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KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS

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  • KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS



    KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS



    "The hands clap and the huddle breaks and the receivers jog out to their
    positions. Kevin Gilbride has
    already relayed the play to Eli Manning, but the
    receivers still have no idea where they’re going to go.



    That’s part of the beauty of the Gilbride offense. Everything the receivers
    do is based on what happens next. Is there man-to-man coverage or a zone? Which
    way are the safeties shading? Are the corners pressing on the line or leaving a
    cushion?




    Then, when the ball is snapped and the defense goes in motion, everything
    could change...again.




    “Yeah, it’s definitely tough,” says receiver Victor Cruz. “It’s one
    of the biggest things I had to adjust to, learning how to read coverages and
    adjust mid-route. We had a few read-routes in college, but nothing to this
    extent where it’s 15 yards down field and you have to make an adjustment.
    Sometimes they may line up one way, then when the ball comes they move to
    somewhere else. So you have to see all of that.”




    It’s a demanding system. It can be confusing. It can be frustrating, too,
    especially to a young player. It’s also explosive, “quarterback-friendly,”
    potent, and the most prolific offensive system the Giants franchise has ever
    seen.




    “That’s the beauty of it,” says backup quarterback David Carr.
    “When we’re rolling, it’s hard to stop.”




    That’s what the 60-year-old Gilbride has created in his eighth season with
    the Giants and fifth since taking over as the offensive coordinator. He’s helped
    turn Eli Manning from an erratic, interception-prone quarterback into a
    near-5,000-yard passer. He’s built an offensive machine that has rallied from
    six fourth-quarter deficits this year. It can strike so quickly, the Giants
    never feel like they’re out of a game.




    And he’s done that with a rebuilding offensive line, the 32nd-ranked rushing
    attack in the league, and a tight end (Jake Ballard) and star
    receiver (Victor Cruz) who had never had a single catch in the NFL before this
    year.




    Manning gets all the credit, and much of it is deserved. But it’s not like
    he’s on the field drawing up plays in the dirt.




    “Eli’s playing so well and that’s a tribute to Kevin,” says former Giants
    quarterbacks coach Chris Palmer, who is
    now the offensive coordinator with the Tennessee Titans. “The guy is an
    outstanding football coach and does a great job. What is perceived about him and
    what is real is not necessarily one and the same. Kevin should get a lot of
    credit for the success they’ve had this year.”




    Ask anyone in the locker room, and Gilbride does get the credit. Tom
    Coughlin
    praises his ability as a teacher and his players praise his
    patience and the way he calls a game. It drives them crazy that he’s a target
    for angry fans, who sometimes call him “Killdrive” when games don’t go the
    Giants’ way.

    He’s always had a reputation problem, though, dating back to his days running
    the run-and-shoot offense with the Houston Oilers (1990-94). Gilbride got a
    label he couldn’t shake when former Oilers defensive coordinator Buddy
    Ryan
    famously called his wide-open passing attack the “chuck-and-duck” and
    then even more famously when Rex’s dad tried to punch him on the sidelines in
    the middle of a game.



    Yes, Gilbride may look like a pass-happy coordinator at times, but it’s easy
    to forget that in 2008 the Giants had the NFL’s seventh-best offense with the
    No. 1 rushing attack. In fact, in three of his five seasons as offensive
    coordinator, the Giants’ rushing attack was ranked higher than its passing
    attack in the league.




    What makes Gilbride appear pass-happy is this: He runs what everyone
    considers a “quarterback-friendly” offense that puts a lot of responsibility on
    the receivers and control in the quarterbacks’ hands. They throw because they
    can. And it works.




    “A lot is asked of the quarterback,” Carr says. “You’ve got the freedom to do
    pretty much whatever you want. The playbook’s open to you. You’ve got to be on
    your game. But if you are, it’s a great thing.”




    Explained very simply, Manning has the ability to change the play to almost
    anything in that week’s game plan, based on what he sees in the defensive
    alignment. And when he calls a pass play, the receivers have several options to
    change their routes on each play, depending on what the defense does. It’s
    complicated and hard to learn, and it can be very tricky for the quarterback and
    receiver to make sure they’re seeing exactly the same thing out of each
    defender.




    Because there are so many options in Gilbride’s offense, though, when it’s
    run correctly there are more chances for it to work.




    “You give the receivers several options to get open and when guys get open
    you, as a quarterback, have an opportunity to throw the ball,” Palmer says.
    “When a receiver doesn’t get open, that becomes a burden. It’s reassuring to the
    quarterback that ‘Hey, one of these guys are going to get open.’ I would say on
    most plays there’s going to be a guy that’s open in this offense.”




    “I’ve been in offenses where it’s all based on progressions - 1, 2, 3, find
    the back,” Carr adds. “There’s some of that. But we’re trying to scheme. We’re
    trying to find the best possible play vs. that defense at that time to just gash
    them. That’s why it works.”




