Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

[Ntegrase96]

[quote user="THE_New_York_Giants"][quote user="Slunk3AM"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]

[quote user="Slunk3AM"]My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)[/quote]</p>


lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</p>[/quote]

Don't let your Cowboys hatred blind you. Romo is a good QB - if he can just not choke during important moments. I think he, Stafford, Rivers, and Ben are all quite close and can be interchanged with one another. In other words, I don't think Romo is that far better or worse to the point that it deserves additional attention.

Also, if you knew how to follow through reading, you will notice Peyton is only at 10 because I am unsure how he is gonna come out of that surgery... but that I am sure he'll be somewhere top 10 for sure.

It's okay, we can agree to disagree. I don't have to laugh at your opinion though just because I disagree with it. I think I left that part of me in high school.[/quote]
That's a big if because every time a moment in a game matters, Romo chokes. Romo is the only QB I can think of who can throw for 500 yards and still almost single handedly find a way to lose the game for his team.[/quote]

This is just not true. Romo never throws for 500 yards...


But seriously though. In the last 3 years Romo has been pretty good in clutch situations and late season as well. However, your statement describes the Jets game and Lions game to a tee. Other than that he had 4 gw drives this year, and had 2 more that special teams just didn't capitalize-- meaning he did his part in just as many 4th quarter performances in the regular season as Eli. Now I'm not comparing Romo to Eli in that respect-- I'm just pointing out that the biggest reason Romo seems like a choker is because the only time Romo is really put in the spotlight is when he fails. When he performs to the contraire of popular belief, it's not covered by the media nearly as extensively.

Of course, he still has the occasional boneheaded play every now and then, (more than I care for) but what QB doesn't?

[Ntegrase96]

[quote user="Bing Crosby"][quote user="Joe Morrison"]That's the game plan, what do you expect, just man up and stop him and stop whining.[/quote]

My point was that his "record setting season" came from the fact that they played a lot of games like ours. Defense just giving up and quieting. Sorry I'm not impressed by a guy who scores 510 yards on a team that has just stopped trying. Look at the schedule and realize that our D wasn't the only one that just gave up in his dome, and he simply isn't as impressive to me at least.</p>

And yeah, I played the game as a kid too. I get what your saying to a point, but honestly just beating a team into dust to make your numbers look God like well you throw in your "superdome" doesn't impress me. Sorry. Oh look he threw a 60 yard pass on a D that gave up when the score was 35-7. Yeah he is special alright.
</p>[/quote]

In that regard, would you commend Eli for putting up big numbers against the New Orleans defense that gave up after the game was secured?

[Ntegrase96]

[quote user="krygny"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]

[quote user="Slunk3AM"]My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)[/quote]</p>


lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</p>[/quote]
Really, ... Romo is a mediocre QB, at best. A mediocre QB in an age of elites. How many years has that offense been stacked with talent and he's done nothing with it? Nothing!! Romo is not a winner. I'd take Mark Sanchez before I'd take Romo. Sanchez may not be a winner either but I don't know that yet. I do know it about Romo.

Romo is a loser. LEH-HOO ... ZEH-HUR!! LOSER!!
[quote user="Slunk3AM"]...



Don't let your Cowboys hatred blind you. Romo is a good QB - if he can just not choke during important moments.

...[/quote]
<font color="#FF0000">Oh, okay then. We'll just pretend that never happens.</font>

[/quote]

I think age of Elites is incorrect. I think "golden age of hyperbole and high media coverage" would be a more apt description of the leauge today.

Imean, the Elite include Brady, Brees, Rodgers, maybe Peyton if he returns to form, and tentatively Eli, depending on who you ask. That's 5 guys. Of course, careers aren't over yet so it's hard to say exactly how many elite QBs there are in the league today, but as it stands there are 4 or 5 guys that are viewed as elite.

Compare that to years from the past... let's go with early 1994. Marino, Elway, Young, Aikman, Moon, Favre, Kelly, and Montana (albeit his later years, he still finished top 10 in most leaderboards). That's 7 elite hall of famers and one elite soon to be hall of famer.

Looking at today's quarterbacks with an honest assessment, how many quarterbacks can you really place in front of Romo that aren't elite? 2 or 3 at best (Berger, Rivers... and who else?)

Romo is probably the 8th best QB in the league. I can't really put him any higher, can't see him any lower since the criteria for Romo not being higher is 'he hasn't proven anything'. None of the other guys behind him have either (Stafford, Ryan, Cutler, Vick, etc...).

[DragonSoul]

probably 5-7... but I'm tired of beating a dead horse.

