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  1. #51
    All-Pro gmen0820's Avatar
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    Re: DE in the First?

    [quote user="Kruunch"]
    The 3rd pass rusher didn't seem to help when it was Tuck, Tolly and JPP.

    [/quote]He did say legit pass rusher in all fairness.

  2. #52

    Re: DE in the First?

    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="LT_was_good"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="gmen0820"][quote user="Kruunch"]For as good as JPP was, he disappeared when double teamed [/quote]When did that happen? Because there are only 4 games in the reg. season where he didn't register a sack.[/quote]

    I should amend that actually ... when Osi wasn't there our Dline disappeared.

    JPP did make contributions, even when the rest of our Dline didn't. But as shown ... we need more then just JPP playing well.[/quote]

    When JPP was the only healthy DE of the Big 3, he struggled more, although it seemed like there were games that the other 10 guys didn't show up and JPP still played well.
    [/quote]

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6392/gamelog

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/...Ar4KANitX.uLYF

    actually, JPP had his best games when Osi wasn't there
    [/quote]

    Heh wonder how much of that was JPP getting doubled by the end of the season.
    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

  3. #53

    Re: DE in the First?

    [quote user="gmen0820"][quote user="Kruunch"]
    The 3rd pass rusher didn't seem to help when it was Tuck, Tolly and JPP.

    [/quote]He did say legit pass rusher in all fairness.[/quote]

    To your point then, does it matter?
    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

  4. #54
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Re: DE in the First?

    [quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Kruunch"]I agree he's worth a 2nd round offer and I also think we'll get one.

    I'm just not sure we'll take it.

    For as good as JPP was, he disappeared when double teamed and our DLine didn't shine until Osi came back AND Tuck started playing like Tuck.[/quote]

    well now thats where the debate comes in...

    first - if we can't come to terms with an extension for Osi then I think hes gone for a second rounder... it all depends if we can work something out for him

    second was the emergence of our defense due to Osi being back, was it due to tuck being tuck, or was it due to just having a 3rd pass rushing DE period.

    PLUS, you have to expect JPP will improve even more for next year
    [/quote]

    The DLine started to revive once Osi was back. Tuck came alive after that (also after being called out for continually missing practices).

    The 3rd pass rusher didn't seem to help when it was Tuck, Tolly and JPP.

    If JPP gets much better, he'll be able to sack the QB by telekinesis.

    Here's why I don't think they trade Osi ... they don't have the depth to. They're possibly losing Tolly this year and the pickings are slim for a 1st year play making DE in the draft (unless we trade up which we virtually never do).

    So a second round pick doesn't do us much good in that regard if you subscribe to the idea that the DE is the most valued position on the Giants.

    Having said that, I could see a way of letting Osi go, getting a second round pick AND grabbing Mario Williams in Free Agency by mortgaging the future but with the idea I'm only going to keep Mario for a year or two.

    Having said all that, I'm a Pastry Chef so what the **** do I know?![/quote]

    well first off let me say that i am a HUUUGE Tolly fan, but I wouldn't consider him a legit player. My point is was it Osi or could having a guy like an Abraham or some rookie first round talent of done a similiar job.

    I just don't think it would be in the Giants best interest to keep Osi around this year with the cap and knowing the fact taht you are going to lose him the following year.

    lol we could all dream about Mario - but don't dream too hard.... i really think getting aguy like Abraham is the perfect solution to the situation.

    If we let Osi go, we are going for a DE early - that much i would bet on. I could even see us moving up to make a move with the extra pick. Lock up a talent for the next 4-5 years at a cheaper price
    Fear the name, appreciate the game

  5. #55
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Re: DE in the First?

    [quote user="gmen0820"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]was it OSI or just having a third legit pass rusher
    [/quote]Well what's the difference?

    Osi is a legit third pass rusher, and at his salary, isn't easily found (unless your on a rookie deal, of course).[/quote]

    well are we going to play for next year or are we a team that worries about not only next year but the next two years.

    The difference is if it was just having the legit pass rusher and Osi wouldn't agree to what we were offering we could either make a signing like a John Abraham for whatever we were offering Osi or using a high pick.....

    we're pretty good at picking DEs early
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  6. #56
    All-Pro gmen0820's Avatar
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    Re: DE in the First?