    It also works because Gilbride is an outstanding teacher and someone that, as
    Coughlin says, can “evaluate your talent and see what they can and cannot do.”
    He was the quarterbacks coach through the first three years of Manning’s career,
    learned his strengths and his weaknesses well, developed a special bond with him
    and helped him grow into the Pro Bowler he is today.

    “Coach Gilbride and I have a very close relationship,” Manning says. “When I
    first got here, he was the quarterbacks coach, so I got to kind of learn from
    him, and hearing him directly and watching old film of the Oilers and different
    things when they were running it. We think the same way on a lot of things and
    certain looks. A lot of times he doesn’t even need to finish his sentence,
    because I’m already on the same page.”



    Sure, it helps that Gilbride likes to throw. A lot. He even jokes that
    Coughlin sometimes sits in on the offensive meetings just “to make sure I don’t
    veer too far off of the reservation and throw the ball 65 times in a game or
    something like that.” Manning says Gilbride calls plays with “a quarterback
    mentality.” And while he’ll go with whatever’s working, it’s obvious what he
    prefers.




    “If we’re not running it really well and we’re throwing it well, I’ll just go
    up to him and say, ‘Hey, they can’t stop us throwing it. Let’s just keep
    throwing it,’?” Manning says. “And he kind of gets a smile. I think that’s what
    he likes to hear.”




    That’s the way the NFL is now - a pass-first league - which makes Gilbride
    the ideal offensive coordinator for this era. If he were 15 years younger his
    work with the Giants might have already earned him a head coaching job
    somewhere. He’d probably still be an attractive candidate if he hadn’t already
    had a failed stint as a head coach with the San Diego Chargers in 1997-98, when
    he was run out of town with a 6-16 record after he couldn’t connect with his
    hot-headed rookie quarterback, Ryan Leaf.




    When those 22 games are added to his image problem, it helps paint a picture
    that belies the numbers his offenses regularly produce. It also paints a picture
    his players believe is completely unfair.




    “I don’t think he gets enough credit,” says guard Chris Snee. “I
    feel like I always hear a lot of negative stuff about him. He’s the first one
    everyone wants to blame for play calling and things like that, but I think he
    does a great job.”




    Some might say it’s the best job Gilbride has done in his five years running
    the Giants’ offense.




    Considering the players the Giants lost before the season started, the
    injuries that forced him to reshuffle his line and play four games without his
    starting running back, and how he helped turn a blocking tight end and an
    unknown receiver into stars, it might be the best job he’s done in his 23 years
    in the league.




    “I’d rather let you answer that than me,” Gilbride says. “Let me just say
    that I’m very proud of the guys that I work with. We started with five new guys
    and then we had all of the injuries and the youth and the guys who haven’t
    played and some of the things that we ask them to do. You don’t just, in our
    offense, go out and run a 12-yard curl or a 10-yard in-cut. We ask them to read
    a lot of things. We put a lot of pressure on receivers to see things as a
    quarterback would. It’s very difficult as a coach to get those things
    coordinated.




    “So to see them grow like that - obviously, what are you? You’re a teacher.
    When you’re a teacher and you can see your pupils getting better and feel like
    you contributed, you’re very proud of their growth and development. So you feel,
    ‘Maybe I helped them a little bit.’”




    Not that he ever gets the credit for that. He’s too busy taking the blame
    when everything doesn’t work to perfection.




    “I think it’s just the nature of the position,” Carr says. “I think he does a
    good job just by not paying attention to it. He’s going to be who he is.
    Nobody’s going to change him now.”

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

  • #2
    Re: KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS

    KG teacher,the Giants and there fan's don't know how lucky we have been to have him and TC!!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS

      Such an underrated coordinator. I had a huge post about the type of offense Gilbride runs which I can't find. Simply put, when the receivers and QB are on the same page, with all the option routes (which was a dirty word earlier in the year) the offense is almost unstoppable.

      Watch SoundFX on www.nfl.com, Carlos Rogers, one of the BEST corners this year (on the Niners), Carlos Rogers was saying of Victor Cruz, something along the lines of "I can't stop him, I run inside he runs outside". I think film study is what sets Nicks and Cruz apart from the mighty talented Manningham. That's why a meticulous player like Steve Smith as even Plax would be a great addition to our offense.
      My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS

        Lol Thanks for this thread...Im a huge fan of Kevin Gilbride and this coaching staff. Since Coughlin and Gilbride came together, we have put up some potent numbers Offensively and we do it with a healthy balance of run and pass. The Giants of the past, was a conversative running the ball with a game managing QB.

