Oh I agree with this.
Originally Posted by jomo
I'm just saying if you want to rag on Reese for whatever late picks he hasent had, you also have to give credit to him for finding Cruz and Hyno and Paysinger and all of them.
Can't only have it go one way
Well, not only have I not ever ragged on JR I have been a huge supporter. I have recently started to feel that I need to analyze the long term impact of his picks in relation to his peers. I have given him a free pass for 7 years and need to be more rigorous in that analysis. At this point, I have no firm opinion on Reese (other than a favorable inclination) until I have data to support my feelings going forward.
Originally Posted by slipknottin
a lot of those busts were injury bug hits, they shouldn't count. plus he found others like cruz as mentioned.
where he did fail and obviously fail miserably is addressing the o-line. that is undisputable.
I think that JR's overall drafting has been good and especially since he's gotten us impressive skill players (which are the hardest to get and the most valuable) with those picks.
Ross (starter) was a key factor in '07 and was good in '11. Smith (starter) was excellent before basically a career-ending injury. Jay Alford - injury.
Phillips (starter) was not even close to being a bust. He was EXCELLENT his rookie year and has been at least good/very good his other years when he wasn't actually injured. Samething with TT (starter). MM was an excellent # 3 WR for us and I would have been happy to still have him on the team if we could have afforded him. He was a KEY component in '11, caught a few TD passes in that post season, and made one of the greatest SB catches of all time.
Nicks (starter) has been a top NFL WR during part of his career when not injured. Sorry that he hasn't done much, but look at the o-line and Eli running for his life. Even Cruz acknowledges that Nicks is the better of the two. Beatty (starter) has been pretty good when healthy. Andre Brown was supposed to be the # 2 of a supposed 2-headed best this year before -- surprise, surprise -- succumbing to injury.
JPP showed development in '10 and carried the DE's in '11 until Tuck and Osi decided to start showing up in game # 15 (Jets game). Since that time he's been dealing with a back injury that he has not had surgery on, but probably needs. I'm totally sold on JPP...when healthy.
Lets not forget Boss in '07 (priced himself out of our FO's range and was shot anyway due to injuries/concussions). And who invited Cruz to camp? Cruz is probably the hidden gem of ALL hidden gems over the past 10 years.
The common theme above is injuries. Injuries, injuries, injuries. I do believe that the Giants need different conditioning coaches, but it's mostly that their players are ALWAYS injured, and often seriously. I think that JR has done a fine job of drafting otherwise.
Criticisms (obvious ones at that) of JR: 1) He needs a new set of eyes evaluating o-line talent and he shouldn't have waited so long to start rebuilding it. 2) He needs to pay real attention to the LB corp because what he's done there is just absolutely inexecusable.
These are a handful of players in a large bunch. Still not enough for depth and where are they now.
I spent a lot of time earlier in this thread defending JR, but on second thought you're right. I don't think he's drafted that poorly, but where he's really failed is in FA. Accorsi had done a solid job bringing in solid veterans or players in their prime who were not budget-busting such as Plax, Pierce and O'Hara to name just a few.
JR has been horrible at FA signings.
One could argue that Reese has been handicapped by his success. When you win two superbowls in five years your players want to get paid and that's left Reese with little cap space to sign quality FA's.
Originally Posted by JJC7301