    [quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="gmen0820"][quote user="Kruunch"]
    The 3rd pass rusher didn't seem to help when it was Tuck, Tolly and JPP.

    [/quote]He did say legit pass rusher in all fairness.[/quote]

    To your point then, does it matter?[/quote]Yes, Tolly and Osi don't compare. Osi is legit and Tolly isn't.

    That is what you are arguing though isn't it, that Osi is a legit pass rusher?

  7. #57
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Re: DE in the First?

    [quote user="gmen0820"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="gmen0820"][quote user="Kruunch"]
    The 3rd pass rusher didn't seem to help when it was Tuck, Tolly and JPP.

    [/quote]He did say legit pass rusher in all fairness.[/quote]

    To your point then, does it matter?[/quote]Yes, Tolly and Osi don't compare. Osi is legit and Tolly isn't.

    That is what you are arguing though isn't it, that Osi is a legit pass rusher?[/quote]

    i actually didn't say legit in the first post he responded to, thats where the confusion is. But yes I mean a third legit pass rusher
    Fear the name, appreciate the game

  8. #58

    Re: DE in the First?

    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Kruunch"]I agree he's worth a 2nd round offer and I also think we'll get one.

    I'm just not sure we'll take it.

    For as good as JPP was, he disappeared when double teamed and our DLine didn't shine until Osi came back AND Tuck started playing like Tuck.[/quote]

    well now thats where the debate comes in...

    first - if we can't come to terms with an extension for Osi then I think hes gone for a second rounder... it all depends if we can work something out for him

    second was the emergence of our defense due to Osi being back, was it due to tuck being tuck, or was it due to just having a 3rd pass rushing DE period.

    PLUS, you have to expect JPP will improve even more for next year
    [/quote]

    The DLine started to revive once Osi was back. Tuck came alive after that (also after being called out for continually missing practices).

    The 3rd pass rusher didn't seem to help when it was Tuck, Tolly and JPP.

    If JPP gets much better, he'll be able to sack the QB by telekinesis.

    Here's why I don't think they trade Osi ... they don't have the depth to. They're possibly losing Tolly this year and the pickings are slim for a 1st year play making DE in the draft (unless we trade up which we virtually never do).

    So a second round pick doesn't do us much good in that regard if you subscribe to the idea that the DE is the most valued position on the Giants.

    Having said that, I could see a way of letting Osi go, getting a second round pick AND grabbing Mario Williams in Free Agency by mortgaging the future but with the idea I'm only going to keep Mario for a year or two.

    Having said all that, I'm a Pastry Chef so what the **** do I know?![/quote]

    well first off let me say that i am a HUUUGE Tolly fan, but I wouldn't consider him a legit player. My point is was it Osi or could having a guy like an Abraham or some rookie first round talent of done a similiar job.

    I just don't think it would be in the Giants best interest to keep Osi around this year with the cap and knowing the fact taht you are going to lose him the following year.

    lol we could all dream about Mario - but don't dream too hard.... i really think getting* aguy like Abraham is the perfect solution to the situation.

    If we let Osi go, we are going for a DE early - that much i would bet on. I could even see us moving up to make a move with the extra pick.* Lock up a talent for the next 4-5 years at a cheaper price
    [/quote]

    Ok well Abraham is not just a "legit" pass rusher. He's a legit elite pass rusher. World of difference.

    If you could guarantee me a draft choice that would give me that production, I would tyrade for it in an instant (anyone would).

    And Osi costs a TON less then Abraham is going to (part of Osi's contention).

    All things being equal ... I'd rather keep Osi and extend him. He's proven ... he's good ... and I think he has another 3-4 years left in the tank.

    I think that gives you your biggest bang for the buck.

    If you're losing Osi *this* year, then you almost have to draft a DE in the first which means you'll probably end up trading up for one or taking a chance on a guy like Andre Branch (blech).

    Now if something amazing falls to us, you might see us trade Osi after the draft possibly.
    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

  9. #59

    Re: DE in the First?

    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="gmen0820"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="gmen0820"][quote user="Kruunch"]
    The 3rd pass rusher didn't seem to help when it was Tuck, Tolly and JPP.