        Why would any1 want Gilbride and Eli Manning separated? Eli Manning has flourished in this offense, and this offense makes us unpredictable when our receivers run routes. The coaching staff does a good job getting Cruz and Ballard ready for an offense like this.... U hear all this praise for Reese, but Reese didnt choose Cruz based on this type of offense because Cruz said this offense was different. That SHOWS THIS COACHING STAFF puts players in the best position to succeed. This coaching staff and Eli Manning deserves alot of credit getting these young guys ready.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS

          [quote user="RoanokeFan"]"Eli’s playing so well and that’s a tribute to Kevin,” says former Giants
          quarterbacks coach Chris Palmer, who is
          now the offensive coordinator with the Tennessee Titans. “The guy is an
          outstanding football coach and does a great job. What is perceived about him and
          what is real is not necessarily one and the same. Kevin should get a lot of
          credit for the success they’ve had this year.”[/quote]Yeah but what does he know? LOL
          My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS

            Sure the guy is phenomenal when it comes to a passing attack. Setting up a passing scheme for a game, im not sure there are many coaches that are better. But thats where it stops for me..

            The problem presents itself when he refuses to change and adapt to how our team is playing in a game. Our running game can be on fire (not much this year) and he will abandon the run and throw it 4-6 straight times. We have all seen games where AB and BJ are having there was with a defense in the second half and then... It stops..

            When he does call a running play, id give it a solid 40% of the time the play doesnt play to the strength of the player called. Tosses to BJ to the outside for example. That is NOT his strength. BJ is best attacking the LOS and then bouncing it to the outside at the 2nd lvl. He needs to get straight speed first and that allows his big body to be more agile.

            Then we can talk about the WR Screens that avg about .3 yds an attempt. Or perhaps we should talk about 3rd and 2 we throw a 50 yard bomb to the endzone for an incompletion.

            My largest problem with Gilbride is his inability to design short gain plays. Everything is either a run, bomb or god awful WR screen. We need more pass plays that take advantage of short yardage.

            Every single Giants fan can attest to the fact that they are more confident in a 3rd and 6 situation then a 3rd and 2 or 3rd and 1. Why? Because Gilbride focuses so much on attacking downfield he sometimes forgets to simple MOVE THE CHAINS.

            And Gilbride has NOTHING to do with Eli having a phenomenal game after getting his *** kicked by the 49ers. In fact, it was Gilbrides long passing attempts that allowed Eli to get manhandled like he did. Sorry but if we lost that game or Eli got injured, we are talking about Gilbrides head on a platter for having Eli throw the ball 60 times in a game.

            Sorry, I am not buying it. In my honest opinion, we would be putting up similar numbers with or without Gilbride. I give him solid credit for his passing schemes as they are very solid. But as an overall OC, I simply do not like his passing bias or his play calling.

            Be honest guys, he has made just as many crappy play calls as he has made good ones.

            I'm simply not buying this.. I prefer a more balanced offense. Who is to say Kevin isnt a large part of why our running game hasnt been good this year. If he is getting the passing praise, he should get the running failure.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS

              [quote user="gmen0820"]Such an underrated coordinator. I had a huge post about the type of offense Gilbride runs which I can't find. Simply put, when the receivers and QB are on the same page, with all the option routes (which was a dirty word earlier in the year) the offense is almost unstoppable.

              Watch SoundFX on www.nfl.com, Carlos Rogers, one of the BEST corners this year (on the Niners), Carlos Rogers was saying of Victor Cruz, something along the lines of "I can't stop him, I run inside he runs outside". I think film study is what sets Nicks and Cruz apart from the mighty talented Manningham. That's why a meticulous player like Steve Smith as even Plax would be a great addition to our offense.[/quote]

              As frustrating as the Giants O can be at times, too many people just don't realize how much is going on there (something I always bring up when people are complaining about the playclock running down).

              IMO, what makes Nicks/Cruz so damn good is that they are ALWAYS with Eli and Gilbride, studying and trying to get better.

              Its not that I don't think 'Rio can be the same type of player... he put up some great numbers last year. However, I sometimes think the offense is just too complicated for him. IIRC, he had one of the worst Wonderlic scores ever. Maybe he should have been a DB? There's an inverse correlation between wonderlic scores and CB ability (the best CB's have the worst scores). He's definitely got the athleticism for it.

              That's also why I'd like to see Barden get a shot as the slot guy next season. He's got a reputation as a very smart/studious player and took the time to show up to Camp Eli even though he couldn't participate.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS

                [quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="gmen0820"]Such an underrated coordinator. I had a huge post about the type of offense Gilbride runs which I can't find. Simply put, when the receivers and QB are on the same page, with all the option routes (which was a dirty word earlier in the year) the offense is almost unstoppable.

