THEE NYG SWAG THREAD

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Originally Posted by DavenIII

I believe he took more sacks and that is an improvement (but it goes against Moreheads "elusiveness" comment) and perhaps he did throw a few more balls away...(i'd like to see the stat though) but I believe the maintained comp pct just comes from less dropped passes and more correctly run routes by his receives.I'm not saying Eli manning doesn't get better every year....mostly what I'm saying is that the "dramatic" improvement from 2010 to 2011 wasn't his...he made his own little adjustments and tweaks...but he was "already" very good in 2010, the "dramatic" improvement came from new receivers coming into their own and actually doing the right things and executing correctly...little tweaks don't make dramatic changes, learning a playbook, getting used to the "speed of the game" the type of improvements 1st year to 2nd year players make...that's whats responsible for dramatic improvement.

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He threw the ball much better when he wasn't taking a sack or throwing it away. All but on of those tipped ints in 2010 was a bad throw. the more often you throw it poorly, the greater chance you have for bad things to happen to you and that's exactly what happened.

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Originally Posted by Imgrate

that doesn't really mean much

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It does to MH.

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Originally Posted by Imgrate

He threw the ball much better when he wasn't taking a sack or throwing it away. All but on of those tipped ints in 2010 was a bad throw. the more often you throw it poorly, the greater chance you have for bad things to happen to you and that's exactly what happened.

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No, this is where we disagree, I honestly don't think his accuracy increased any noticeable amount, "maybe" he was making better decisions, "maybe" he was more mobile....maybe.

But his accuracy, no, that didn't increase substantially, he was still throwing the same amount of ducks and still throwing the same tight passes as 2010 in 2011...the only difference was when his receiver was supposed to run an out...they ran an out in 2011 in 2010 the ran an in and the ball was intercepted.

That and they didn't decide to play volleyball instead of football with his passes.

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Originally Posted by DavenIII

No, this is where we disagree, I honestly don't think his "accuracy" increased any noticeable amount, "maybe" he was making better decisions, Maybe he was more mobile....maybe.But his accuracy, no, that didn't increase, he was still throwing exactly the same amount of ducks and still throwing the same tight passes as 2010 in 2011...the only difference was when his receiver was supposed to run an out...they ran an out in 2011 in 2010 the ran an in and the ball was intercepted.

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there were a total of what, 2?ints that were communication errors on 2010? one of which was the gb game where nicks broke towards empty field and eli threw it to triple coverage

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Originally Posted by Imgrate

there were a total of what, 2?ints that were communication errors on 2010? one of which was the gb game where nicks broke towards empty field and eli threw it to triple coverage

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No, more like 6 from miscommunications, and that's only the blatantly obvious ones, there were only like 6-8 Ints the whole year that were questionable passes...that's why I keep saying he was good in 2010...it's just that his receivers shaped up in 2011.

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Originally Posted by DavenIII

No, this is where we disagree, I honestly don't think his accuracy increased any noticeable amount, "maybe" he was making better decisions, "maybe" he was more mobile....maybe.

But his accuracy, no, that didn't increase substantially, he was still throwing the same amount of ducks and still throwing the same tight passes as 2010 in 2011...the only difference was when his receiver was supposed to run an out...they ran an out in 2011 in 2010 the ran an in and the ball was intercepted.

That and they didn't decide to play volleyball instead of football with his passes.

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Personally, I don't think Eli's accuracy improved that much at all. To me the knocks on Eli's accuracy early on were way overblown. I think his accuracy has been consistently good for several years. (with the exception of his tendency to get hyped up early in game in 2010 and make a few high throws)

His pocket presence and especially his calmness in the pocket is what got dramatically better in 2011. That seems to have continued this season as well.

You said that "I see what I want to see" with Eli. What I wanted to see from Eli was a calm, confident field general last year and thats exactly what I got.

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Originally Posted by DavenIII

No, more like 6 from miscommunications, and that's only the blatantly obvious ones, there were only like 6-8 Ints the whole year that were questionable passes...that's why I keep saying he was good in 2010...it's just that his receivers shaped up in 2011.

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Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham were the leading WR duo in the NFL in 2010 with 20 TD's. How much did you want them to "shape up"? How many friggin Yac's did they have in 2010? They were great. Eli throws a 5 yard out at Dallas and Manningham makes a great run down the sidelines for a TD. That stuff happened all the time in 2010.
The great play of his WR's that year padded Eli's stats.

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Originally Posted by Morehead State

Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham were the leading WR duo in the NFL in 2010 with 20 TD's. How much did you want them to "shape up"? How many friggin Yac's did they have in 2010? They were great. Eli throws a 5 yard out at Dallas and Manningham makes a great run down the sidelines for a TD. That stuff happened all the time in 2010.
The great play of his WR's that year padded Eli's stats.

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They were good when they caught the ball no doubt, they got open no doubt...but they didn't know the audibles, they couldn't read the defense the way Eli could...so when Eli saw Blitz and they were supposed to also see blitz and change their routes accordingly .... they did not do it Morehead...now they do it, they recognize defenses last year and this year...before that they didn't so many many many times they ran the wrong routes causing Eli to throw where they were supposed to be...but they were not there....creating in my opinion, the MAJORITY of Eli's int's in 2010...not him throwing into triple coverage...not him making mistakes...it was the receivers making mistakes.

your entire "eli improvement" argument hinges on him throwing too many Int's in 2010...but I'm sorry, those int's are not on him...some are yes...but the majority of his int's in 2010 were not his fault....and they weren't "not his fault" like so many other QB's in the NFL....no he was dealing with rookies who simply did not know what they were doing yet...they had physical ability but they were not their yet...they got there in 2011 and are here now...that's why Eli is doing better..not because of tweaks he made to his game...but because his receivers have blossomed.

I've always thought Eli was great you know that...I'd love to attribute his recent statistical success to improvements he made but it just doesn't make any sense to....and frankly, it's common sense that it's not him but his receivers that are the major factor.

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Originally Posted by DavenIII

No, more like 6 from miscommunications, and that's only the blatantly obvious ones, there were only like 6-8 Ints the whole year that were questionable passes...that's why I keep saying he was good in 2010...it's just that his receivers shaped up in 2011.

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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2tUsUoMIHZc

speaking of seeing what you want to see, please try and count 6

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Originally Posted by Morehead State

You said that "I see what I want to see" with Eli. What I wanted to see from Eli was a calm, confident field general last year and thats exactly what I got.

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you should have seen that as well in 2010...because it was there then, the problem in 2010 is that his troops didn't know their shields from their swords, they made due with their physical attributes and STILL did well, but in 2011 and now they've been through training, and now have both their physical attributes PLUS their knowledge of the game.