Phil Simms: "No, Eli Is Not One Of The Elites....."

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Originally Posted by BuffyBlueII

That play against Minnesota is the only one you are going to be able to go to. Eli Manning is way more clutch than Phil Simms ever was. It is not even a contest.

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Utter nonsense.

How's this one - on the biggest stage of them all, the man put on a clinic. If that wasn't an all-time clutch performance I don't know what is.

Let me remind you that #11 is retired along with just ten other player's jerseys. Phil Simms is an all-time great Giant.

And the few of you on here taking shots at him look down right shallow in your retaliation of of those petty words about Eli. Think about it, Phil simply stated Eli wasn't one of the greatest QB's of all time. That's what the man said, and now a few of you guys have turned that into some sort of insult and now are all offended. This is just ridiculous.

And one last thought on this 'clutch' issue. Ever consider the fact that our team finds itself in a position of having to win it in the end so often is not necessarily a positive thing?

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Originally Posted by zimonami

Well, there were warm bodies playing in those positions...lol... but, I know what you mean, and it's too true. In '86 Bavaro was our No. 1 receiver, and then our two tops WR's caught 38, 39 passes for the entire season... that's just 2+ Rec/game. Hardly above average. He never had a WR like a Cruz, Nicks, Smith who caught over 70 passes in a season. He spread the ball to 8 receivers in completing his 22 passes in SBXX!.
Someone on here, I believe either Harooni or Morehead, said that Phil was a better passer than Eli. I believe that's very true. Watch Phil's passes in the SB. All tight, hard spirals. Rarely a wounded duck like Eli throws too often. No One was better than Phil in the wind.
Phil had a good running game and a great defense to help him win games. Other than the 4th and 17 against Minny, I can't remember many games where Phil was 'Clutch", making that last needed drive in the 4th to win a game. It just never seemed like he had to, unlike Eli who has pulled games out for us on many occasions.
It took Phil many years to learn how to read defenses. He had raw talent and great toughness. Eli came into the league with the ability to read a defense, nurtured over his lifetime by his dad, but his arm isn't as good as Phil's. They were different, and hard to compare. I believe Phil would have won SBXXV if he were healthy. And, I also believe if Phil were healthy, we would have had a bigger lead and Norwood wouldn't have been kicking a FG at the end, because they would have needed TD's, not a FG to win. Going 10-0 in his starts that year certainly shouldn't be forgotten.
Two great Giant QB's, in two different era's. Don't compare them... simply appreciate them both.

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Great post Zim.

I was a big Simms fan back in the day.

Some of the older posters here probably remember that for a long, long time, alot of fans couldn't stand Simms. Prior to 1986, it was a very vocal contingent, but even after his SB win, there were still hard critics of Simms.

I've been a pretty big fan of Eli as well, and like Simms, there have been alot of fans that have been extremely critical of him during various times in his career.....since the Giants are entering their annual November swoon, the critics have re-emerged.

Personally, I think Eli is "elite", for the reasons Dan Fouts said......he's proven, on the biggest stage, that he can win.

2 SB wins v. Patriots teams lead by Brady and Belichick....... if that's not the sign of an elite QB, than this is really just semantics as far as I'm concerned.

Phil Simms was a more accurate QB...when he had protection, he was lethal. However, I think Eli recognizes things at the line of scrimmage better than Simms. Eli moves around the pocket better. Simms was like a statue back there.....when the protection was shaky, it was painful to watch.

Simms didn't have the wide receivers that Eli has.......but Simms always had a running game, and always had a brutal defense to keep him in virtually every game. And if Eli had Mark Bavaro, forget it.

One of the reasons why Eli has had to pull out so many comebacks is because his defense can't hold a lead, and his running game can't kill the clock.

If I had to pick one QB over the other, I'd pick Eli, but it wouldn't be a landslide. And yeah, I think Eli is elite.

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Originally Posted by zimonami

Well, there were warm bodies playing in those positions...lol... but, I know what you mean, and it's too true. In '86 Bavaro was our No. 1 receiver, and then our two tops WR's caught 38, 39 passes for the entire season... that's just 2+ Rec/game. Hardly above average. He never had a WR like a Cruz, Nicks, Smith who caught over 70 passes in a season. He spread the ball to 8 receivers in completing his 22 passes in SBXX!.
Someone on here, I believe either Harooni or Morehead, said that Phil was a better passer than Eli. I believe that's very true. Watch Phil's passes in the SB. All tight, hard spirals. Rarely a wounded duck like Eli throws too often. No One was better than Phil in the wind.
Phil had a good running game and a great defense to help him win games. Other than the 4th and 17 against Minny, I can't remember many games where Phil was 'Clutch", making that last needed drive in the 4th to win a game. It just never seemed like he had to, unlike Eli who has pulled games out for us on many occasions.
It took Phil many years to learn how to read defenses. He had raw talent and great toughness. Eli came into the league with the ability to read a defense, nurtured over his lifetime by his dad, but his arm isn't as good as Phil's. They were different, and hard to compare. I believe Phil would have won SBXXV if he were healthy. And, I also believe if Phil were healthy, we would have had a bigger lead and Norwood wouldn't have been kicking a FG at the end, because they would have needed TD's, not a FG to win. Going 10-0 in his starts that year certainly shouldn't be forgotten.
Two great Giant QB's, in two different era's. Don't compare them... simply appreciate them both.

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I agree not to compare them......except to say that Phil was better.

Don't know if anyone heard John Madden on Sirius NFL yesterday but he said Eli has won 2 superbowls and to many big games, Eli is an Elite Quarterback.

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Originally Posted by Morehead State

I agree not to compare them......except to say that Phil was better.

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This was my laugh of the day.

I won't choose one over the other. They have both been great Giant QB's.
But, let me throw these interesting points out, just to give you younger peeps some appreciation for Phil.
In his career, the most times Eli has ever been sacked in a season was 30.
Phil had 10 seasons where his lowest # of sacks was 34, and in 4 of those seasons he was sacked over 50 times.
The man was tough.

Only here can a thread go from whether or not Eli is elite into a Eli vs Simms debate. LOL

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Originally Posted by zimonami

This was my laugh of the day.

I won't choose one over the other. They have both been great Giant QB's.
But, let me throw these interesting points out, just to give you younger peeps some appreciation for Phil.
In his career, the most times Eli has ever been sacked in a season was 30.
Phil had 10 seasons where his lowest # of sacks was 34, and in 4 of those seasons he was sacked over 50 times.
The man was tough.

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Tough as nails and he also had personality. Nobody got in Parcells face but Simms did. I'm not saying it's good for players to flare up at the coach but sometimes I do appreciate seeing emotions.

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Originally Posted by BurnerNYG

Tough as nails and he also had personality. Nobody got in Parcells face but Simms did. I'm not saying it's good for players to flare up at the coach but sometimes I do appreciate seeing emotions.

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Phil wasn't afraid to argue with Parcell's... and he wasn't afraid to take on Ronnie Lott.
The Olineman always said no one worked harder than Phil in the weight room.
He paid his NFL dues in 14 seasons.
I believe Eli's SB performances and record of comebacks put him among today's elite, but I respect Phil having a different opinion.
And, Eli is inconsistently elite... lol... like over the last 4 games.

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Originally Posted by Joe Morrison

Don't know if anyone heard John Madden on Sirius NFL yesterday but he said Eli has won 2 superbowls and to many big games, Eli is an Elite Quarterback.

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I agree.....if Eli's not elite, then maybe we shouldn't use that term for anything, because I have no ****ing clue what it means.