                Watch SoundFX on www.nfl.com, Carlos Rogers, one of the BEST corners this year (on the Niners), Carlos Rogers was saying of Victor Cruz, something along the lines of "I can't stop him, I run inside he runs outside". I think film study is what sets Nicks and Cruz apart from the mighty talented Manningham. That's why a meticulous player like Steve Smith as even Plax would be a great addition to our offense.[/quote]

                As frustrating as the Giants O can be at times, too many people just don't realize how much is going on there (something I always bring up when people are complaining about the playclock running down).

                IMO, what makes Nicks/Cruz so damn good is that they are ALWAYS with Eli and Gilbride, studying and trying to get better.

                Its not that I don't think 'Rio can be the same type of player... he put up some great numbers last year. However, I sometimes think the offense is just too complicated for him. IIRC, he had one of the worst Wonderlic scores ever. Maybe he should have been a DB? There's an inverse correlation between wonderlic scores and CB ability (the best CB's have the worst scores). He's definitely got the athleticism for it.

                That's also why I'd like to see Barden get a shot as the slot guy next season. He's got a reputation as a very smart/studious player and took the time to show up to Camp Eli even though he couldn't participate.
                [/quote]Definitely agreed on all fronts. I'd love to bring Smith back if possible.

                I wouldn't mind seeing Barden as our slot guy next year, since I love Cruz's prospects on the outside and since Barden has stated he is comfortable in the slot (and what a weapon in the slot he can be on paper, a 6-6 guy matching up against small nickel corners), if he can stay healthy, get off the line of scrimmage, play a little tougher and put it in a **** ton of time with KG, Eli and the core. He seems to have the character to do it, but will his body hold up and can he play a little tougher.

                If not, I am open to bringing a Steve Smith or even possibly a Plaxico Burress back, who in his second year back, I feel, in an offense he is comfortable in and a QB who is just heads and shoulders and toes above Sanchez, he can be a huge threat.
                My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS

                  [quote user="gmen0820"][quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="gmen0820"]Such an underrated coordinator. I had a huge post about the type of offense Gilbride runs which I can't find. Simply put, when the receivers and QB are on the same page, with all the option routes (which was a dirty word earlier in the year) the offense is almost unstoppable.

                  Watch SoundFX on www.nfl.com, Carlos Rogers, one of the BEST corners this year (on the Niners), Carlos Rogers was saying of Victor Cruz, something along the lines of "I can't stop him, I run inside he runs outside". I think film study is what sets Nicks and Cruz apart from the mighty talented Manningham. That's why a meticulous player like Steve Smith as even Plax would be a great addition to our offense.[/quote]

                  As frustrating as the Giants O can be at times, too many people just don't realize how much is going on there (something I always bring up when people are complaining about the playclock running down).

                  IMO, what makes Nicks/Cruz so damn good is that they are ALWAYS with Eli and Gilbride, studying and trying to get better.

                  Its not that I don't think 'Rio can be the same type of player... he put up some great numbers last year. However, I sometimes think the offense is just too complicated for him. IIRC, he had one of the worst Wonderlic scores ever. Maybe he should have been a DB? There's an inverse correlation between wonderlic scores and CB ability (the best CB's have the worst scores). He's definitely got the athleticism for it.

                  That's also why I'd like to see Barden get a shot as the slot guy next season. He's got a reputation as a very smart/studious player and took the time to show up to Camp Eli even though he couldn't participate.
                  [/quote]Definitely agreed on all fronts. I'd love to bring Smith back if possible.

                  I wouldn't mind seeing Barden as our slot guy next year, since I love Cruz's prospects on the outside and since Barden has stated he is comfortable in the slot (and what a weapon in the slot he can be on paper, a 6-6 guy matching up against small nickel corners), if he can stay healthy, get off the line of scrimmage, play a little tougher and put it in a **** ton of time with KG, Eli and the core. He seems to have the character to do it, but will his body hold up and can he play a little tougher.

                  If not, I am open to bringing a Steve Smith or even possibly a Plaxico Burress back, who in his second year back, I feel, in an offense he is comfortable in and a QB who is just heads and shoulders and toes above Sanchez, he can be a huge threat.[/quote]

                  I don't think Barden's toughness is really a problem. The few times he's seen the field, he played plenty tough (laying a nice block on Cruz's 99yrd TD run, or just manhandling the Pats' D on a couple crucial 3rd downs the first time the teams met). IMO, the big reason why he hasn't been in the lineup is because of what Thomas offers on ST's, and the fact that the current lineup is working so well, so why change it?

                  Also, I think JJ12 has gotten lost in the shuffle a bit, but he's a smart kid as well, and very tough (you have to be when you're going over the middle and EVERYBODY knows you ARE the offense)

                  If the front office/coaches bring Smith back, I'd welcome him back, but if they want to continue to move on, that's fine by me as well. I trust them, but I also worry that rushing back to play may have done lasting damage to his knee. I don't need to see Plax back. I don't think he's matured any since he was last here.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS

                    [quote user="gmen0820"][quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="gmen0820"]Such an underrated coordinator. I had a huge post about the type of offense Gilbride runs which I can't find. Simply put, when the receivers and QB are on the same page, with all the option routes (which was a dirty word earlier in the year) the offense is almost unstoppable.