[SweetZombieJesus]

[quote user="Ntegrase96"]
However, your statement describes the Jets game and Lions game to a tee. Other than that he had 4 gw drives this year, and had 2 more that special teams just didn't capitalize-- meaning he did his part in just as many 4th quarter performances in the regular season as Eli. Now I'm not comparing Romo to Eli in that respect-- I'm just pointing out that the biggest reason Romo seems like a choker is because the only time Romo is really put in the spotlight is when he fails. When he performs to the contraire of popular belief, it's not covered by the media nearly as extensively. [/quote]

I know you said you're not trying to compare the two, but Eli had 5 comebacks (plus two more in the NFC CG and SB) and set the NFL record for 4th quarter TDs.

The problem with Romo is when he has the boneheaded play (such as at the end of a playoff game with the ball in his hands). And that when he gets his chance on stage, such as against the Giants for the division title, he shrivels. Can you tell me when he has risen to the occasion when the stakes are high? When does he deliver?

[flamethrower]

[quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="flamethrower"]Hate to say it, but he is Elite. Top 10. I personally place him at #5.
Drew Breez is #1
Aaron Rodgers is #2
Eli Manning is #3
Tom Brady is #4
Roethlisberger is #5
Matt Scaubb is #6 He would be higher, but can't stay healthy.
Matt Stafford is #7
Then you have a Huuuge drop off.
[/quote]

I know you're a Texans fan and all, but do you really believe Matt Schaub is the 6th best QB in the league?
[/quote]Yes I do. As far as Peyton Manning. If he plays at the level that he used to then he is the top QB in the League. But, I am speaking from experience on neck surgeries. Having had the same exact surgery that Peyton had. He won't be the same. But, if I am wrong. I am man enough to come back, and eat crow on this statement.

[JPP]

[quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="krygny"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]

[quote user="Slunk3AM"]My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)[/quote]</p>


lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</p>[/quote]
Really, ... Romo is a mediocre QB, at best. A mediocre QB in an age of elites. How many years has that offense been stacked with talent and he's done nothing with it? Nothing!! Romo is not a winner. I'd take Mark Sanchez before I'd take Romo. Sanchez may not be a winner either but I don't know that yet. I do know it about Romo.

Romo is a loser. LEH-HOO ... ZEH-HUR!! LOSER!!
[quote user="Slunk3AM"]...



Don't let your Cowboys hatred blind you. Romo is a good QB - if he can just not choke during important moments.

...[/quote]
<font color="#FF0000">Oh, okay then. We'll just pretend that never happens.</font>

[/quote]

I think age of Elites is incorrect. I think "golden age of hyperbole and high media coverage" would be a more apt description of the leauge today.

Imean, the Elite include Brady, Brees, Rodgers, maybe Peyton if he returns to form, and tentatively Eli, depending on who you ask. That's 5 guys. Of course, careers aren't over yet so it's hard to say exactly how many elite QBs there are in the league today, but as it stands there are 4 or 5 guys that are viewed as elite.

Compare that to years from the past... let's go with early 1994. Marino, Elway, Young, Aikman, Moon, Favre, Kelly, and Montana (albeit his later years, he still finished top 10 in most leaderboards). That's 7 elite hall of famers and one elite soon to be hall of famer.

Looking at today's quarterbacks with an honest assessment, how many quarterbacks can you really place in front of Romo that aren't elite? 2 or 3 at best (Berger, Rivers... and who else?)

Romo is probably the 8th best QB in the league. I can't really put him any higher, can't see him any lower since the criteria for Romo not being higher is 'he hasn't proven anything'. None of the other guys behind him have either (Stafford, Ryan, Cutler, Vick, etc...).



[/quote]

I can agree with this for the most part, he isn't bad necessarily he just isn't in the Elite. But what has really happened is all the media coverage he used to garner when you guys were making the playoffs and he was boy wonder is coming back to bite him on the ***. Now all the media heads that bumped him up so much are dragging him down because he didn't live up to expectations and win you guys a couple SB already. So it is a little ridiculous because as much as we like to think winning is everything, and it usually does solve most problems, there are many great QB's with no championships who are still great not everybody meets the right circumstances and gets to go win championships. I think the question would be if he was in Roethlisberger's shoes would he have won as much? Or viceversa would the Cowboys be a better team or be more productive in the post season with a different QB?

[Ntegrase96]

[quote user="SweetZombieJesus"][quote user="Ntegrase96"]
However, your statement describes the Jets game and Lions game to a tee. Other than that he had 4 gw drives this year, and had 2 more that special teams just didn't capitalize-- meaning he did his part in just as many 4th quarter performances in the regular season as Eli. Now I'm not comparing Romo to Eli in that respect-- I'm just pointing out that the biggest reason Romo seems like a choker is because the only time Romo is really put in the spotlight is when he fails. When he performs to the contraire of popular belief, it's not covered by the media nearly as extensively. [/quote]

I know you said you're not trying to compare the two, but Eli had 5 comebacks (plus two more in the NFC CG and SB) and set the NFL record for 4th quarter TDs.

