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HBO and the NFL have narrowed down the HARD KNOCKS teams to Bears, Giants, Steelers

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  • Originally posted by DSP View Post
    Is that a hamster size burrito he is stuffing in his face?
    Yes

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    • They won't make a team do it if they don't want to.

      If Dallas drafts Manziel, keep an eye out for that BTW, Jerry will want to do Hard Knocks.

      Dallas is better for hard Knocks than us. They are a big deal in July/August. We are a big deal in December and January.

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      • Originally posted by Tommy_Ribs View Post
        They won't make a team do it if they don't want to.

        If Dallas drafts Manziel, keep an eye out for that BTW, Jerry will want to do Hard Knocks.

        Dallas is better for hard Knocks than us. They are a big deal in July/August. We are a big deal in December and January.
        Teams not wnting to volunteer is the whole reason why the rule was instituted.
        With Dallas, they've already appeared on the show twice so won't have to take part unless they specifically ask to do so.

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        • I hope they dont choose g-men. Don't need the extra attention

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          • Originally posted by jomo View Post
            Well there we have it. It means something that they didn't let it die.
            Internal politics being what they are, I could see Jones, Snyder and Lurie voting yes just to **** off John Mara
            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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            • Originally posted by gmen46 View Post
              And that's the core of the debate on this thread. It should not be mandatory.

              Sorry, but I don't agree with your premise of hypocrisy. I'm an NFL fan. I'm a Giants fan. For 45 years. Not watching or wanting to watch Hard Knocks--with or without my team in it--does not make me (or anyone else sharing that point of view) a "one dimensional hypocrite".

              Not being a creepy fanboy who wants to watch the players in the showers and snapping towels in the locker room does not make me a one dimensional hypocrite.

              I'm a fan of the game itself. I like watching (and rooting for) players on my team to make plays. Beyond what the team itself is willing to share with the public, I have no desire to be the fly on the wall that overhears players and coaches in meetings and on the practice field or a player's problems off the field or at home.

              Just like the players enjoy having fans but don't really want to be friends with specific fans.

              There's a line between being a fan and being a voyeur or a stalker.

              Anyone who wants to watch that hyped circus called Hard Knocks, fine. Free country and all that.

              I just believe that a team that does not want to participate and subject itself to that narcissistic exercise should not be forced to. I also believe it's curious and telling that so few teams have wanted to do the show that collectively many of those same teams voted to force themselves to do it.

              I think, however, it's presumptuous to label any Giants fan who has absolutely no interest in watching the show (even with the Giants) as being a one dimensional hypocrite. If anything IS hypocritical, it is to not like the show and/or not want the Giants to perform in it, but then watch the show because the Giants are in it.

              I think your forgetting the impact that Steve & Ed Sabol had on this game which formed NFL Films. Was it necessary to mic players, and create highlight films set to music to enhance the spirit of the game? No. Did it help make the game more popular? Without a doubt. Was it a distraction" I'm sure it was at first.

              But what if Hank Stram refused to be wired - as I'm pretty certain he was dead set against it at first. Listening to Stram coaching on the sidelines is legendary material that we grew up with, and even Hank later learned to appreciate it.

              I was filmed for a national television broadcast and the program needed my written permission to feature me in that program, so perhaps you need to take a step back acting as if the poor players have no say what would get aired. Everyone who is on camera knows it, and they have to approve the release.

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              • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                I think your forgetting the impact that Steve & Ed Sabol had on this game which formed NFL Films. Was it necessary to mic players, and create highlight films set to music to enhance the spirit of the game? No. Did it help make the game more popular? Without a doubt. Was it a distraction" I'm sure it was at first.

                But what if Hank Stram refused to be wired - as I'm pretty certain he was dead set against it at first. Listening to Stram coaching on the sidelines is legendary material that we grew up with, and even Hank later learned to appreciate it.

                I was filmed for a national television broadcast and the program needed my written permission to feature me in that program, so perhaps you need to take a step back acting as if the poor players have no say what would get aired. Everyone who is on camera knows it, and they have to approve the release.

                I have tremendous respect for the Sabols and what they accomplished.

                Were any of those teams FORCED to have highlights of them during games? Was Stram FORCED to be wired during that game? Don't remember or actually know? Neither do I. But I do suspect, reasonably in my view, that they were asked and not forced against their will.