                    Watch SoundFX on www.nfl.com, Carlos Rogers, one of the BEST corners this year (on the Niners), Carlos Rogers was saying of Victor Cruz, something along the lines of "I can't stop him, I run inside he runs outside". I think film study is what sets Nicks and Cruz apart from the mighty talented Manningham. That's why a meticulous player like Steve Smith as even Plax would be a great addition to our offense.[/quote]

                    As frustrating as the Giants O can be at times, too many people just don't realize how much is going on there (something I always bring up when people are complaining about the playclock running down).

                    IMO, what makes Nicks/Cruz so damn good is that they are ALWAYS with Eli and Gilbride, studying and trying to get better.

                    Its not that I don't think 'Rio can be the same type of player... he put up some great numbers last year. However, I sometimes think the offense is just too complicated for him. IIRC, he had one of the worst Wonderlic scores ever. Maybe he should have been a DB? There's an inverse correlation between wonderlic scores and CB ability (the best CB's have the worst scores). He's definitely got the athleticism for it.

                    That's also why I'd like to see Barden get a shot as the slot guy next season. He's got a reputation as a very smart/studious player and took the time to show up to Camp Eli even though he couldn't participate.
                    [/quote]Definitely agreed on all fronts. I'd love to bring Smith back if possible.

                    I wouldn't mind seeing Barden as our slot guy next year, since I love Cruz's prospects on the outside and since Barden has stated he is comfortable in the slot (and what a weapon in the slot he can be on paper, a 6-6 guy matching up against small nickel corners), if he can stay healthy, get off the line of scrimmage, play a little tougher and put it in a **** ton of time with KG, Eli and the core. He seems to have the character to do it, but will his body hold up and can he play a little tougher.

                    If not, I am open to bringing a Steve Smith or even possibly a Plaxico Burress back, who in his second year back, I feel, in an offense he is comfortable in and a QB who is just heads and shoulders and toes above Sanchez, he can be a huge threat.[/quote]

                    I don't think Barden's toughness is really a problem. The few times he's seen the field, he played plenty tough (laying a nice block on Cruz's 99yrd TD run, or just manhandling the Pats' D on a couple crucial 3rd downs the first time the teams met). IMO, the big reason why he hasn't been in the lineup is because of what Thomas offers on ST's, and the fact that the current lineup is working so well, so why change it?

                    Also, I think JJ12 has gotten lost in the shuffle a bit, but he's a smart kid as well, and very tough (you have to be when you're going over the middle and EVERYBODY knows you ARE the offense)

                    If the front office/coaches bring Smith back, I'd welcome him back, but if they want to continue to move on, that's fine by me as well. I trust them, but I also worry that rushing back to play may have done lasting damage to his knee. I don't need to see Plax back. I don't think he's matured any since he was last here.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS

                      the issue i've had with KG is that his option route tree is dictated by what the defense does. ultimately, the defense is making the decisions for the wr's, meaning based on the coverages the wr will run a certain route. to me, that doesnt seem like it'd work like lets say the GB pass scheme, where the routes are dictating what the defense does, and therefore there is always a route that can exploit the d.

                      i guess its basically the opposite of what KG does but of the same mentality. the games we've struggled, it seems the d has figured out how to defend the wr into a route that has a low chance of success. to me thats always been my issue, instead of formulating a game plan that puts the defense into tough decisions, we're allowing the defense to put us into tough decisions.

                      when KGs system works it looks great, but when it doesnt, the offense struggles to do anything really. and thats where i've had problems with it. not when its looking good, but when its looking bad and we dont seem to have a way to counteract what the d is doing bc the d is forcing us into difficult situations.

                      with that said i do have to eat some crow about KG bc it has looked excellent recently. but then, how much of that falls onto amazing qb play? pretty much any offensive system would look great with eli playing at the level he is now imo.

                      also, our system runs a 2 wr to 3 wr set, where as other systems like GB will use personnel to create opportunties. part of GB success is there ability to line up 4 wr's and then use those wrs to run route trees that exploit a certain defensive coverage and at that point, theres no defending it...unless the qb starts to throw inaccurate passes.

                      but at this point in eli, cruz, nicks career, i wouldnt want to change schemes or strategy bc it seems like they are clicking on all cylinders and can only get better from here with more time together where as if we were to implement a new scheme, maybe cruz or nicks or eli isnt the player they are now. granted, theres the chance they could become much better, but is it worth the risk to change now when theres the chance they could become much worse?

