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Thread: DE or WR in the 1st

  1. #31
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
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    Re: DE or WR in the 1st

    [quote user="B&RWarrior"]The guys been in the league for about 8 years now. It's not hard to put together a 5 minute highight reel for almost any 8 year vet, let alone a pro bowler. It doesn't mean he's a good run defender. [/quote]

    Theres a ton more video of him playing great against the run. He is absolutely a solid run defender.

    Over his career Osi has consistently been a liabilty versus the run.
    absolutely false.

    His favorite edge rushing move usually takes him out of any running play. The last couple of years he has sacraficed some of the edge he can get with his outside move to defend running lanes.
    False again. Upfield rush is not a liability against the run. His "gap" is the outside of the tackle. Hes not supposed to two gap on the tackle and take both inside and outside.

    Osi has been benched because of his lack of run defense support. It's not from an inability to play the run in my opinion it is because he values sacks more than solid run defense. As he put it sacks and his edge rush move is where he "butters his bread".
    He was benched because a horrible D-coordinator decided he wanted the DEs two-gapping and playing head up on a tackle. That and then the stupid 50 front. Just an awful defensive system for the players the giants have.

    I don't think that I and other Giants fans that don't think Osi is a good run defender are wrong. I think the problem is I watched Strahan- arguably the best run defending DE in the history of the NFL- all those years defend the run and I hold Osi to that standard, which is unfair. Still at best he's average versus the run.
    Average against the run doesnt mean hes a liability against it. There are plenty of DEs far worse against the run than Osi.

  2. #32
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    Re: DE or WR in the 1st

    [quote user="B&RWarrior"][quote user="Morehead State"]

    [quote user="Spizi"][quote user="NYG4lifeNYK"][quote user="Brandon jacobs"]Osi is easily negated by the run and gets taken out of the game easily. need a guy who can get around the end and stretch the line out and help allow a DE blitz or LB blitz.[/quote]

    Oh yea? We are back on that fallacy again are we?


    Go ahead and watch this Osi video for me and for yourself.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nlKDo_m694
    [/quote] This is why people shouldn't pretend to be message board GMs. They hear one thing from these supposed "experts" on tv and then they form their opinions around that. Unless you have watched extensive tape on a player exclusively, then don't comment on their play because chances are you don't know ****. That video clearly shows that Osi CAN play the run.[/quote]




    Lets me translate what you just said......




    "You guys think your smarter than JR and actually have no idea about these players and have no basis to give an opinion....BTW....here's my opinion..........."




    *




    Its a football message board.* giving our two bit opinions is what its all about.* Your "holier than thou" attitude is misplaced.

    [/quote]

    The guys been in the league for about 8 years now. It's not hard to put together a 5 minute highight reel for almost any 8 year vet, let alone a pro bowler. It doesn't mean he's a good run defender.

    Over his career Osi has consistently been a liabilty versus the run. His favorite edge rushing move usually takes him out of any running play. The last couple of years he has sacraficed some of the edge he can get with his outside move to defend running lanes.

    This isn't an argument. Osi has been benched because of his lack of run defense support. It's not from an inability to play the run in my opinion it is because he values sacks more than solid run defense. As he put it sacks and his edge rush move is where he "butters his bread".

    I don't think that I and other Giants fans that don't think Osi is a good run defender are wrong. I think the problem is I watched Strahan- arguably the best run defending DE in the history of the NFL- all those years defend the run and I hold Osi to that standard, which is unfair. Still at best he's average versus the run.[/quote]

    He was benched because Sheridan wanted him to be a two gap de and line head up on the LT. Obviously, this was an awful idea.

  3. #33
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    Re: DE or WR in the 1st

    [quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="NYG4lifeNYK"][quote user="Brandon jacobs"]Osi is easily negated by the run and gets taken out of the game easily. need a guy who can get around the end and stretch the line out and help allow a DE blitz or LB blitz.[/quote]

    Oh yea? We are back on that fallacy again are we?


    Go ahead and watch this Osi video for me and for yourself.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nlKDo_m694
    [/quote]

    I applaud you sir. Also love the "Osi only is a speed rusher"... Of course 1:35 in the video would show otherwise...[/quote]

    Lol gotta love all the fallacies on this board..... the only other player as great as Osi that gets so much heat is Eli.

    I love the people that criticize osi but have a man crush on Freeney.. guy has never even recorded more than 41 tackles... he only averages something like 28-29 tackles a season..

    Osi averages about 42 and didn't even start his first two seasons.
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  4. #34
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    Re: DE or WR in the 1st

    [quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="B&RWarrior"]The guys been in the league for about 8 years now. It's not hard to put together a 5 minute highight reel for almost any 8 year vet, let alone a pro bowler. It doesn't mean he's a good run defender. [/quote]

    Theres a ton more video of him playing great against the run. He is absolutely a solid run defender.

    Over his career Osi has consistently been a liabilty versus the run.
    absolutely false.

