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"JPP is not the elite player he was in 2011" - Per PFF - JPP had more QB pressures in 2014 than 2011

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  • "JPP is not the elite player he was in 2011" - Per PFF - JPP had more QB pressures in 2014 than 2011

    Now explain for those that think along the lines of that quote.

    You know who you are. I am not calling you out, just a friendly debate


    Joel Corry ‏@corryjoel

    Jason Pierre-Paul didn't reach his 2011 sack total this season but had more QB pressures according to @PFF (56 in 2011 vs. 60 in 2014).
    "Once a Giant, ALWAYS, a Giant."

  • #2
    ive been saying that since 2011. lol

    his conversion of QB pressures/hits into sacks that season was just ridiculous.

    Its completely unfair to him that his career is being based on that.


    But as usual the detractors will move the goalposts.

    First it was "he doesnt have the sack numbers"

    he posts 12 sacks

    Then it was "he cant beat good players"

    half his sacks are against probowl LTs

    now its "he can only beat good players when they arent trying"
    Last edited by slipknottin; 12-31-2014, 06:50 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
      ive been saying that since 2011. lol

      his conversion of QB pressures/hits into sacks that season was just ridiculous.

      Its completely unfair to him that his career is being based on that.
      As have I.

      And he's been inches/half a second away from converting those pressures this season as well..... surrounded by MUCH lesser talent.

      One man army.
      "Once a Giant, ALWAYS, a Giant."

      Comment


      • #4
        if we dont pay pierre paul ( or franchise him) some team will

        Comment


        • #5
          Speaking of stats. JPP had a very good statistical year. He's top 5 DE easy in my book. I'm not surprised the Giants are thinking of tagging him.

          Comment


          • #6
            Listen, I love me some JPP. I want him back, at a fair price.

            Bt, you have to admit, his play did seem to elevate substantially those last five games. Now, you know me, I'm not trying to say he sucked those first eleven weeks. He didn't and I often defended him.

            But, the level of play those first eleven didn't match the last five, and, there were a few games he was a non factor. I actually got on him at one point this season because it didn't look like the intensity was all there for a few weeks. Now could I and others have overblown that? Yea probably.

            But if we're going to be contenders going forward, JPP os going to have to be a large factor in that. The defense this year was atrocious. Is it fair to say jpp shouldn't have allowed the d to play as poorly as it did by performing better himself? Probably not. But, those last five games he really turned it on, guess what happened? The d played much better as a result, see how that can be fairly interpreted to how badly the d struggled most of the season? How the d played terribly and jpp wasn't a factor in changing that?

            I'd say most giants fan want him back, but id also say it isn't wrong for some to wonder just what we're going to get after we likely give him a huge deal...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by pino View Post
              Speaking of stats. JPP had a very good statistical year. He's top 5 DE easy in my book. I'm not surprised the Giants are thinking of tagging him.
              He's the second best defensive end in the NFL next to JJ Watt.

              I think the franchise tag just allows us to hammer out a deal not being under the gun of time.
              "Once a Giant, ALWAYS, a Giant."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                Bt, you have to admit, his play did seem to elevate substantially those last five games. Now, you know me, I'm not trying to say he sucked those first eleven weeks. He didn't and I often defended him.
                It looked to me like he had more flexibility than he had earlier in the year, he could bend better and turn tighter.

                And I mean if we remember JPP earlier in his career (pre back surgery) this was a guy who seemed to play the game completely bent over, how he managed to do it I have no idea, but he did.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                  ...his play did seem to elevate substantially those last five games. Now, you know me, I'm not trying to say he sucked those first eleven weeks. He didn't and I often defended him.
                  I'd be more concerned if he didn't elevate or inflate his level of play during the last five games. I remember one year Osi had like 6 sacks one game, and critics would use that "if you take that game away" argument. Well every DE has garbage/inflated stats. If the team is bad and you expect someone to dominate, then why is it a negative when they do?

                  (I'm not saying you are guilty of that giantsfan420. You just made me think about that.)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                    It looked to me like he had more flexibility than he had earlier in the year, he could bend better and turn tighter.

                    And I mean if we remember JPP earlier in his career (pre back surgery) this was a guy who seemed to play the game completely bent over, how he managed to do it I have no idea, but he did.
                    I wish I could
                    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                      Listen, I love me some JPP. I want him back, at a fair price.