                      i dunno, i guess its easy to armchair coach when things are going tough and want to see how another formula would work but why discuss that now when this formula is clearly working

                      edit-an example would be NO seam route attack. they'll line up spread out, and have there wr's run seam routes attacking the safety responsibilities. whomever the safety goes to help, the qb throws it to the other wr. where as our scheme, its up to the wrs to see where the safety is going and then to adjust there route on the fly. it just seems like theres more of an opportunity for the defense to trick us into making a mistake where as i have appreciated systems like GB and NO where the wr's are running routes that force the defense into decisions and when the d makes the mistake, big play touchdowns can happen literally any single play.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS

                        I've said several times I'm not a big fan of KG. I'm not gonna completely **** on him either. He is a good OC. My problems are:

                        1. Yes the option routes the receivers run can lead to explosive play when the QB and receivers are on the same page...but that's when. If a receiver zigs when Manning thought he should zag based on the coverage it leads to easy INTs.

                        2. For players such as Manningham who as most say isn't the brightest it limits his potential.

                        3. My biggest problem is when the defense is clearly getting pressure he doesn't adjust. He doesn't shorten the routes or throw slants or anything to take the pressure off the o-line.

                        4. I wish they would remove the run out of the shotgun play on 2nd down out of the playbook. If I know its coming I'm more then sure the paid professionals know its coming.

                        Now with all that said who the **** am I to criticize KG I'm just a fan and he is the OC with the ring and his team 1 win away from another. So please understand the are just my amateur opinions.

                        Sidebar: I will give him props on thinking we had enough with our WRs and didn't need Stokley (which seems like a million years ago). I can only imagine what this team would be had he come and taken valuable snaps from Cruz.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS

                          [quote user="The Notorious B.I.G BLUE"]I've said several times I'm not a big fan of KG. I'm not gonna completely **** on him either. He is a good OC. My problems are:

                          1. Yes the option routes the receivers run can lead to explosive play when the QB and receivers are on the same page...but that's when. If a receiver zigs when Manning thought he should zag based on the coverage it leads to easy INTs.

                          2. For players such as Manningham who as most say isn't the brightest it limits his potential.

                          3. My biggest problem is when the defense is clearly getting pressure he doesn't adjust. He doesn't shorten the routes or throw slants or anything to take the pressure off the o-line.

                          4. I wish they would remove the run out of the shotgun play on 2nd down out of the playbook. If I know its coming I'm more then sure the paid professionals know its coming.

                          Now with all that said who the **** am I to criticize KG I'm just a fan and he is the OC with the ring and his team 1 win away from another. So please understand the are just my amateur opinions.

                          Sidebar: I will give him props on thinking we had enough with our WRs and didn't need Stokley (which seems like a million years ago). I can only imagine what this team would be had he come and taken valuable snaps from Cruz.[/quote]

                          agree with everything especially 1. also, that does go unnoticed around here, after the DC week one loss, everyone and i do mean everyone was talking about who we could bring in. KG was the only guy in NYC area who felt the answer was already on the team. not that he knew it would be cruz but that he knew we had several guys who had the chance to step up and fill that void.

                          and again, im just more of a fan of u dictating to the the opponent what they will do. not allowing the opponent to dictate to me what i will do.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS

                            [quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="gmen0820"]Such an underrated coordinator. I had a huge post about the type of offense Gilbride runs which I can't find. Simply put, when the receivers and QB are on the same page, with all the option routes (which was a dirty word earlier in the year) the offense is almost unstoppable.

                            Watch SoundFX on www.nfl.com, Carlos Rogers, one of the BEST corners this year (on the Niners), Carlos Rogers was saying of Victor Cruz, something along the lines of "I can't stop him, I run inside he runs outside". I think film study is what sets Nicks and Cruz apart from the mighty talented Manningham. That's why a meticulous player like Steve Smith as even Plax would be a great addition to our offense.[/quote]

                            As frustrating as the Giants O can be at times, too many people just don't realize how much is going on there (something I always bring up when people are complaining about the playclock running down).

                            IMO, what makes Nicks/Cruz so damn good is that they are ALWAYS with Eli and Gilbride, studying and trying to get better.

                            Its not that I don't think 'Rio can be the same type of player... he put up some great numbers last year. However, I sometimes think the offense is just too complicated for him. IIRC, he had one of the worst Wonderlic scores ever. Maybe he should have been a DB? There's an inverse correlation between wonderlic scores and CB ability (the best CB's have the worst scores). He's definitely got the athleticism for it.

                            That's also why I'd like to see Barden get a shot as the slot guy next season. He's got a reputation as a very smart/studious player and took the time to show up to Camp Eli even though he couldn't participate.
                            [/quote]Agreed
                            Football has been very, very good to us.
                            After losing seasons 2013-15, the giants put up 11 wins in 16.. they are on way Back
                            But for now we can console ourselves with this fact-

                            # of Super Bowl victories since 1985:

                            1-Chicago, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Seattle
                            2-Washington, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore
                            3-San Francisco, Dallas, Denver
                            4-New York Giants!!!
                            5-NE
                            Let's make it 5 in 2016 so we can be on a LINE NE again!!!

