Eli's been great for a while (including 2010) he's developed a connections with his receivers that's the real difference...in 2010 his receivers ran go's when they were supposed to run curls and slants when they were supposed to run out patterns...it made Eli look like he was throwing it right to defenders a lot of the time but most of it was out of his control, now the receiving corps is doing the right thing most of the time...it makes him look better...but really he's been this good for a while...probably since 2008.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morehead State
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10-09-2012, 01:58 PMDavenIII
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10-09-2012, 02:18 PMMorehead StateNot even close.Quote:
Originally Posted by DavenIII
But believe what you want. -
10-09-2012, 02:21 PMDavenIIIhe's not more accurate now then in 2008, at least not by any noticeable or substantial amount...that much is for certain, so this massive "improvement" in his ability/game whatever you want to call it, where did it come from....if not from the receivers running the right routes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morehead State
the only other answer is he's calling better audibles at the line of scrimmage, I guess that "could" be true, but I think he was calling the right ones already, I think it was the receiving corps that didn't know what they were doing, I think that because they were new at the time and he had been here for 4 years already. -
10-09-2012, 02:25 PMMorehead StateHe's better, more elusive and calmer in the pocket. His decision making is far better as a result.Quote:
Originally Posted by DavenIII
He simply has far better command in the pocket. If you don't see it that's fine. you're half an Eli Cultist anyway. But its clear to objective fans. -
10-09-2012, 02:39 PMDavenIIIWas he not "elusive" in the 2007 Superbowl run? I think he was and was before that as well...I think you see it more often now because our O-Line is worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morehead State
Is he calmer? I don't know, one thing he was always good at since 04" was standing in the pocket till the last second, another thing he was good at was getting rid of the ball when there was no play...he was good at it from the beginning and has remained good at it his whole career.
you keep going back to 2010 and the Int's....seriously though, watch those games again if you can, 8-10 of those Ints are tipped by our own receivers...another 8-10 of those ints are CLEAR miscommunications between him and a receiver....those Ints did not happen because he was "skittish" like you (and Reese) claim...he was never skittish...that is not a value/quality that exists in him or his family for that matter.
I'd venture to say that what you are saying is only clear to uniformed fans (which you obviously are not which is why it confuses me)
the fans who think what you are saying is true are the same fans who simple did not understand that Gilbrides offense is an option route offense and when it looked like Eli was throwing it directly to defenders he was actually throwing to where his receiver should have been, you already know that, so you know that it wasn't his accuracy that improved.
I don't want to Izbo you here Morehead but the statistics also back my theory over yours minus 2010 (which I've already explained...tips/miscommunications with young receivers) he's been pretty consistent with his completion %, TD/Int ratio, his yardage has been 4k+ since the 2009 season, even his QB Rate has been pretty consistent since 08.
he's been this good for 4 years at least...his receiving corps has just come into it's own recently. -
10-09-2012, 02:44 PMJPizzack
I can't believe two people just used the term "elusive" with Eli lol.....
I wouldnt say elusive, just maybe more 'aware' in general, which allows him to know when to move a little better.
I side with Daven on this....he isn't better....he just LOOKS better with what he has at his disposal -
10-09-2012, 02:47 PMMorehead StateHe sucked in 2010. Thats simple. Not just the Int's, but his general play.Quote:
Originally Posted by DavenIII
You don't have to take my word for it, listen to Tom Coughlin who said in February of 2011, that Eli needed to throw the ball away more and take more sacks. Which is exactly what he did in 2011. I also noticed for the first time in the Rams game that he started to dump the ball off better underneath.
And no....except for the bazaar helmet play, Eli was NOT elusive. Remember the "America's game" show on NFLN where Sean O'Hara said that Eli trips over his own feet and that the rest of the team was shocked that he avoided that sack in SB 42.
It simply is what it is. Last year he had a poorer O line and no running game and had great productivity. He has continued that this season. Yes the "Old Eli" does show his ugly face on a play here or there, but essentially he is a far more complete player than he was. -
10-09-2012, 03:00 PMJPizzackoh, now we're name calling?!?!?!?! =PQuote:
Originally Posted by Morehead State
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10-09-2012, 03:03 PMDavenIIIyea, you are just wrong here, Eli was a very good/bordering on great QB throughout the entire 2010 season almost all of the interceptions that happened that year can easily be attributed to either receivers running the wrong routes or the ball bouncing off their chests/facemasks, I don't say that because I'm an "eli cultist" I say that because you can SEE that by watching the games....go through and count how many passes hit our receivers before being intercepted and also count how many interceptions were thrown to an area on the field where none of our receivers were even remotely close to....those ones...yeah I'm not blaming them on Eli and those ones equate to 16-20 of the ints, if everything was exactly the same now but in 2010 he went 31TD's and 7 Int's you wouldn't be saying any of the things you are saying about his improvement.....but because his receivers made mistake in 2010 you see some sort of "phantom" improvement even though he's been playing as good as he played in 2011 and this year the last 4 or 5 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morehead State
if you ask him or his coaches or the players they are all going to say the stock answer (yes he's improved) because they are supposed to improve every year...and he does...but there is no drastic difference between the 2011 Eli Manning and the 2010 Eli Manning, the drastic changed lies mostly in the receiving corps becoming suitable.
I find it humorous that you call me an "Eli Cultist" when really what I'm doing is taking credit AWAY from Eli and giving it to Nicks/Cruz and the receiving corps. -
10-09-2012, 03:06 PMKase-1I was at the wrong Wendys on 17 talking to a bunch of people who didnt look familiar and I just thought they read THEE Thread and joined in on the party until I called Lando and talked to you and found out I was at the wrong Wendys, LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by MattMeyerBud