The problem with Romo is when he has the boneheaded play (such as at the end of a playoff game with the ball in his hands). And that when he gets his chance on stage, such as against the Giants for the division title, he shrivels. Can you tell me when he has risen to the occasion when the stakes are high? When does he deliver?
[/quote]

When the stakes are high? Well the stakes haven't really been high lately, as this marks the second year in a row that we've missed the playoffs. But in clutch situations he's improved. I would say the biggest example of that would have been against SF early in the season.

Yeah, my intent wasn't to compare him to Eli (I thought Eli had 6 game winning drives last season). But rather to point out that Romo is capable of performing well in clutch situations, and is comparable to the other QBs in his respective tier.

[Ntegrase96]

[quote user="JPP"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="krygny"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]

[quote user="Slunk3AM"]My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)[/quote]</p>


lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</p>[/quote]
Really, ... Romo is a mediocre QB, at best. A mediocre QB in an age of elites. How many years has that offense been stacked with talent and he's done nothing with it? Nothing!! Romo is not a winner. I'd take Mark Sanchez before I'd take Romo. Sanchez may not be a winner either but I don't know that yet. I do know it about Romo.

Romo is a loser. LEH-HOO ... ZEH-HUR!! LOSER!!
[quote user="Slunk3AM"]...



Don't let your Cowboys hatred blind you. Romo is a good QB - if he can just not choke during important moments.

...[/quote]
<font color="#ff0000">Oh, okay then. We'll just pretend that never happens.</font>

[/quote]

I think age of Elites is incorrect. I think "golden age of hyperbole and high media coverage" would be a more apt description of the leauge today.

Imean, the Elite include Brady, Brees, Rodgers, maybe Peyton if he returns to form, and tentatively Eli, depending on who you ask. That's 5 guys. Of course, careers aren't over yet so it's hard to say exactly how many elite QBs there are in the league today, but as it stands there are 4 or 5 guys that are viewed as elite.

Compare that to years from the past... let's go with early 1994. Marino, Elway, Young, Aikman, Moon, Favre, Kelly, and Montana (albeit his later years, he still finished top 10 in most leaderboards). That's 7 elite hall of famers and one elite soon to be hall of famer.

Looking at today's quarterbacks with an honest assessment, how many quarterbacks can you really place in front of Romo that aren't elite? 2 or 3 at best (Berger, Rivers... and who else?)

Romo is probably the 8th best QB in the league. I can't really put him any higher, can't see him any lower since the criteria for Romo not being higher is 'he hasn't proven anything'. None of the other guys behind him have either (Stafford, Ryan, Cutler, Vick, etc...).



[/quote]

I can agree with this for the most part, he isn't bad necessarily he just isn't in the Elite. But what has really happened is all the media coverage he used to garner when you guys were making the playoffs and he was boy wonder is coming back to bite him on the ***. Now all the media heads that bumped him up so much are dragging him down because he didn't live up to expectations and win you guys a couple SB already. So it is a little ridiculous because as much as we like to think winning is everything, and it usually does solve most problems, there are many great QB's with no championships who are still great not everybody meets the right circumstances and gets to go win championships. I think the question would be if he was in Roethlisberger's shoes would he have won as much? Or viceversa would the Cowboys be a better team or be more productive in the post season with a different QB?[/quote]

I think Romo would have been able to help the Steelers win just as many superbowls as berger, but maybe not the same years.

On the flip side, I don't think Roethlissberger could have won anything here. The Cowboys have lacked a championship caliber defense since they were winning championships. Romo has been a problem in a few past years, but our defense has never been good enough to hold a true playoff contender in check.

[Ntegrase96]

[quote user="flamethrower"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="flamethrower"]Hate to say it, but he is Elite. Top 10. I personally place him at #5.
Drew Breez is #1
Aaron Rodgers is #2
Eli Manning is #3
Tom Brady is #4
Roethlisberger is #5
Matt Scaubb is #6 He would be higher, but can't stay healthy.
Matt Stafford is #7
Then you have a Huuuge drop off.
[/quote]

I know you're a Texans fan and all, but do you really believe Matt Schaub is the 6th best QB in the league?
[/quote]Yes I do. As far as Peyton Manning. If he plays at the level that he used to then he is the top QB in the League. But, I am speaking from experience on neck surgeries. Having had the same exact surgery that Peyton had. He won't be the same. But, if I am wrong. I am man enough to come back, and eat crow on this statement.
[/quote]

Disregarding Manning, what about Rivers, Romo, or maybe even Stafford? They rank below Schaub?

I only ask because Schaub's numbers just don't stack up to the first two guys, and he hasn't really proven anything either (something Romo is frequently criticized for).