                            ***Stat provided by "Schloss22"***

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS

                              [quote user="RoanokeFan"]

                              KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS



                              "The hands clap and the huddle breaks and the receivers jog out to their
                              positions. Kevin Gilbride has
                              already relayed the play to Eli Manning, but the
                              receivers still have no idea where they’re going to go.



                              That’s part of the beauty of the Gilbride offense. Everything the receivers
                              do is based on what happens next. Is there man-to-man coverage or a zone? Which
                              way are the safeties shading? Are the corners pressing on the line or leaving a
                              cushion?




                              Then, when the ball is snapped and the defense goes in motion, everything
                              could change...again.




                              “Yeah, it’s definitely tough,” says receiver Victor Cruz. “It’s one
                              of the biggest things I had to adjust to, learning how to read coverages and
                              adjust mid-route. We had a few read-routes in college, but nothing to this
                              extent where it’s 15 yards down field and you have to make an adjustment.
                              Sometimes they may line up one way, then when the ball comes they move to
                              somewhere else. So you have to see all of that.”




                              It’s a demanding system. It can be confusing. It can be frustrating, too,
                              especially to a young player. It’s also explosive, “quarterback-friendly,”
                              potent, and the most prolific offensive system the Giants franchise has ever
                              seen.




                              “That’s the beauty of it,” says backup quarterback David Carr.
                              “When we’re rolling, it’s hard to stop.”




                              That’s what the 60-year-old Gilbride has created in his eighth season with
                              the Giants and fifth since taking over as the offensive coordinator. He’s helped
                              turn Eli Manning from an erratic, interception-prone quarterback into a
                              near-5,000-yard passer. He’s built an offensive machine that has rallied from
                              six fourth-quarter deficits this year. It can strike so quickly, the Giants
                              never feel like they’re out of a game.




                              And he’s done that with a rebuilding offensive line, the 32nd-ranked rushing
                              attack in the league, and a tight end (Jake Ballard) and star
                              receiver (Victor Cruz) who had never had a single catch in the NFL before this
                              year.




                              Manning gets all the credit, and much of it is deserved. But it’s not like
                              he’s on the field drawing up plays in the dirt.




                              “Eli’s playing so well and that’s a tribute to Kevin,” says former Giants
                              quarterbacks coach Chris Palmer, who is
                              now the offensive coordinator with the Tennessee Titans. “The guy is an
                              outstanding football coach and does a great job. What is perceived about him and
                              what is real is not necessarily one and the same. Kevin should get a lot of
                              credit for the success they’ve had this year.”




                              Ask anyone in the locker room, and Gilbride does get the credit. Tom
                              Coughlin
                              praises his ability as a teacher and his players praise his
                              patience and the way he calls a game. It drives them crazy that he’s a target
                              for angry fans, who sometimes call him “Killdrive” when games don’t go the
                              Giants’ way.

                              He’s always had a reputation problem, though, dating back to his days running
                              the run-and-shoot offense with the Houston Oilers (1990-94). Gilbride got a
                              label he couldn’t shake when former Oilers defensive coordinator Buddy
                              Ryan
                              famously called his wide-open passing attack the “chuck-and-duck” and
                              then even more famously when Rex’s dad tried to punch him on the sidelines in
                              the middle of a game.



                              Yes, Gilbride may look like a pass-happy coordinator at times, but it’s easy
                              to forget that in 2008 the Giants had the NFL’s seventh-best offense with the
                              No. 1 rushing attack. In fact, in three of his five seasons as offensive
                              coordinator, the Giants’ rushing attack was ranked higher than its passing
                              attack in the league.




                              What makes Gilbride appear pass-happy is this: He runs what everyone
                              considers a “quarterback-friendly” offense that puts a lot of responsibility on
                              the receivers and control in the quarterbacks’ hands. They throw because they
                              can. And it works.




                              “A lot is asked of the quarterback,” Carr says. “You’ve got the freedom to do
                              pretty much whatever you want. The playbook’s open to you. You’ve got to be on
                              your game. But if you are, it’s a great thing.”




                              Explained very simply, Manning has the ability to change the play to almost
                              anything in that week’s game plan, based on what he sees in the defensive
                              alignment. And when he calls a pass play, the receivers have several options to
                              change their routes on each play, depending on what the defense does. It’s
                              complicated and hard to learn, and it can be very tricky for the quarterback and
                              receiver to make sure they’re seeing exactly the same thing out of each
                              defender.




                              Because there are so many options in Gilbride’s offense, though, when it’s
                              run correctly there are more chances for it to work.




