1. #51901
    Moderator AsianGiant's Avatar
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    Re: Asian giant for HC

    [quote user="jmike"][quote user="zimonami"]

    good stuff in here lately... worthy discussing</p>


    I was in catholic Grammar school when 'under' God' was introduced. They just advised us that we'd be including those words from then on. No further discussion was had. </p>


    When I went to High School, first day we were told that we'd say the P of A and that if you didn't want to say the words 'under God' you were welcome to omit those words. No further discussion was had. I noticed a few kids didn't include the words. It was no big deal and never was considered a problem, and everyone's choice of words was respected.</p>


    So, where's the problem? Do, or don't... but don't exclude the words for those who want them there.</p>[/quote]

    The problem is, that it seems in order to be part of the USA, you need to believe in god.
    [/quote]


    Actually, we all believe in God if we are religious, we just call him something different. Personally, I don't say, "God bless you", I say, "Bless you". It's just a decision I made myself.

    I believe in a superior being, not specifically "God". I celebrate Xmas because I was brought up in it. I used to go to church but stopped in my early teens.

    My take on what is going on is that other religions are looked upon as underdogs, so specific groups seem to go out of their way to allow those groups to address their issues/concerns. But turn a blind eye to Christianity.

    Now I could be way off, but that's how I view what's going on. This past Xmas, retail stores finally started going back to selling Xmas trees, not Holiday trees, because the political correctness was going too far and people got sick and tired of it...








  2. #51902
    All-Pro giantyankee1976's Avatar
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    Re: Asian giant for HC

    [quote user="mjg407"]Anyone else worried about what is going on in the
    middle east? Bahrain, Yemen, Libya? Bahrain is the most westernized
    of the Arab states, Yemen is ripe for an AQ takeover. Not sure if this
    bodes well for us and what is the underlying connection between them
    all.
    [/quote]



    ...extremely worried.



    Egypt was like the "first domino" in my eyes...very scary what's going on...



    And did you guys/ gals hear what happened to that (lady) reporter?



    That was pure filth.

    post edit
    [link]http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/41625503/ns/today-entertainment/?GT1=43001[/link]
    She is reunited with hubby and kids, I am glad she "seems well."


    [quote user="zimonami"]

    I don't think I agree with you, jmike. Like I said before... 1960, 1st yr of Public HS... we were told to say the words, or not, as your choice. Nobody made a fuss. No one bothered the kids that didn't include the words and no one bothered the ones that did... and life went on with everyone recognizing that there were Christians, Jews, Atheists, etc. among us, and you were free to do as you wanted.</p>


    Now, just so happens that at the birth of this nation all the founding fathers, mostly Christians, agreed that belief in God was an essential part of our freedom and tenets, and God was ubiquitously included in most documents. However, there was always the separate Amendment that allowed freedom of religion. When I grew up it was understood that many had no religion and no belief in God... and that was their 'religious right'... to practice no religion. They were respected, their houses weren't bombed, they weren't tarred and feathered,and they weren't forced to ride in the back of the bus, like blacks were... most of whom were Christians. This country, in my 64 years, always respected the right of atheists to be atheists. Many of my best friends do not believe in God, and we respect each other's beliefs because our friendship is based on other common factors. But, now some non-believers want reference to God removed from our civil documents and civil buildings. No one ever forced any non-believer to believe, or made any issue of it. So, now, why should those same non-believers wish to backtrack and exclude the words relating to God just because they are there and they are suddenly insulted.... for the majority that do adhere to belief in God. Can't it be recognized and accepted by non believers that this country was founded on the Christian-Judeo belief that there is a God. Accept it, respect it, and feel free to not believe in God, as your right, and justhope they respect your non-belief, and move on to other issues like the poor, and racial profiling and hatred, and dozens of other issues that truly impact and divide people.</p>


    jmike... did you ever have a friend that, once they found out that you didn't believe in God, broke your friendship for that reason? If you did, I'm sorry for that. Yet, there are people who won't accept a friend because of their color, or because they are in a lowereconomic stature. </p>[/quote]

    co-signed, well wrote Zim !!!