    His favorite edge rushing move usually takes him out of any running play. The last couple of years he has sacraficed some of the edge he can get with his outside move to defend running lanes.
    False again. Upfield rush is not a liability against the run. His "gap" is the outside of the tackle. Hes not supposed to two gap on the tackle and take both inside and outside.

    Osi has been benched because of his lack of run defense support. It's not from an inability to play the run in my opinion it is because he values sacks more than solid run defense. As he put it sacks and his edge rush move is where he "butters his bread".
    He was benched because a horrible D-coordinator decided he wanted the DEs two-gapping and playing head up on a tackle. That and then the stupid 50 front. Just an awful defensive system for the players the giants have.

    I don't think that I and other Giants fans that don't think Osi is a good run defender are wrong. I think the problem is I watched Strahan- arguably the best run defending DE in the history of the NFL- all those years defend the run and I hold Osi to that standard, which is unfair. Still at best he's average versus the run.
    Average against the run doesnt mean hes a liability against it. There are plenty of DEs far worse against the run than Osi.[/quote]

    Agreed with everything.


    Also another reason Osi was benched is because Sheridan was grasping at straws trying to save his job. Osi was a scapegoat of the defense that year. That's when everyone claimed Osi became a "cancer" ..... [:|]
    ALL IN!!!!!!!!

    I'm ALL IN are you?

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  5. #35
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Re: DE or WR in the 1st



    [quote user="NYG4lifeNYK"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="B&RWarrior"]The guys been in the league for about 8 years now. It's not hard to put together a 5 minute highight reel for almost any 8 year vet, let alone a pro bowler. It doesn't mean he's a good run defender. [/quote] Theres a ton more video of him playing great against the run. He is absolutely a solid run defender.
    Over his career Osi has consistently been a liabilty versus the run.
    absolutely false.
    His favorite edge rushing move usually takes him out of any running play. The last couple of years he has sacraficed some of the edge he can get with his outside move to defend running lanes.
    False again. Upfield rush is not a liability against the run. His "gap" is the outside of the tackle. Hes not supposed to two gap on the tackle and take both inside and outside.
    Osi has been benched because of his lack of run defense support. It's not from an inability to play the run in my opinion it is because he values sacks more than solid run defense. As he put it sacks and his edge rush move is where he "butters his bread".
    He was benched because a horrible D-coordinator decided he wanted the DEs two-gapping and playing head up on a tackle. That and then the stupid 50 front. Just an awful defensive system for the players the giants have.
    I don't think that I and other Giants fans that don't think Osi is a good run defender are wrong. I think the problem is I watched Strahan- arguably the best run defending DE in the history of the NFL- all those years defend the run and I hold Osi to that standard, which is unfair. Still at best he's average versus the run.
    Average against the run doesnt mean hes a liability against it. There are plenty of DEs far worse against the run than Osi.[/quote]

    Agreed with everything.


    Also another reason Osi was benched is because Sheridan was grasping at straws trying to save his job. Osi was a scapegoat of the defense that year. That's when everyone claimed Osi became a "cancer" ..... [:|]
    [/quote]




    You guys drive me nuts.




    Osi is a part time player right now. Tuck and JPP are the starting DE's. Osi spells those guys and plays in the passing down package.




    He is not a full time, complete DE. Its not just Sheridan, its Fewell as well and by extension of both its Tom Coughlin.




    Yes Osi can play the run, when he feels like it. (which is every once in a while) and when he gets off this rediculous tendancy to play without dicipline. (which is more than every once in a while)

    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  6. #36
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    Re: DE or WR in the 1st

    [quote user="Morehead State"]

    [quote user="NYG4lifeNYK"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="B&RWarrior"]The guys been in the league for about 8 years now. It's not hard to put together a 5 minute highight reel for almost any 8 year vet, let alone a pro bowler. It doesn't mean he's a good run defender. [/quote] Theres a ton more video of him playing great against the run. He is absolutely a solid run defender.
    Over his career Osi has consistently been a liabilty versus the run.
    absolutely false.
    His favorite edge rushing move usually takes him out of any running play. The last couple of years he has sacraficed some of the edge he can get with his outside move to defend running lanes.
    False again. Upfield rush is not a liability against the run. His "gap" is the outside of the tackle. Hes not supposed to two gap on the tackle and take both inside and outside.
    Osi has been benched because of his lack of run defense support. It's not from an inability to play the run in my opinion it is because he values sacks more than solid run defense. As he put it sacks and his edge rush move is where he "butters his bread".
    He was benched because a horrible D-coordinator decided he wanted the DEs two-gapping and playing head up on a tackle. That and then the stupid 50 front. Just an awful defensive system for the players the giants have.
    I don't think that I and other Giants fans that don't think Osi is a good run defender are wrong. I think the problem is I watched Strahan- arguably the best run defending DE in the history of the NFL- all those years defend the run and I hold Osi to that standard, which is unfair. Still at best he's average versus the run.
    Average against the run doesnt mean hes a liability against it. There are plenty of DEs far worse against the run than Osi.[/quote]

    Agreed with everything.


