+ Reply to Thread
Page 10 of 10 FirstFirst ... 8910
Results 91 to 99 of 99
  1. #91
    Veteran Ntegrase96's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    3,517

    Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

    [quote user="Bumm"]If you want to play that game, Eli had the best front 7 defense in the playoffs last year and faced some of the weakest defenses in the playoffs, NE and GB. His biggest challenge, an over-rated 49ers team with Alex Smith at QB.

    Ben on the other hand often faces Baltimore in the divisional or champoinship game with Ed Reed, Ray Lewis and Terrel Suggs and has a pretty good track record against them.

    And Elite playoff QB's also include the likes of Peyton, Brady, etc. Breese and Rogers haven't seen enough playoff time yet and their stats would have to be measured over the long term.[/quote]

    And Brady and Peyton have better playoff performances than Ben as well.

    But let's just look at Ben vs Eli in the playoffs.

    Eli:
    11 Games, 219 of 356, 61.5%, 2516 yards, 17 TDs, 8 ints, 7.07 YPA, 89.3 Rating, Record: 8-3

    Ben:
    14 Games, 248 of 409, 60.6%, 3,150, 20 TDs, 17 ints, 7.70 YPA, 83.7 rating, Record 10-4

    Overall pretty equal numbers, but Eli's better at protecting the ball than Roethlissberger.

    But as you've stated, Roth has faced tougher defenses for sure in his playoff path, so perhaps that's the reason for the discrepancy.

    So for now I'll say it's a push.





  2. #92
    All-Pro Drez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    13,669

    Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

    [quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="Bumm"]If you want to play that game, Eli had the best front 7 defense in the playoffs last year and faced some of the weakest defenses in the playoffs, NE and GB. His biggest challenge, an over-rated 49ers team with Alex Smith at QB.

    Ben on the other hand often faces Baltimore in the divisional or champoinship game with Ed Reed, Ray Lewis and Terrel Suggs and has a pretty good track record against them.

    And Elite playoff QB's also include the likes of Peyton, Brady, etc. Breese and Rogers haven't seen enough playoff time yet and their stats would have to be measured over the long term.[/quote]

    And Brady and Peyton have better playoff performances than Ben as well.

    But let's just look at Ben vs Eli in the playoffs.

    Eli:
    11 Games, 219 of 356, 61.5%, 2516 yards, 17 TDs, 8 ints, 7.07 YPA, 89.3 Rating, Record: 8-3

    Ben:
    14 Games, 248 of 409, 60.6%, 3,150, 20 TDs, 17 ints, 7.70 YPA, 83.7 rating, Record 10-4

    Overall pretty equal numbers, but Eli's better at protecting the ball than Roethlissberger.

    But as you've stated, Roth has faced tougher defenses for sure in his playoff path, so perhaps that's the reason for the discrepancy.


    So for now I'll say it's a push.




    [/quote]
    That might hold true for this past year, but does not hold for the '07 run or nearly any of our other playoff appearances with Eli.

    When we lost to the Panthers in '05 they had the 3rd ranked defense in both yards and scoring.

    In '06, the Eagles had an average defense, 15th in both measures. However, after a slow start, Eli did tie the game up with about a minute left in the fourth and the defense let the Jeff Garcia helmed Eagles march down the field a score a FG as time expired. IIRC, the defense even let up a 3rd and very long on that drive.

    For our '07 SB run we had to face the Bucs who were the 2nd ranked defense in yards and 3rd in points; Dallas
    was 9th in yards, 13th in points; GB was 11th in yards, 6th in points,
    and the Patriots were 4th in both yards and points. All of those games were road games, too. (The Steelers lost
    to the Jaguars in the WC round that year).

    When we lost to the Eagles in '08, they had the 3rd ranked defense in yards and 4th in points.

    And even for the teams we faced this year, the Falcons were a top 10 defense if I recall. The Niners defense was hardly anything but overrated. Eli got thoroughly abused that game and didn't miss a beat. The Packers though they gave up a lot of yards were middle of the pack in scoring defense. They were also amongst the best in the league at forcing turnovers, too.

    So, I don't think you can fairly say that Ben has faced tougher defenses in the playoffs just because he's had to face the Ravens a couple of times.

  3. #93

    Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

    He's good, but not Elite !

  4. #94
    All-Pro
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    9,564

    Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

    Speaking of quarterbacks I have a question for you NTG96. Alot of Cowboys fans seem to feel that since Romo has the better regular season numbers that he is the better quarterback then Eli and I feel 100% otherwise obviously. Do you have that opinion?

  5. #95
    All-Pro jomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    19,374

    Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

    Headache!
    No one remembers who came in second.

  6. #96
    Veteran Ntegrase96's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    3,517

    Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

    [quote user="n420p69"]Speaking of quarterbacks I have a question for you NTG96. Alot of Cowboys fans seem to feel that since Romo has the better regular season numbers that he is the better quarterback then Eli and I feel 100% otherwise obviously. Do you have that opinion?
    [/quote]


    Not really. Eli is quite a bit better than Romo at this point. For the most part they're equal in skill, but Romo seems to still be learning how to close and finish games which is something Eli learned in the 2007 playoffs. I mean, Eli's always had flashes of being a great quarterback in late games, but it wasn't until 2007 that he was able to put an end to the games like he had against Tennessee with 3 interceptions in the 4th, and the games against Minny when Sharper was still there.