    NFL Championships : 1927 1934 1938 1956 Super Bowl Champions: XXI XXV XLII XLVI

  3. #51903
    Veteran
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    Re: Asian giant for HC

    [quote user="zimonami"][quote user="jmike"][quote user="zimonami"]


    good stuff in here lately... worthy discussing</p>


    I was in catholic Grammar school when 'under' God' was introduced. They just advised us that we'd be including those words from then on. No further discussion was had. </p>


    When I went to High School, first day we were told that we'd say the P of A and that if you didn't want to say the words 'under God' you were welcome to omit those words. No further discussion was had. I noticed a few kids didn't include the words. It was no big deal and never was considered a problem, and everyone's choice of words was respected.</p>


    So, where's the problem? Do, or don't... but don't exclude the words for those who want them there.</p>


    [/quote]

    The problem is, that it seems in order to be part of the USA, you need to believe in god.
    [/quote]</p>


    I don't think I agree with you, jmike. Like I said before... 1960, 1st yr of Public HS... we were told to say the words, or not, as your choice. Nobody made a fuss. No one bothered the kids that didn't include the words and no one bothered the ones that did... and life went on with everyone recognizing that there were Christians, Jews, Atheists, etc. among us, and you were free to do as you wanted.</p>


    Now, just so happens that at the birth of this nation all the founding fathers, mostly Christians, agreed that belief in God was an essential part of our freedom and tenets, and God was ubiquitously included in most documents. However, there was always the separate Amendment that allowed freedom of religion. When I grew up it was understood that many had no religion and no belief in God... and that was their 'religious right'... to practice no religion. They were respected, their houses weren't bombed, they weren't tarred and feathered,and they weren't forced to ride in the back of the bus, like blacks were... most of whom were Christians. This country, in my 64 years, always respected the right of atheists to be atheists. Many of my best friends do not believe in God, and we respect each other's beliefs because our friendship is based on other common factors. But, now some non-believers want reference to God removed from our civil documents and civil buildings. No one ever forced any non-believer to believe, or made any issue of it. So, now, why should those same non-believers wish to backtrack and exclude the words relating to God just because they are there and they are suddenly insulted.... for the majority that do adhere to belief in God. Can't it be recognized and accepted by non believers that this country was founded on the Christian-Judeo belief that there is a God. Accept it, respect it, and feel free to not believe in God, as your right, and justhope they respect your non-belief, and move on to other issues like the poor, and racial profiling and hatred, and dozens of other issues that truly impact and divide people.</p>


    jmike... did you ever have a friend that, once they found out that you didn't believe in God, broke your friendship for that reason? If you did, I'm sorry for that. Yet, there are people who won't accept a friend because of their color, or because they are in a lowereconomic stature. </p>[/quote]

    Not saying the words doesn't work. By putting it into the pledge of allegience, it says that in order to pledge allegience to the country of your choice you must believe in god. Therby forcing you to believe.

    Never said I didn't believe in god.

  4. #51904

    Re: Asian giant for HC

    [quote user="jmike"][quote user="zimonami"][quote user="jmike"][quote user="zimonami"]


    good stuff in here lately... worthy discussing</P>


    I was in catholic Grammar school when 'under' God' was introduced. They just advised us that we'd be including those words from then on. No further discussion was had. </P>


    When I went to High School, first day we were told that we'd say the P of A and that if you didn't want to say the words 'under God' you were welcome to omit those words. No further discussion was had. I noticed a few kids didn't include the words. It was no big deal and never was considered a problem, and everyone's choice of words was respected.</P>


    So, where's the problem? Do, or don't... but don't exclude the words for those who want them there.</P>


    [/quote]

    The problem is, that it seems in order to be part of the USA, you need to believe in god.
    [/quote]</P>


    I don't think I agree with you, jmike. Like I said before... 1960, 1st yr of Public HS... we were told to say the words, or not, as your choice. Nobody made a fuss. No one bothered the kids that didn't include the words and no one bothered the ones that did... and life went on with everyone recognizing that there were Christians, Jews, Atheists, etc. among us, and you were free to do as you wanted.</P>


    Now, just so happens that at the birth of this nation all the founding fathers, mostly Christians, agreed that belief in God was an essential part of our freedom and tenets, and God was ubiquitously included in most documents. However, there was always the separate Amendment that allowed freedom of religion. When I grew up it was understood that many had no religion and no belief in God... and that was their 'religious right'... to practice no religion. They were respected, their houses weren't bombed, they weren't tarred and feathered,and they weren't forced to ride in the back of the bus, like blacks were... most of whom were Christians. This country, in my 64 years, always respected the right of atheists to be atheists. Many of my best friends do not believe in God, and we respect each other's beliefs because our friendship is based on other common factors. But, now some non-believers want reference to God removed from our civil documents and civil buildings. No one ever forced any non-believer to believe, or made any issue of it. So, now, why should those same non-believers wish to backtrack and exclude the words relating to God just because they are there and they are suddenly insulted.... for the majority that do adhere to belief in God. Can't it be recognized and accepted by non believers that this country was founded on the Christian-Judeo belief that there is a God. Accept it, respect it, and feel free to not believe in God, as your right, and justhope they respect your non-belief, and move on to other issues like the poor, and racial profiling and hatred, and dozens of other issues that truly impact and divide people.</P>


    jmike... did you ever have a friend that, once they found out that you didn't believe in God, broke your friendship for that reason? If you did, I'm sorry for that. Yet, there are people who won't accept a friend because of their color, or because they are in a lowereconomic stature. </P>


    [/quote]

    Not saying the words doesn't work. By putting it into the pledge of allegience, it says that in order to pledge allegience to the country of your choice you must believe in god. Therby forcing you to believe.