    Also another reason Osi was benched is because Sheridan was grasping at straws trying to save his job. Osi was a scapegoat of the defense that year. That's when everyone claimed Osi became a "cancer" ..... [:|]
    [/quote]




    You guys drive me nuts.




    Osi is a part time player right now.* Tuck and JPP are the starting DE's.* Osi spells those guys and plays in the passing down package.




    He is not a full time, complete DE.* Its not just Sheridan, its Fewell as well and by extension of both its Tom Coughlin.




    Yes Osi can play the run, when he feels like it. (which is every once in a while) and when he gets off this rediculous tendancy to play without dicipline. (which is more than every once in a while)

    [/quote]

    And before that, kiwi was a part time player behind Osi and tuck. And before that, tuck was a part time player behind osi and strahan.

    He just isn't better than jpp so of course he isn't a starter. That fact is not an indication that he is either good or bad against the run. It means jpp is better than osi.

  7. #37
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Re: DE or WR in the 1st

    [quote user="lawl"][quote user="Morehead State"]


    [quote user="NYG4lifeNYK"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="B&RWarrior"]The guys been in the league for about 8 years now. It's not hard to put together a 5 minute highight reel for almost any 8 year vet, let alone a pro bowler. It doesn't mean he's a good run defender. [/quote] Theres a ton more video of him playing great against the run. He is absolutely a solid run defender.
    Over his career Osi has consistently been a liabilty versus the run.
    absolutely false.
    His favorite edge rushing move usually takes him out of any running play. The last couple of years he has sacraficed some of the edge he can get with his outside move to defend running lanes.
    False again. Upfield rush is not a liability against the run. His "gap" is the outside of the tackle. Hes not supposed to two gap on the tackle and take both inside and outside.
    Osi has been benched because of his lack of run defense support. It's not from an inability to play the run in my opinion it is because he values sacks more than solid run defense. As he put it sacks and his edge rush move is where he "butters his bread".
    He was benched because a horrible D-coordinator decided he wanted the DEs two-gapping and playing head up on a tackle. That and then the stupid 50 front. Just an awful defensive system for the players the giants have.
    I don't think that I and other Giants fans that don't think Osi is a good run defender are wrong. I think the problem is I watched Strahan- arguably the best run defending DE in the history of the NFL- all those years defend the run and I hold Osi to that standard, which is unfair. Still at best he's average versus the run.
    Average against the run doesnt mean hes a liability against it. There are plenty of DEs far worse against the run than Osi.[/quote]

    Agreed with everything.


    Also another reason Osi was benched is because Sheridan was grasping at straws trying to save his job. Osi was a scapegoat of the defense that year. That's when everyone claimed Osi became a "cancer" ..... [:|]
    [/quote]




    You guys drive me nuts.




    Osi is a part time player right now. Tuck and JPP are the starting DE's. Osi spells those guys and plays in the passing down package.




    He is not a full time, complete DE. Its not just Sheridan, its Fewell as well and by extension of both its Tom Coughlin.




    Yes Osi can play the run, when he feels like it. (which is every once in a while) and when he gets off this rediculous tendancy to play without dicipline. (which is more than every once in a while)




    [/quote] And before that, kiwi was a part time player behind Osi and tuck. And before that, tuck was a part time player behind osi and strahan. He just isn't better than jpp so of course he isn't a starter. That fact is not an indication that he is either good or bad against the run. It means jpp is better than osi.[/quote]




    Osi has become nothing more than a pass rushing specialist. And he's good at it. But he's NOT a good all round player. Thats why he tends to only see the field on potential passing situations.




    All this grand praise for our third best DE.

    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  8. #38
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Re: DE or WR in the 1st



    And heres another reason we don't need Osi.




    When he comes in he moves JPP to the left side and Tuck to tackle. He moves two players out of position. JPP had his most impactful games when Osi was hurt and he could be a full time right DE, where he excels.




    So even for practical reasons, he's expendable.

    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  9. #39
    All-Pro gmen0820's Avatar
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    Re: DE or WR in the 1st

    [quote user="Morehead State"]

    And heres another reason we don't need Osi.




    When he comes in he moves JPP to the left side and Tuck to tackle.* He moves two players out of position.* JPP had his most impactful games when Osi was hurt and he could be a full time right DE, where he excels.




    So even for practical reasons, he's expendable.

    [/quote]Osi is a luxury when he does that.

    A third-fourth rounder is not as valuable as Osi.

  10. #40
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    Re: DE or WR in the 1st

    [quote user="Morehead State"]


    Osi has become nothing more than a pass rushing specialist.* And he's good at it.* But he's NOT a good all round player.* Thats why he tends to only see the field on potential passing situations.




    All this grand praise for our third best DE.

    [/quote]

    He only sees the field on passing plays because jpp is arguably the best de in the league, taking him out is silly. It has nothing to do with whether or not he is an all around player. It has everything to do with him not being as good as jpp.


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