                              “You give the receivers several options to get open and when guys get open
                              you, as a quarterback, have an opportunity to throw the ball,” Palmer says.
                              “When a receiver doesn’t get open, that becomes a burden. It’s reassuring to the
                              quarterback that ‘Hey, one of these guys are going to get open.’ I would say on
                              most plays there’s going to be a guy that’s open in this offense.”




                              “I’ve been in offenses where it’s all based on progressions - 1, 2, 3, find
                              the back,” Carr adds. “There’s some of that. But we’re trying to scheme. We’re
                              trying to find the best possible play vs. that defense at that time to just gash
                              them. That’s why it works.”




                              It also works because Gilbride is an outstanding teacher and someone that, as
                              Coughlin says, can “evaluate your talent and see what they can and cannot do.”
                              He was the quarterbacks coach through the first three years of Manning’s career,
                              learned his strengths and his weaknesses well, developed a special bond with him
                              and helped him grow into the Pro Bowler he is today.

                              “Coach Gilbride and I have a very close relationship,” Manning says. “When I
                              first got here, he was the quarterbacks coach, so I got to kind of learn from
                              him, and hearing him directly and watching old film of the Oilers and different
                              things when they were running it. We think the same way on a lot of things and
                              certain looks. A lot of times he doesn’t even need to finish his sentence,
                              because I’m already on the same page.”



                              Sure, it helps that Gilbride likes to throw. A lot. He even jokes that
                              Coughlin sometimes sits in on the offensive meetings just “to make sure I don’t
                              veer too far off of the reservation and throw the ball 65 times in a game or
                              something like that.” Manning says Gilbride calls plays with “a quarterback
                              mentality.” And while he’ll go with whatever’s working, it’s obvious what he
                              prefers.




                              “If we’re not running it really well and we’re throwing it well, I’ll just go
                              up to him and say, ‘Hey, they can’t stop us throwing it. Let’s just keep
                              throwing it,’?” Manning says. “And he kind of gets a smile. I think that’s what
                              he likes to hear.”




                              That’s the way the NFL is now - a pass-first league - which makes Gilbride
                              the ideal offensive coordinator for this era. If he were 15 years younger his
                              work with the Giants might have already earned him a head coaching job
                              somewhere. He’d probably still be an attractive candidate if he hadn’t already
                              had a failed stint as a head coach with the San Diego Chargers in 1997-98, when
                              he was run out of town with a 6-16 record after he couldn’t connect with his
                              hot-headed rookie quarterback, Ryan Leaf.




                              When those 22 games are added to his image problem, it helps paint a picture
                              that belies the numbers his offenses regularly produce. It also paints a picture
                              his players believe is completely unfair.




                              “I don’t think he gets enough credit,” says guard Chris Snee. “I
                              feel like I always hear a lot of negative stuff about him. He’s the first one
                              everyone wants to blame for play calling and things like that, but I think he
                              does a great job.”




                              Some might say it’s the best job Gilbride has done in his five years running
                              the Giants’ offense.




                              Considering the players the Giants lost before the season started, the
                              injuries that forced him to reshuffle his line and play four games without his
                              starting running back, and how he helped turn a blocking tight end and an
                              unknown receiver into stars, it might be the best job he’s done in his 23 years
                              in the league.




                              “I’d rather let you answer that than me,” Gilbride says. “Let me just say
                              that I’m very proud of the guys that I work with. We started with five new guys
                              and then we had all of the injuries and the youth and the guys who haven’t
                              played and some of the things that we ask them to do. You don’t just, in our
                              offense, go out and run a 12-yard curl or a 10-yard in-cut. We ask them to read
                              a lot of things. We put a lot of pressure on receivers to see things as a
                              quarterback would. It’s very difficult as a coach to get those things
                              coordinated.




                              “So to see them grow like that - obviously, what are you? You’re a teacher.
                              When you’re a teacher and you can see your pupils getting better and feel like
                              you contributed, you’re very proud of their growth and development. So you feel,
                              ‘Maybe I helped them a little bit.’”




                              Not that he ever gets the credit for that. He’s too busy taking the blame
                              when everything doesn’t work to perfection.




                              “I think it’s just the nature of the position,” Carr says. “I think he does a
                              good job just by not paying attention to it. He’s going to be who he is.
                              Nobody’s going to change him now.”

                              [/quote]
                              He needs to come up with a game plan to hang 50 on Pats
                              Football has been very, very good to us.
                              After losing seasons 2013-15, the giants put up 11 wins in 16.. they are on way Back
                              But for now we can console ourselves with this fact-

                              # of Super Bowl victories since 1985:

                              1-Chicago, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Seattle
                              2-Washington, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore
                              3-San Francisco, Dallas, Denver
                              4-New York Giants!!!
                              5-NE
                              Let's make it 5 in 2016 so we can be on a LINE NE again!!!

                              ***Stat provided by "Schloss22"***

                              Comment

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