                That's the issue with me. Not the show itself. If teams want to be filmed, great. If 3 million fans (number of 2013 HK viewers) want to watch it, fine.

                The Giants, in the voice of the owner, have made it clear they do NOT want to participate. If no team volunteers this summer (which should tell you all you need to know about how "thrilled" most of the teams actually are about that prospect), and Goodell's office choose the Giants, I'm sure--due to the owners' vote--the Giants will be on Hard Knocks.

                And, considering how much work obviously needs to be done this off season (and especially during the 6 weeks of camp and pre season games) in order for the Giants to become at minimum a playoff team in 2014, I'm sure Mara, Reese, Coughlin consider this particular pre season especially onerous timing for this issue.

                As a Giants fan, I was hoping the team would hunker down with as little outside distraction as possible, in order to enable maximum preparation. Clearly, many on this board don't agree.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                  I think your forgetting the impact that Steve & Ed Sabol had on this game which formed NFL Films. Was it necessary to mic players, and create highlight films set to music to enhance the spirit of the game? No. Did it help make the game more popular? Without a doubt. Was it a distraction" I'm sure it was at first.

                  But what if Hank Stram refused to be wired - as I'm pretty certain he was dead set against it at first. Listening to Stram coaching on the sidelines is legendary material that we grew up with, and even Hank later learned to appreciate it.

                  I was filmed for a national television broadcast and the program needed my written permission to feature me in that program, so perhaps you need to take a step back acting as if the poor players have no say what would get aired. Everyone who is on camera knows it, and they have to approve the release.
                  All due respect, I am not sure the players would have that explicit right. We'd have to know how the agreement is written and if the CBA speaks to this issue. However, for the sake of argument, and you are right, all they need to do is get the major players to refuse permission.
                  “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by gmen46 View Post
                    I have tremendous respect for the Sabols and what they accomplished.

                    Were any of those teams FORCED to have highlights of them during games? Was Stram FORCED to be wired during that game? Don't remember or actually know? Neither do I. But I do suspect, reasonably in my view, that they were asked and not forced against their will.

                    That's the issue with me. Not the show itself. If teams want to be filmed, great. If 3 million fans (number of 2013 HK viewers) want to watch it, fine.

                    The Giants, in the voice of the owner, have made it clear they do NOT want to participate. If no team volunteers this summer (which should tell you all you need to know about how "thrilled" most of the teams actually are about that prospect), and Goodell's office choose the Giants, I'm sure--due to the owners' vote--the Giants will be on Hard Knocks.

                    And, considering how much work obviously needs to be done this off season (and especially during the 6 weeks of camp and pre season games) in order for the Giants to become at minimum a playoff team in 2014, I'm sure Mara, Reese, Coughlin consider this particular pre season especially onerous timing for this issue.

                    As a Giants fan, I was hoping the team would hunker down with as little outside distraction as possible, in order to enable maximum preparation. Clearly, many on this board don't agree.
                    You make an excellent point with them being forced into something but wasn't it that collective "spirit" which drove this league to it's ultimate success?

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                    • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                      All due respect, I am not sure the players would have that explicit right. We'd have to know how the agreement is written and if the CBA speaks to this issue. However, for the sake of argument, and you are right, all they need to do is get the major players to refuse permission.
                      I've watched minimal HK with the Jets and I saw players getting cut. I can't imagine these guys allowing that to be aired without their consent as well as compensation. Of course I could be wrong, but I have been on national TV. lol

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                      • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                        I've watched minimal HK with the Jets and I saw players getting cut. I can't imagine these guys allowing that to be aired without their consent as well as compensation. Of course I could be wrong, but I have been on national TV. lol
                        As soon as they decide we will know who the lucky team is.
                        “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                        • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                          As soon as they decide we will know who the lucky team is.
                          Okay Ro, but that has nothing to do with my point about players signing off on being featured.

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                          • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                            Okay Ro, but that has nothing to do with my point about players signing off on being featured.
                            I don't think that's the case, but I don't have access to any documents that would give us the answer.
                            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                            • Players give the league permission to use them in that fashion when they sign their contract.

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                              • Originally posted by Flip Empty View Post
                                Players give the league permission to use them in that fashion when they sign their contract.
                                They also have no expectation of privacy since teams film practices and everyone else films games.
                                “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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