                      Bt, you have to admit, his play did seem to elevate substantially those last five games. Now, you know me, I'm not trying to say he sucked those first eleven weeks. He didn't and I often defended him.

                      But, the level of play those first eleven didn't match the last five, and, there were a few games he was a non factor. I actually got on him at one point this season because it didn't look like the intensity was all there for a few weeks. Now could I and others have overblown that? Yea probably.

                      But if we're going to be contenders going forward, JPP os going to have to be a large factor in that. The defense this year was atrocious. Is it fair to say jpp shouldn't have allowed the d to play as poorly as it did by performing better himself? Probably not. But, those last five games he really turned it on, guess what happened? The d played much better as a result, see how that can be fairly interpreted to how badly the d struggled most of the season? How the d played terribly and jpp wasn't a factor in changing that?

                      I'd say most giants fan want him back, but id also say it isn't wrong for some to wonder just what we're going to get after we likely give him a huge deal...
                      He was the only threat offenses had to worry about on that line.
                      -
                      Once he was surrounded by younger/better more productive talent and given the luxury to be moved around, his numbers increased.

                      It's not a coincidence.

                      He did it against Philly for those that want ti point out the competition. Jason Peters the #1 / #2 LT in the game and Trent Richardson. Dominated in both those games.
                      "Once a Giant, ALWAYS, a Giant."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                        It looked to me like he had more flexibility than he had earlier in the year, he could bend better and turn tighter.
                        Yeah is'd agree. There was a point, right around when he starts to play really well maybe even a week before, where I studied some of his play and came away thinking he actually looked healthier or fresher or something. Some maybe saw that as he started to try harder? I dont know. But I remember and think it may have even been his arm shoulder area that started to look way more flexible, thinking wow insure hope this guy is here to stay.

                        But again see how that could lead some to wonder just exactly what we're gonna get? I always thought you made a fair point in terms of the pressure to sack ratio and how '11 wasn't this easily replicated thing to expect every year. I did disagree tho in that I did think he could repeat those levels of play, if we got him solid help at the other end spot.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by pino View Post
                          I'd be more concerned if he didn't elevate or inflate his level of play during the last five games. I remember one year Osi had like 6 sacks one game, and critics would use that "if you take that game away" argument. Well every DE has garbage/inflated stats. If the team is bad and you expect someone to dominate, then why is it a negative when they do?

                          (I'm not saying you are guilty of that giantsfan420. You just made me think about that.)
                          That's Def a very fair and valid point, aspect that I didn't even think about.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NYG4lifeNYK View Post
                            He was the only threat offenses had to worry about on that line.
                            -
                            Once he was surrounded by younger/better more productive talent and given the luxury to be moved around, his numbers increased.

                            It's not a coincidence.

                            He did it against Philly for those that want ti point out the competition. Jason Peters the #1 / #2 LT in the game and Trent Richardson. Dominated in both those games.
                            Yeah that first italicized point is really a good point. I kinda would say that we potentially had the kind of players who could help jpp out more, but fewell just didn't play them. I still have no idea why ayers was used the way he was used in comparison to kiwi. Still baffled. When ayers and jpp were on the field together, it was a very effective pairing.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                              Yeah is'd agree. There was a point, right around when he starts to play really well maybe even a week before, where I studied some of his play and came away thinking he actually looked healthier or fresher or something. Some maybe saw that as he started to try harder? I dont know. But I remember and think it may have even been his arm shoulder area that started to look way more flexible, thinking wow insure hope this guy is here to stay.

                              But again see how that could lead some to wonder just exactly what we're gonna get? I always thought you made a fair point in terms of the pressure to sack ratio and how '11 wasn't this easily replicated thing to expect every year. I did disagree tho in that I did think he could repeat those levels of play, if we got him solid help at the other end spot.
                              I thought and still do think, that JPP could play much better than he did in 2011, but not have nearly the statistically production.

                              Thinking he could end a year with more pressures/hits but not necessarily the sacks.

                              He could get another 16+ sack season, but it would mean his pressures/hits would have to go up quite a bit. Which is possible, but not easy, and I dont think should be expected.

                              Would I complain about having a DE who finishes top 10 in sacks, top 5 in tackles and batted passes nearly every season? No, Im pretty happy with that.

                              I understand the cap implications of keeping him, but lets be honest, that kind of production is not something that is easily found in this league.

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