    Never said I didn't believe in god.
    [/quote]</P>


    My apologies, jmike, for my presumption.</P>


    I still can't agree... and it is, perhaps, just a matter of us living different experiences. When some of my friends didn't say the words, 'under God', it never struck me that they were any less American than me. Just that they didn't believe in God, and I did. I would still trust my back to them in a foxhole... both good Americans, fighting for America.... just with 2 different ideas about what awaited us if we died right there. That difference in beliefs doesn't define your love for your country</P>

  5. #51905
    Veteran
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    Re: Asian giant for HC

    [quote user="zimonami"][quote user="jmike"][quote user="zimonami"][quote user="jmike"][quote user="zimonami"]


    good stuff in here lately... worthy discussing</p>


    I was in catholic Grammar school when 'under' God' was introduced. They just advised us that we'd be including those words from then on. No further discussion was had. </p>


    When I went to High School, first day we were told that we'd say the P of A and that if you didn't want to say the words 'under God' you were welcome to omit those words. No further discussion was had. I noticed a few kids didn't include the words. It was no big deal and never was considered a problem, and everyone's choice of words was respected.</p>


    So, where's the problem? Do, or don't... but don't exclude the words for those who want them there.</p>


    [/quote]

    The problem is, that it seems in order to be part of the USA, you need to believe in god.
    [/quote]</p>


    I don't think I agree with you, jmike. Like I said before... 1960, 1st yr of Public HS... we were told to say the words, or not, as your choice. Nobody made a fuss. No one bothered the kids that didn't include the words and no one bothered the ones that did... and life went on with everyone recognizing that there were Christians, Jews, Atheists, etc. among us, and you were free to do as you wanted.</p>


    Now, just so happens that at the birth of this nation all the founding fathers, mostly Christians, agreed that belief in God was an essential part of our freedom and tenets, and God was ubiquitously included in most documents. However, there was always the separate Amendment that allowed freedom of religion. When I grew up it was understood that many had no religion and no belief in God... and that was their 'religious right'... to practice no religion. They were respected, their houses weren't bombed, they weren't tarred and feathered,and they weren't forced to ride in the back of the bus, like blacks were... most of whom were Christians. This country, in my 64 years, always respected the right of atheists to be atheists. Many of my best friends do not believe in God, and we respect each other's beliefs because our friendship is based on other common factors. But, now some non-believers want reference to God removed from our civil documents and civil buildings. No one ever forced any non-believer to believe, or made any issue of it. So, now, why should those same non-believers wish to backtrack and exclude the words relating to God just because they are there and they are suddenly insulted.... for the majority that do adhere to belief in God. Can't it be recognized and accepted by non believers that this country was founded on the Christian-Judeo belief that there is a God. Accept it, respect it, and feel free to not believe in God, as your right, and justhope they respect your non-belief, and move on to other issues like the poor, and racial profiling and hatred, and dozens of other issues that truly impact and divide people.</p>


    jmike... did you ever have a friend that, once they found out that you didn't believe in God, broke your friendship for that reason? If you did, I'm sorry for that. Yet, there are people who won't accept a friend because of their color, or because they are in a lowereconomic stature. </p>


    [/quote]

    Not saying the words doesn't work. By putting it into the pledge of allegience, it says that in order to pledge allegience to the country of your choice you must believe in god. Therby forcing you to believe.

    Never said I didn't believe in god.
    [/quote]</p>


    My apologies, jmike, for my presumption.</p>


    I still can't agree... and it is, perhaps, just a matter of us living different experiences. When some of my friends didn't say the words, 'under God', it never struck me that they were any less American than me. Just that they didn't believe in God, and I did. I would still trust my back to them in a foxhole... both good Americans, fighting for America.... just with 2 different ideas about what awaited us if we died right there. That difference in beliefs doesn't define your love for your country</p>[/quote]

    I agree completely with you. Which is why I don't think those words should be there. That question of god to believe in or not should no come up when talking of alligence with one's country.

  6. #51906

    Re: Asian giant for HC

    [quote user="zimonami"][quote user="jmike"][quote user="zimonami"][quote user="jmike"][quote user="zimonami"]


    good stuff in here lately... worthy discussing</P>


    I was in catholic Grammar school when 'under' God' was introduced. They just advised us that we'd be including those words from then on. No further discussion was had. </P>


    When I went to High School, first day we were told that we'd say the P of A and that if you didn't want to say the words 'under God' you were welcome to omit those words. No further discussion was had. I noticed a few kids didn't include the words. It was no big deal and never was considered a problem, and everyone's choice of words was respected.</P>


    So, where's the problem? Do, or don't... but don't exclude the words for those who want them there.</P>


    [/quote]

    The problem is, that it seems in order to be part of the USA, you need to believe in god.
    [/quote]</P>


    I don't think I agree with you, jmike. Like I said before... 1960, 1st yr of Public HS... we were told to say the words, or not, as your choice. Nobody made a fuss. No one bothered the kids that didn't include the words and no one bothered the ones that did... and life went on with everyone recognizing that there were Christians, Jews, Atheists, etc. among us, and you were free to do as you wanted.</P>


    Now, just so happens that at the birth of this nation all the founding fathers, mostly Christians, agreed that belief in God was an essential part of our freedom and tenets, and God was ubiquitously included in most documents. However, there was always the separate Amendment that allowed freedom of religion. When I grew up it was understood that many had no religion and no belief in God... and that was their 'religious right'... to practice no religion. They were respected, their houses weren't bombed, they weren't tarred and feathered,and they weren't forced to ride in the back of the bus, like blacks were... most of whom were Christians. This country, in my 64 years, always respected the right of atheists to be atheists. Many of my best friends do not believe in God, and we respect each other's beliefs because our friendship is based on other common factors. But, now some non-believers want reference to God removed from our civil documents and civil buildings. No one ever forced any non-believer to believe, or made any issue of it. So, now, why should those same non-believers wish to backtrack and exclude the words relating to God just because they are there and they are suddenly insulted.... for the majority that do adhere to belief in God. Can't it be recognized and accepted by non believers that this country was founded on the Christian-Judeo belief that there is a God. Accept it, respect it, and feel free to not believe in God, as your right, and justhope they respect your non-belief, and move on to other issues like the poor, and racial profiling and hatred, and dozens of other issues that truly impact and divide people.</P>


    jmike... did you ever have a friend that, once they found out that you didn't believe in God, broke your friendship for that reason? If you did, I'm sorry for that. Yet, there are people who won't accept a friend because of their color, or because they are in a lowereconomic stature. </P>


    [/quote]

    Not saying the words doesn't work. By putting it into the pledge of allegience, it says that in order to pledge allegience to the country of your choice you must believe in god. Therby forcing you to believe.

    Never said I didn't believe in god.
    [/quote]</P>


    My apologies, jmike, for my presumption.</P>


    I still can't agree... and it is, perhaps, just a matter of us living different experiences. When some of my friends didn't say the words, 'under God', it never struck me that they were any less American than me. Just that they didn't believe in God, and I did. I would still trust my back to them in a foxhole... both good Americans, fighting for America.... just with 2 different ideas about what awaited us if we died right there. That difference in beliefs doesn't define your love for your country</P>


    [/quote]</P>


    You've made me think about this, jmike... and, I have to say that I understand how you can have those feelings... It's just that I don't sgree with those people, so when they spout the crap that you have to believe in God to be a good American, I just tune them out. </P>


    People need to use some common sense. I tell a story for anyone having the patience to read it.</P>


    2nd grade, Catholic grammar school. One night I ask my Mom... a 7 day a week church goer... "The nun said that if you're not Catholic you won't go to heaven. Is that true?"</P>


    "You know Dr. Levine? (our Jewish neighbor, and our family doctor).</P>


    "Yes?"</P>


    "Is he a good man?", she asks.</P>


    "Yes!" I reply.</P>


    "Do think God would keep him out of heaven?"</P>


    "No"</P>


    "There's your answer", she said.</P>


    Case closed!</P>

  7. #51907
    Veteran
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    Re: Asian giant for HC

    [quote user="zimonami"][quote user="zimonami"][quote user="jmike"][quote user="zimonami"][quote user="jmike"][quote user="zimonami"]


    good stuff in here lately... worthy discussing</p>


    I was in catholic Grammar school when 'under' God' was introduced. They just advised us that we'd be including those words from then on. No further discussion was had. </p>


    When I went to High School, first day we were told that we'd say the P of A and that if you didn't want to say the words 'under God' you were welcome to omit those words. No further discussion was had. I noticed a few kids didn't include the words. It was no big deal and never was considered a problem, and everyone's choice of words was respected.</p>