    From a talent Standpoint, I'd say they rival each other in different categories. But as goofy as Eli looks, he's a much smarter quarterback than Romo-- and that's a huge part of playing the position.

    Romo is unfairly criticized, but this is what separates the two quarterbacks right now.


  7. #97
    All-Pro Sarcasman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Manussa Loka
    Posts
    6,237

    Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

    [quote user="Bumm"][quote user="Drez"][quote user="BlueBlooded1979"][quote user="Bumm"]1. Breese
    2, Brady
    3. Rogers
    4. Ben
    5. Peyton
    6. Eli

    Ben does more with less, Better over all stats than Eli. Beat an elite Colts team with Peyton in their house during 2005 playoffs.[/quote]

    Ben did less with more you mean. They had the number 1 defense and number 1 rushing attack in 2005. His best play that game was tackling Nick Harper.

    Ben is top ten because he manages to win games with a garbage OL. He has never carried that team.[/quote]
    I believe Ben has never made the playoffs if his defense is ranked under 5th in yards and/or points allowed.
    [/quote]

    Ben also plays in Baltimore's division. Eli in the NFC East has had an easier path to the playoffs.[/quote]

    Baltimore plays in Pittsburgh's division. Last time I checked, no one names a division after a team that occasionally wins the division. If anything the moniker would belong to the team that has won the division more often in recent years and that would be, not Baltimore.

  8. #98
    All-Pro Sarcasman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Manussa Loka
    Posts
    6,237

    Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

    [quote user="Bumm"][quote user="Drez"][quote user="Bumm"][quote user="Drez"][quote user="BlueBlooded1979"][quote user="Bumm"]1. Breese
    2, Brady
    3. Rogers
    4. Ben
    5. Peyton
    6. Eli

    Ben does more with less, Better over all stats than Eli. Beat an elite Colts team with Peyton in their house during 2005 playoffs.[/quote]

    Ben did less with more you mean. They had the number 1 defense and number 1 rushing attack in 2005. His best play that game was tackling Nick Harper.

    Ben is top ten because he manages to win games with a garbage OL. He has never carried that team.[/quote]
    I believe Ben has never made the playoffs if his defense is ranked under 5th in yards and/or points allowed.
    [/quote]

    Ben also plays in Baltimore's division. Eli in the NFC East has had an easier path to the playoffs.[/quote]
    You are still smoking that rock. The NFCE has consistently been one of the toughest divisions in football for years. The past two years have been the exception. IIRC, since Eli joined the Giants the NFCE has sent 3 teams to the playoffs twice and 2 teams an additional 4 times.

    So, yeah, the Steelers have to play the Ravens twice, but that also means they get to play the Browns and Bengals twice. Give me a ****ing break. I'll take that trade off everyday and twice on Sundays to not have to play the Eagles and Cowboys twice a year and now an improving Redskins team.

    Ignorant *** crackheads, I tell you.
    [/quote]

    Eagles, Redskins LOL, Cowboys most over hyped team in the league, not even in the Ravens class. Didn't Miami nearly beat them at home? Bengals were in the playoffs last season.[/quote]


    In recent years there is absolutely a case to be made that there may be some parity between the NFCE and the AFCN. It really depends on how far one wants to look back.

    That's the funny thing about statistics, they are generally directionally correct but rarely specifically correct particularly when viewed over extended periods of time.

  9. #99
    All-Pro Sarcasman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Manussa Loka
    Posts
    6,237

    Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

    [quote user="Bumm"][quote user="Ntegrase96"]If I were ranking the teams* of the NFCE and AFCN* over the last few years and not off of last year alone

    Giants and Steelers: Push
    Ravens
    Eagles/Cowboys (kind of a toss up depending on the year)
    Redskins/Bengals: Push


    Browns

    I'd say the NFCE is a tougher division to come out on top because the 'checks and balances' each team seems to have over another-- IE: Giants sweep Cowboys, Cowboys Sweep Redskins, Redskins sweep Giants, Giants split with Philly who swept both Dallas and Washington-- 5 and 1 in the east-- but Philly fails to win the division?

    And while there are 2 top teams in the AFCN, obviously Ben can only play against one because he's on the other. So the toughest divisional games he has are two games against Baltimore.

    The AFCN is top heavy, but that doesn't make it a harder path for Ben than Eli has with the NFCE.

    Eli is better. No. Doubt. About. It.


    [/quote]

    I'll give Eli his props as a clutch playoff QB but we're talking elite stats here. Eli had the benefit of a solid receiving corps plus one of the best front 7 on defense. Ben in the playoffs was without Pouncey, Mendenhall, Hampton, Clark, Keisel, Woodley, two starting tackles, and had two undrafted players at offensive gaurd. Eli wouldn't last behind that line but Ben still played with a high ankle sprain. Sorry, but Eli's success has come when he had more supporting cast in place, which he needs to win in the playoffs. Eli lost Plax and didn't repeat until after they drafted Nicks with a high draft choice, Ben won a Superbowl right after losing Plax, and he did it with receivers like Randel El and Cedric Wilson. No doubt Ben gets the nod here.[/quote]

    What nod?

    I think they're both elite (for what that meaningless and stupidly subjective term is worth) but I don't anyone in this thread actually proffered that Ben is a much better QB.

    I think Ben does some great things, I can see he and Eli being viewed comparatively.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts