each season ended. You know, like Breaking Bad, or Deadwood.

            I didn't need to burn my hand on the stove more than once as a 4 year old, either, in order to learn the word "hot" meant pain to the touch and to avoid the hot stove.

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            • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
              1. You stay on that high horse. i wouldn't have it any other way.
              2. The "theory" is that it promotes the game and adds to the fan base....which benefits the NFL as a whole...and by extension, all of it's teams...Including the New York Football Giants.
              3. I'm sure HBO is paying for the rights to cover a team's training camp which bring revenue to the league. So maybe Eli can make more money and won't have to moonlight as a "fake memorabilia pedlar.


              I crack myself up!
              You may be onto something. Overhearing Eli and the equipment manager (Skiba, is it?) huddle quietly in a corner, scheming how they can screw over memorabilia collectors WOULD be compelling TV. I might watch that. Especially if they grab Mara as he walks by, for an executive consult on the matter.

              I'm having second thoughts (or are they impure thoughts?) about the show, now that you opened my eyes to all the possibilities.

              Maybe even have Ashton Kutcher burst in an episode where he punks Coughlin and Reese. Now THAT's NFL drama. Compelling TV, for sure. Hell, yeah, I'd watch that. Thanks for the enlightenment, morehead!

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              • Originally posted by YATittle1962 View Post
                Mr. Mara is much more concerned with what is good for the NY Giants

                and Hard Knocks is not one of those things
                Oh there big boys YA they can handle it I'm sure.. I think it would be great! But I don't think it will happen...1 way to avoid that is to make the playoffs and or Get a new Head Coach...

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                • Originally posted by luni View Post
                  I just dont think nfl teams want this? It is like they are being forced to do it. Why was Hard Knocks even introduced to the NFL? and why are teams being made to do it? What dotted line nonsense did NFL teams sign?
                  Didn't the owners vote on this? so if that's true I guess they want it right?

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                  • Originally posted by Striker1 View Post
                    Didn't the owners vote on this? so if that's true I guess they want it right?
                    Not all the owners, but enough to approve it.
                    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                    • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                      Not all the owners, but enough to approve it.
                      When was that vote? Have they reaffirmed that vote since the show has been on the air?
                      No one remembers who came in second.

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                      • Originally posted by jomo View Post
                        When was that vote? Have they reaffirmed that vote since the show has been on the air?
                        Yes, so many teams refused to participate early on HBO and NFL.Films needed to have Goodell apply pressure. My guess is that he lobbied enough owners to get it approved and I don't have a problem with that, but I do think forcing teams isn't the right approach. A "plurality" voted to make it mandatory so I think those owners need to step up to the plate.

                        Whatever happens happens, but it's going to be a distraction
                        “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                        • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                          Not all the owners, but enough to approve it.
                          That's all that matters than...

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                          • Is there any actual evidence that Hard Knocks "distracted" any of the teams involved to the point where they underachieved during the season? I don't recall that ever happening and the show has been on for quite a while.

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                            • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                              Yes, so many teams refused to participate early on HBO and NFL.Films needed to have Goodell apply pressure. My guess is that he lobbied enough owners to get it approved and I don't have a problem with that, but I do think forcing teams isn't the right approach. A "plurality" voted to make it mandatory so I think those owners need to step up to the plate.

                              Whatever happens happens, but it's going to be a distraction
                              But did he go for the re-affirmation because the league had pulled down money on a 10 year contract and he couldn't find enough teams to back that up? Just trying to understand how this rolled out and then rolled down hill/

                              Specifically, how long was the original contract and how much did it pay the league?
                              How did the vote go? Do we know the % of owners voting yes? I can calculate the "no votes" from that.
                              Was there a revolt of sorts from owners saying "no" to appearting on the show subsequent to the original vote?
                              Was there a second vote and how did that go?

                              It is perfectly OK for you to tell me to go to sleep and leave you alone.
                              No one remembers who came in second.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
                                Is there any actual evidence that Hard Knocks "distracted" any of the teams involved to the point where they underachieved during the season? I don't recall that ever happening and the show has been on for quite a while.
                                What would we know that would provide that answer? Having a TV production crew in their midst is not a normal event, people tend to and and react differently when they know they are being recorded.
                                “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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