    So, where's the problem? Do, or don't... but don't exclude the words for those who want them there.</p>


    [/quote]

    The problem is, that it seems in order to be part of the USA, you need to believe in god.
    [/quote]</p>


    I don't think I agree with you, jmike. Like I said before... 1960, 1st yr of Public HS... we were told to say the words, or not, as your choice. Nobody made a fuss. No one bothered the kids that didn't include the words and no one bothered the ones that did... and life went on with everyone recognizing that there were Christians, Jews, Atheists, etc. among us, and you were free to do as you wanted.</p>


    Now, just so happens that at the birth of this nation all the founding fathers, mostly Christians, agreed that belief in God was an essential part of our freedom and tenets, and God was ubiquitously included in most documents. However, there was always the separate Amendment that allowed freedom of religion. When I grew up it was understood that many had no religion and no belief in God... and that was their 'religious right'... to practice no religion. They were respected, their houses weren't bombed, they weren't tarred and feathered,and they weren't forced to ride in the back of the bus, like blacks were... most of whom were Christians. This country, in my 64 years, always respected the right of atheists to be atheists. Many of my best friends do not believe in God, and we respect each other's beliefs because our friendship is based on other common factors. But, now some non-believers want reference to God removed from our civil documents and civil buildings. No one ever forced any non-believer to believe, or made any issue of it. So, now, why should those same non-believers wish to backtrack and exclude the words relating to God just because they are there and they are suddenly insulted.... for the majority that do adhere to belief in God. Can't it be recognized and accepted by non believers that this country was founded on the Christian-Judeo belief that there is a God. Accept it, respect it, and feel free to not believe in God, as your right, and justhope they respect your non-belief, and move on to other issues like the poor, and racial profiling and hatred, and dozens of other issues that truly impact and divide people.</p>


    jmike... did you ever have a friend that, once they found out that you didn't believe in God, broke your friendship for that reason? If you did, I'm sorry for that. Yet, there are people who won't accept a friend because of their color, or because they are in a lowereconomic stature. </p>


    [/quote]

    Not saying the words doesn't work. By putting it into the pledge of allegience, it says that in order to pledge allegience to the country of your choice you must believe in god. Therby forcing you to believe.

    Never said I didn't believe in god.
    [/quote]</p>


    My apologies, jmike, for my presumption.</p>


    I still can't agree... and it is, perhaps, just a matter of us living different experiences. When some of my friends didn't say the words, 'under God', it never struck me that they were any less American than me. Just that they didn't believe in God, and I did. I would still trust my back to them in a foxhole... both good Americans, fighting for America.... just with 2 different ideas about what awaited us if we died right there. That difference in beliefs doesn't define your love for your country</p>


    [/quote]</p>


    You've made me think about this, jmike... and, I have to say that I understand how you can have those feelings... It's just that I don't sgree with those people, so when they spout the crap that you have to believe in God to be a good American, I just tune them out. </p>


    People need to use some common sense. I tell a story for anyone having the patience to read it.</p>


    2nd grade, Catholic grammar school. One night I ask my Mom... a 7 day a week church goer... "The nun said that if you're not Catholic you won't go to heaven. Is that true?"</p>


    "You know Dr. Levine? (our Jewish neighbor, and our family doctor).</p>


    "Yes?"</p>


    "Is he a good man?", she asks.</p>


    "Yes!" I reply.</p>


    "Do think God would keep him out of heaven?"</p>


    "No"</p>


    "There's your answer", she said.</p>


    Case closed!</p>[/quote]

    I don't think you do, but the pledge seems to. That is my point.

  8. #51908
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    Re: Asian giant for HC

    [quote user="bandwgn86"][quote user="SEC105"]

    So who's going to be the next Middle Eastern leader to be shown the door?</p>


    This guy?</p>


    </p>[/quote]when did Yakof Smirnof become a Middle Eastern leader?
    [/quote]No one lol'd at my Yakof joke?... have you all forgotten Night Court?

  9. #51909
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    Re: Asian giant for HC

    [quote user="bandwgn86"][quote user="SEC105"]

    So who's going to be the next Middle Eastern leader to be shown the door?</p>


    This guy?</p>


    </p>[/quote]when did Yakof Smirnof become a Middle Eastern leader?
    [/quote]No one lol'd at my Yakof joke?... have you all forgotten Night Court?

  10. #51910
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    Re: Asian giant for HC

    Oops sorry double posts

    I think we got a little caught up with the god angle. I'll repost this article for JMike.
    http://life.nationalpost.com/2011/02...rtain-classes/

    Basically what it is we are saying should not happen

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