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PFF Ranks Eli 3rd Best QB from 2004 Draft Class......

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  • Originally posted by gumby74 View Post
    people like to fight the power.

    as a JR homer, i completely endorse it.
    Imgrate
    "Measure Twice......Cut Once"
    You couldn't be more full of **** if you were break dancing in a Port-a-Potty.......Kruunch

    Comment


    • Originally posted by IrishMike357 View Post
      I am very neutral when it comes to PFF. CGY I don't think that is what their pressure stat is. Pass Rush Productivity calculates a score to reflect the frequency of pressure generated by a defender. To get this they count sacks, hits and hurries which are all weighted (sacks worth more). Now sacks and hits are very easy to count IMO. When it comes to hurries things get much more iffy. You do not have to move the QB off his spot to get credited with a hurry, you just have to make him throw it faster than he wanted to. Some times I imagine this is easy to judge, others it is down right impossible. My other problem with there PRP stat is that it's weighted against the number of snaps a player gets on pass rush plays, which essentially penalizes a player like Vernon that took the majority of his teams snaps. Being on the field is a major factor in contributing to your teams success.
      Thank you for confirming what I think some PFF subscribers don't want to admit. Their data is flawed - not all, but some. And that's why so many people don't take them seriously.

      I've heard too many NFL players - retired and active - who openly discredit them for rating things they do not know.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Die-Hard View Post
        Who the hell watches football just for the damn numbers? Its beyond insane

        Its a GAME, folks. Its supposed to entertain you, and turning it into a personal homework assignment, and then bringing your homework here, is going to create problems for you. Thats all there is to it

        98% of these boards dont care about PFF or their formulas, and why? Because they see the game of football as entertainment, not a homework assignment
        Exactly.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by jay051 View Post
          I know that but I still find it comical that PFF ranked Eli that low in 2014 and 2015 but that's their opinion. At the end of the day most of us will still pick and choose what we like and hate from PFF.
          I like it mostly because it's something to joke about.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
            Thank you for confirming what I think some PFF subscribers don't want to admit. Their data is flawed - not all, but some. And that's why so many people don't take them seriously.

            I've heard too many NFL players - retired and active - who openly discredit them for rating things they do not know.
            problem is no one has any idea what their "data" is. At best they give a general overview of what is taken into consideration, not the specifics. Let's say they by some miracle are able to get all the key metrics right. The other problem is that i doubt they have the $$$ to afford even one high quality professional quant to come up with all these formulas. Those guys aren't cheap. Plus any quant worth his salt would be on Wall St not some hack job company for sports.
            http://boards.giants.com/showthread....est-game/page6
            http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html
            http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8732732/is-new-york-giants-qb-eli-manning-worthy-hall-fame-espn-magazine

            Entire Team Let Eli down today - NYG4l

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            • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
              What some may find interesting (but not me) is that several Eli "supporters" use PFF as proof of just how bad the Oline is yet they don't acknowledge Eli's ratings.
              lol, It's an ironing alert!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by moosedrool View Post
                Your patience with the responses you are getting is admirable.

                Please.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                  Thank you for confirming what I think some PFF subscribers don't want to admit. Their data is flawed - not all, but some. And that's why so many people don't take them seriously.

                  I've heard too many NFL players - retired and active - who openly discredit them for rating things they do not know.

                  You sir are now to be labeled an ignorant hater forever and ever amen.

                  Plus you are going to make some posters cry. I hope you're happy, mister.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                    Thank you for confirming what I think some PFF subscribers don't want to admit. Their data is flawed - not all, but some. And that's why so many people don't take them seriously.

                    I've heard too many NFL players - retired and active - who openly discredit them for rating things they do not know.
                    Yeah anyone that defends them 100% and can't admit some things don't work out really isn't being objective about it. Their stats are awesome. Player X rushed from the right side X% of the time and got X sacks, Y hits and Z hurries is awesome that you can't find anyplace else. Even though hurries is subjective it is still a nice stat line to see and know it's nothing concrete, but gives you an idea. Now saying Player X is better than Player Y based on those stats is just foolish.

                    I figured players would not like it, but read up on what Bill Belichick said about it and how impossible it is to judge a guy even on his own team when he knows the exact assignment and play called.
                    LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
                    "Next man up"

                    "I am a nasty football player, I get after people. That is something that I am very proud of. I am out there and I am physical every play, making sure that the guy across from me wants to quit." - Adam Bisnowaty

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sarcasman View Post
                      You sir are now to be labeled an ignorant hater forever and ever amen.

                      Plus you are going to make some posters cry. I hope you're happy, mister.
                      lol. Literally.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by IrishMike357 View Post
                        Yeah anyone that defends them 100% and can't admit some things don't work out really isn't being objective about it. Their stats are awesome. Player X rushed from the right side X% of the time and got X sacks, Y hits and Z hurries is awesome that you can't find anyplace else. Even though hurries is subjective it is still a nice stat line to see and know it's nothing concrete, but gives you an idea. Now saying Player X is better than Player Y based on those stats is just foolish.

                        I figured players would not like it, but read up on what Bill Belichick said about it and how impossible it is to judge a guy even on his own team when he knows the exact assignment and play called.
                        I have no issues with their collection of data, and as Sarcasm said earlier I can see that being of interest to people in the league and even the fan who enjoys that sort of thing. My derision has always been with their ratings.

                        I don't know if I mentioned it early but I could easily see Belichick as one who uses their service simply because he doesn't have a large staff.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by gumby74 View Post
                          problem is no one has any idea what their "data" is. At best they give a general overview of what is taken into consideration, not the specifics. Let's say they by some miracle are able to get all the key metrics right. The other problem is that i doubt they have the $$$ to afford even one high quality professional quant to come up with all these formulas. Those guys aren't cheap. Plus any quant worth his salt would be on Wall St not some hack job company for sports.

                          Here's how they grade a pass. Get ready cause this is good stuff.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                            Here's how they grade a pass. Get ready cause this is good stuff.

                            I hate to bury a hatchet into PFF cause I like them, but there is another major issue I have. The vast majority of ratings fall in the -1 to +1 range, with a very few +-2. I just think sports is more variable than basically "good" or "bad". Like you said though the rankings are flawed not the stats.
                            LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
                            "Next man up"

                            "I am a nasty football player, I get after people. That is something that I am very proud of. I am out there and I am physical every play, making sure that the guy across from me wants to quit." - Adam Bisnowaty

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by brad View Post
                              While I don't necessarily agree with the rankings, SBs are irrelevant when deciding which individual players are better than others. Dan Marino has no rings, do you consider Dilfer to be better than him?
                              Can't argue with this at all. However I still think Eli is better than Rivers though. Also Drew Brees who has only one ring IMO is better than all 3 qbs. I know Brees is not a popular name around here but these are my feelings and my feelings say that Brees is right under Brady and Rodgers.

                              Marino is definitely better than all of the active Qbs in todays NFL with Brady being the exception.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by IrishMike357 View Post
                                I hate to bury a hatchet into PFF cause I like them, but there is another major issue I have. The vast majority of ratings fall in the -1 to +1 range, with a very few +-2. I just think sports is more variable than basically "good" or "bad". Like you said though the rankings are flawed not the stats.
                                Looks to me the reason behind that has to do with the moment or game itself. They are using examples of a Championship game and Super Bowl to warrant the most extreme grades.

                                Based on that criteria so many great plays would not qualify as 2's simply because it happened in the regular season. Like Odell's catch for instance.

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