    [/quote]He did say legit pass rusher in all fairness.[/quote]

    To your point then, does it matter?[/quote]Yes, Tolly and Osi don't compare. Osi is legit and Tolly isn't.

    That is what you are arguing though isn't it, that Osi is a legit pass rusher?[/quote]

    i actually didn't say legit in the first post he responded to, thats where the confusion is.* But yes I mean a third legit pass rusher
    [/quote]

    Ok find me a legit pass rusher that makes less then even twice what Osi will make in 2012 that we could get in FA.
    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

  10. #60
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Re: DE in the First?

    [quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Kruunch"]I agree he's worth a 2nd round offer and I also think we'll get one.

    I'm just not sure we'll take it.

    For as good as JPP was, he disappeared when double teamed and our DLine didn't shine until Osi came back AND Tuck started playing like Tuck.[/quote]

    well now thats where the debate comes in...

    first - if we can't come to terms with an extension for Osi then I think hes gone for a second rounder... it all depends if we can work something out for him

    second was the emergence of our defense due to Osi being back, was it due to tuck being tuck, or was it due to just having a 3rd pass rushing DE period.

    PLUS, you have to expect JPP will improve even more for next year
    [/quote]

    The DLine started to revive once Osi was back. Tuck came alive after that (also after being called out for continually missing practices).

    The 3rd pass rusher didn't seem to help when it was Tuck, Tolly and JPP.

    If JPP gets much better, he'll be able to sack the QB by telekinesis.

    Here's why I don't think they trade Osi ... they don't have the depth to. They're possibly losing Tolly this year and the pickings are slim for a 1st year play making DE in the draft (unless we trade up which we virtually never do).

    So a second round pick doesn't do us much good in that regard if you subscribe to the idea that the DE is the most valued position on the Giants.

    Having said that, I could see a way of letting Osi go, getting a second round pick AND grabbing Mario Williams in Free Agency by mortgaging the future but with the idea I'm only going to keep Mario for a year or two.

    Having said all that, I'm a Pastry Chef so what the **** do I know?![/quote]

    well first off let me say that i am a HUUUGE Tolly fan, but I wouldn't consider him a legit player. My point is was it Osi or could having a guy like an Abraham or some rookie first round talent of done a similiar job.

    I just don't think it would be in the Giants best interest to keep Osi around this year with the cap and knowing the fact taht you are going to lose him the following year.

    lol we could all dream about Mario - but don't dream too hard.... i really think getting aguy like Abraham is the perfect solution to the situation.

    If we let Osi go, we are going for a DE early - that much i would bet on. I could even see us moving up to make a move with the extra pick. Lock up a talent for the next 4-5 years at a cheaper price
    [/quote]

    Ok well Abraham is not just a "legit" pass rusher. He's a legit elite pass rusher. World of difference.

    If you could guarantee me a draft choice that would give me that production, I would tyrade for it in an instant (anyone would).

    And Osi costs a TON less then Abraham is going to (part of Osi's contention).

    All things being equal ... I'd rather keep Osi and extend him. He's proven ... he's good ... and I think he has another 3-4 years left in the tank.

    I think that gives you your biggest bang for the buck.

    If you're losing Osi *this* year, then you almost have to draft a DE in the first which means you'll probably end up trading up for one or taking a chance on a guy like Andre Branch (blech).

    Now if something amazing falls to us, you might see us trade Osi after the draft possibly.[/quote]

    Well he use to be, but hes going to be 34 next season. Hes no spring chicken. hes had 28 sacks in the past 3 years which is damn good. Osi would warrant a bigger contract than what Abraham would get no doubt. SO if Osi doesn't like what we're offering I dont think it would be completely off base to suggest that we couldn't get Abraham for something similiar. Mind you hes 34 years old.

    Well you would have to think that if Reees would be willing to give up Osi, he has somebody in mind somewhere. Have to go with our past experiences of drafting DEs and say that you'd feel good about whoever we brought in.....

    or hell, maybe we could make the official switch with Kiwi back like u said before and just extend him. If we move him back then we wouldn't have to go DE.

    Extending Osi is the goal, but doing it affordably is also the goal. We have alot of other contracts coming up in the next 2 years that we HAVE TO account for, especially with some members of the oline getting old.


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